Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

8. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will ensure the Environmental Protection Agency incorporates the evidence of people adversely impacted by hydraulic fracturing in other jurisdictions in its terms of reference for its proposed report on fracking. [44983/13]

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

13. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will arrange for an independent expert report on the economics of hydraulic fracturing as an input into the decision on whether to ban fracking. [44982/13]

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The objective of the Environmental Protection Agency's research is to establish if shale gas exploration involving the use of hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, can be carried out in a manner that will not cause significant environmental pollution, to identify all possible environmental risks associated with fracking, to ascertain if these risks are manageable and to identify best practice with respect to environmental protection for the use of hydraulic fracturing technique for the exploration and extraction of shale gas. It is essential.

Everybody on both sides of the House would agree that everything must be considered. It can only happen, if it can ever happen, if it is deemed to be environmentally safe. It is vital that the full spectrum of potential environmental and human health issues is independently considered, and the results of scientific research must be published. That is the sole and only objective of this proposition from the EPA. It will be 2015 at least before we have those results, but when we do, we can have a full and proper debate based on all the facts in all jurisdictions where fracking is taking place.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We touched on this point earlier because we did not realise that the Leas-Cheann Comhairle would do such an effective job chairing this debate as to bring us to this point.

I am satisfied to hear what the Minister of State says but unfortunately he did not say "yes, I will". There are people in other jurisdictions who say their water has been damaged, there has been gas build-up in their houses, they are not happy with this thing and the gas companies are trying to buy their silence. They are jumping up and down, as it were, and saying fracking has damaged them. Will the Minister of State ask the EPA to ensure the views of such people are incorporated into the environmental impact study? If they are not, nobody in the report will have any credibility because those people will still jump up and down and shout loudly that they were damaged by hydraulic fracturing but no one ever asked them about it.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

For the sake of absolute clarity, the EPA will study many different countries, as the Deputy knows, including two European countries, at least one in which there has been a ban on hydraulic fracturing. It will assimilate all the evidence available. There is no issue about establishing facts and this involves only facts, not hearsay or what one might see on a television programme. It is a study of science. That is what we are about.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the EPA talk to these people?

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This process is completely open and transparent. It was open to anybody in this country to comment. The comments have been listened to. They have been taken on board. The study will be objective and scientific.

There is another side to this debate. It is very clear that in America, for instance, the economy has been transformed by shale gas. The benefit to each individual taxpayer or household in America is of the order of $1,500 per annum. That is what they are saving from the reduction in energy costs. That is a fact.

The environmental and health aspects must have primacy. We are committed to that on this side of the House. Let there be no doubt about that. I am happy this scientific analysis will take place, that it will be comprehensive, that it will consider all other jurisdictions and that every single citizen of this country, north, south, east or west, will have had a say. All submissions have been received and considered and we are about to go to the next stage in this process. It is a transparent, open process.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The evidence of people whose homes have been damaged is not hearsay, nor is it television drama. It may not be scientific data but it is not hearsay and the voices of those people deserve to be heard. If those voices are not heard and if they are smothered by a report that refers only to scientific data, it will find no acceptance in this State.

In response to the Minister of State's comment on the transformation of the economy of the United States, he should watch that space because I believe that fracking is a giant Ponzi scheme. The potential investors are onto it. They are trying to get their money out and the banks are pushing the companies to drill more and more in order that they can get their money back. It could be the next big busted flush.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State says that people have had their say but the problem is that the train is moving to the next station. When residents see in counties such as Clare that licensing options have been put in to cover practically the whole county, it is understandable that they are very concerned. The Minister of State says the US economy has been transformed-----

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It has.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----but some of that short-term gain has been at the expense of long-term, seriously worrying health and environmental damage. I am concerned that the EPA might spend time on a project such as this when the Minister of State's Department ignores the potential to transform our economy through the development of wind and wave energy. The Minister of State does not give anything like the same amount of resources to those energy sources.

There is scientific information about toxic substances in the air, the soil, the water and damage to underground water tables, so I do not see why the Minister for State must undertake further studies. The information is available but the Minister of State is not listening to it.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A recent United Nations Environment Programme report outlined some of the dangers posed to human and non-human life by the chemicals used in the fracking process. It pointed out:

Fracturing fluid consists of large amounts of water mixed with chemicals and sand. In most countries the chemicals used in fracking fluid are considered trade secrets ... If companies are not required to publicly disclose the full list of chemicals used, assessing potential short- and long-term impacts on public health will be difficult.

With regard to the American economy taking off on access to cheap gas, I remind the Minister of State of the Cree Indian saying that not until the white man has cut down every tree and poisoned every river will he realise that we cannot eat money.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We cannot have our debate here without energy or electricity. We cannot drive our cars without petrol or diesel. Let us stay in the real world. The real world from the Government perspective is that there is an independent study. It is independent of Government and everybody else, taking on board everybody in the country who had an opinion. That has all been put into the mix and out of that will come a scientific study that I will stand over, whatever the outcome. The Department will not influence it. The report will be what the EPA finds. It will be published and will come before this House and will be fully debated in committee. Nothing is hidden here, and nothing is being ignored.

We have to live in the real world. We have to examine all of the facts, which will speak for themselves. I will support those facts, whatever they are, but I do not exclude the possibility that the science will say A, B, C, D or E. I do not know what it will say but we cannot reject the fact, as Deputy Daly did, that in Ireland we deal with our energy. We have the third highest wind energy output in the European Union. The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, and I spend an awful lot of our time on renewable energy, wind and wave energy and so on. Let us have a real, practical and honest debate on this. Reading statements that sound good but do not make sense is not the way we will do business in this House. We will deal in facts alone.