Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is proposed to take No. 11a, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; No. 11b, Companies Bill 2012 - Financial Resolution; No. 3a, Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2013 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. today and shall adjourn not later than 10 p.m.; the sitting shall be suspended at 2.42 p.m. until 3.42 p.m. today; Nos. 11a and 11b shall be decided without debate; the proceedings in regard to Second Stage of No. 3a shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10 p.m. tonight; the Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 4 p.m.; there shall be no Order of Business within the meaning of Standing Order 26 and, accordingly, the business to be transacted shall be as follows: the Financial Resolution on the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2013, shall be taken without debate; Committee and Remaining Stages of that Bill shall be taken and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social Protection.

The Dáil on its rising tomorrow shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 5 November 2013.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are five proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. tonight and shall suspend from 2.42 p.m. until 3.42 p.m. agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 11a and 11b agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 3a agreed to?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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No. The Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2013 is lengthy and complex legislation. It was published only 36 hours ago. Since its publication, the Bills Office has been in contact with my office in regard to proposed amendments because the Bill will progress to Committee and Remaining Stages immediately on conclusion of Second Stage.

The Tánaiste will be aware that more than 1 million people in this country are directly or indirectly dependent on social welfare. This complex legislation will have serious consequences for many of those people. For example, the Bill proposes to slash jobseeker's benefit for the under 25s.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot go into the detail of the Bill now. He may only deal now with the arrangements.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It also abolishes the bereavement grant and free telephone allowance. These measures will have the most profound consequences for some of the most vulnerable people in this country. Why the rush? In the lead up to the last general election, when the Labour Party was in opposition, it proposed, as part of Dáil reform, that there be an interval between the different Stages of legislation so that people would have an opportunity to reflect on what was said on Second Stage. Why the rush to get this Bill through all Stages by 4 p.m. tomorrow? It is still only October. These measures do not take effect until January. What is the rush? Is this the democratic revolution we were promised prior to the election?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste and his Labour and Fine Gael colleagues have introduced what can only be described as a disgraceful budget. Consequential on this they are now bringing forward a disgraceful Social Welfare and Pensions Bill, which at the end of the day is yet another open invitation to young Irish people to leave these shores in their tens of thousands. The Government promised there would be no interference with core social welfare payments but it has broken that promise, as evidenced by the facts contained in this proposed legislation.

On promised Dáil reform, how does the proposal to guillotine the Second Stage debate on the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2013 at 10 p.m. tonight and to guillotine all of the Remaining Stages tomorrow sit with the commitment of the Government to Dáil reform? It is the direct opposite. It represents the worst practices of the past. I appeal to members to revisit this. The guillotine should be lifted and proper debate should be allowed.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Bill is relatively short.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Short and sharp.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It is complex legislation.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It contains only 15 sections. Its content has been known since the budget was announced. A total of 13 hours has been provided for debate on the Bill, 7.5 for the Second Stage debate and 5.5 hours for Committee and Remaining Stages. I understand that the Whip will meet following the Order of Business to discuss with the Opposition spokespersons a timetable in regard to the taking of the different sections, which is a sensible way of allocating the time. The amount of time allocated for debate on the Bill is adequate to deal with a Bill of 15 sections.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste should tell that to his constituents.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Tánaiste really believe that?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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All of the arguments that need to be made can be made in that time. We are open to a division of time in relation to the taking of different sections and so on. That matter will be discussed by the Whips following the Order of Business.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Labour Party would never have taken that position when in opposition.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must now put the question.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I must object.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will not object to anything. He will resume his seat.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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This is directly contrary to-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat, Deputy.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I am entitled to raise a point of order.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will have a democratic vote now.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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This is dictatorship and Gestapo tactics.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am putting the question.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is trying to ram through the legislation. This is dictatorship and you are part of it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy O'Dea, I take grave exception. You got your time to explain why you should get more time. Do not drag me into this argument. I then put the question. If the Deputy reads the Standing Order he is entitled to a very short explanation. Withdraw that remark.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Apologise.

Deputies:

Withdraw the remark.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Withdraw that remark please.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I formally withdraw it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not taking that sort of abuse from you or anybody else.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Remember that.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for the sitting and business of the Dáil tomorrow agreed?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are not in favour of what is proposed for tomorrow. We have already outlined why we believe the Committee Stage of the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill should be delayed until after next week so that there is sufficient reflection on the Second Stage debate. The question to be put to the Dáil tomorrow requires that only amendments prepared and put by the Minister can be voted upon. In a very stark way that illustrates the paucity of genuine engagement that will occur on the Bill. The Tánaiste was on this side of the House and the general public were promised a lot in terms of Dáil reform. We were promised a pre-legislative phase for Bills, which will not happen with this Bill.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy's party promised a soft landing too.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Above all there should be a separation between the Second Stage and the Committee Stage of a Bill if we are serious about it. The fact that Committee Stage will be rammed through tomorrow will mean that no amendments, ideas or change will be entertained.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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That is not true.

A Deputy:

Another power grab.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the obvious implication of what is to happen tomorrow. Given that the measures will not take effect until January, there is no imperative for us to proceed as proposed tomorrow. The Government wants to ram this through as quickly as possible to shut down dissent and stop the negative publicity that may arise from the Bill in the hope that people will forget about it in due course.

A Deputy:

A power grab.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, we do not need the chorus.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The proposal before us is neither required nor appropriate. The Tánaiste spoke earlier about the number of hours. It is not anyone's role or reserve to make a judgment as to what hours are required. It should be open to the House to deal with any legislation in a proper, calm and measured way. Let us consider the Tánaiste's record of opposition to guillotines in this House over many years. There is no consistency between the position he adopted as an Opposition party leader and that which he is now supporting and advocating in government. The Social Welfare and Pensions Bill is before us much earlier than has been the case heretofore. There is no requirement for the guillotine to apply and, of course, the Government already knows it is wholly inappropriate. We will be opposing it.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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As I said earlier, a total of 13 hours have been provided for the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill. That contrasts with what Deputy Martin's party provided-----

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Government parties promised to be different. They promised change.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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----- in 2010, which was six hours and 15 minutes.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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What year was that?

Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Dooley can forget about the past.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Government Deputies were out canvassing and did not have time to come in here and speak.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Minister for Social Protection tells me she offered the Opposition more time and they turned it down.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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That is not true.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There will be plenty of time with 13 hours.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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She also says a lot about what she does not say to the Tánaiste.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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One cannot believe everything she says.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Thirteen hours is plenty of time for Fianna Fáil to tell us where it would get €1.7 billion extra in cuts in the social welfare budget.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is plenty of time for Sinn Féin to tell us where it would get the 37% reduction it would have to apply in social welfare.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Finally, is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising tomorrow shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 5 November 2013 agreed to? Agreed.