Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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6. To ask the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government his plans to deal with the housing crisis which sees 110,000 families and individuals on the housing waiting list and ten new persons presenting to homeless services in Dublin each day; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44772/13]

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The Government's housing policy statement, published in June 2011, clearly identifies that the priority for Government will be to meet the most acute needs of households applying for social housing support.

I am determined to ensure that the social housing programme optimises the delivery of social housing and the return for the resources invested. To achieve this, it is essential that we tailor the use of available Exchequer supports to prevailing conditions and explore the full range of solutions to address housing needs.

The financial parameters within which we continue to operate rule out a return to large capital-funded construction programmes at least in the immediate future. The Government is committed to responding more quickly and on a larger scale to social housing support needs through a variety of mechanisms, including through increased provision of social housing.

In July 2012 I announced details of a three-year funding programme of €100 million to deliver 800 new units of voluntary and local authority-owned social housing. I am monitoring expenditure under my Department's housing programme for 2013, together with the level of contractual commitments extending into 2014, with a view to a decision later this year on approving some limited new construction and house purchases over the period to the end of 2014.

In addition to the €525.8 million in housing-programme expenditure provided for in my Department's Abridged Estimate for 2014, budget 2014 provides a further €50 million to fund infrastructural investment primarily in the housing area, including €30 million to recommence a State house-building programme, €10 million for an unfinished housing estate resolution project and €10 million for housing adaptation grants. When this is taken into account, funding for housing for next year is effectively maintained at 2013 levels.

Delivery of social housing continues to be significantly facilitated through more flexible funding models such as the rental accommodation scheme and leasing, but the Government is also committed to developing other funding mechanisms that will increase the supply of permanent new social housing. Such mechanisms include options to purchase, build to lease, and the sourcing of loan finance by approved housing bodies for construction and acquisition. In addition, my Department and the Housing Agency are engaged with NAMA to ensure continued delivery of housing units for social purposes. Approved housing bodies will also play a key role in 2014 in the delivery of social housing and in particular in its capacity to attract external financial investment.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

In spite of the current challenging circumstances, I expect the final output across all social housing programmes for 2013 to be in the region of 5,000 new housing units, and it is provisionally estimated that in the region of 5,000 units will be provided for social housing in 2014.

Statutory responsibility for the provision of accommodation and related services for homeless persons rests with the housing authorities. Work continues between central and local government and the voluntary sector to ensure the considerable moneys spent on services for the homeless are effectively and appropriately targeted.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Boyd Barrett. Let me explain that there is a minute for a supplementary question from the Deputy; a minute for a reply; a minute for a further supplementary question; and a minute for a final reply. So there are only six minutes per question.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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On a point of order-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no point of order, I am sorry.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is a point of order. I know this is Deputy Boyd Barrett's question.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is Deputy Boyd Barrett's question.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Why are the other housing questions not grouped together?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is the same subject. It is a huge issue facing the Department.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Could the Minister of State agree to group them together now?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am dealing with Deputy Boyd Barrett's question.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I put it to the Minister of State that her social housing policy is a total shambles and a disgrace. Earlier she mentioned 4,000 new social housing units, mostly through leasing arrangements where we are subsidising private landlords. That does not even cover half of the increase in the numbers on the housing list, which has now reached 110,000 families and individuals - it had been 100,000 and previously 96,000.

There is sleight of hand in the announcement of €30 million for 500 new houses. The figures in the expenditure report show that the other side of that coin is €15 million less for local authority housing, €15 million less for voluntary and co-operative housing and €2 million less for social housing improvement.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to put the question.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I could go on through the list. I want to ask one simple question.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please. You have one minute. You are over time.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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According to the Minister of State's figures, €30 million equates to 500 houses new houses.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will come back to the Deputy.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Just one second-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. I will come back to him.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Why can we not multiply that-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can the Deputy not see the clock?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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----- put €2 billion or €3 billion into building new social housing, save ourselves the rent allowance, house people on the housing list-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to sit down and I will come back to him.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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----- and put some building workers back to work?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Minister of State. I remind the Deputy to watch the clock and he will see his time.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I point out a simple fact: it takes quite some time to build a house. We need to use methods such as leasing in the short term in order to provide houses next year for people who are on the waiting list. We are starting a construction programme. We have finally stabilised the spending and are starting to increase the spending, which is quite an achievement, considering that we are coming out of an economic emergency where capital budgets over the past five years have had to be cut because of a previous Government's actions and neglect of our country.

We are now nearing the end of it and are coming out of the bailout. We have stabilised the funding. We have got some stimulus money and with the assistance of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform we are again starting a general construction programme, as many Deputies have called for.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Minister of State.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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Part of the delivery next year will be bringing voids back into use again - I know there are many of them particularly in the Dublin and Cork regions.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The situation is getting worse. I put a simple question to the Minister of State. According to her figures for the cost of building a new house - we were building 90,000 houses a year during the boom so she cannot say we cannot do it in a short time-----

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We do not want to do anything like that.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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To build 100,000 council houses according-----

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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And the waiting list was growing.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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To build 100,000 council houses would cost €6 billion. We would save €1 billion a year, according to the Minister of State's figures.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to put the question.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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She said €30 million for 500 houses.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I did not say that. Let me explain-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please. The Minister of State can reply later.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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So 100,000 houses would cost €6 billion and we would save approximately €1 billion a year in rent allowance payments and in the extra rental revenue that would come back to the State. On that basis we could even get the money from the European Investment Bank because we would pay for those houses-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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----- over a minimum of a ten-year period and then we would be into surplus as well as solving the housing crisis and we would put building workers back to work. Why can she not do that?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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First, the Deputy is using fairy-tale figures.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am using the Minister of State's figures.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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If the Deputy believes we could build that number of houses with that amount of money, I think he has another thing coming. Perhaps Deputy Wallace might enlighten him on the cost of building houses.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister of State said 500 houses for €30 million.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry-----

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I just explained that, but the Deputy was not listening. I explained the figure for next year is partly to do with bringing voids back into use, which can be done somewhat quicker than constructing. Generally speaking it will take at least a year to construct a housing development.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Fine. Then maybe it will go to 100,000.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Listen.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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That is why much of the money next year will be delivering through voids. As we move on - we hope we will get more stimulus money - we are developing and we will increase a house-construction programme. We are in a real world where capital budgets have had to be shrunk.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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A 12-year housing list.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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We are also carrying out an assessment of the waiting list. That list needs to be updated so we can get accurate figures. The Deputy should be happy that we are finally spending a little more money given that we have had to reduce it over the past five years.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I will be happy when I do not have people crying in my clinic over this.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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If Deputy Boyd Barrett had new solutions instead of fairy tale solutions, we might get somewhere.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle, can I ask-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, you cannot.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I am only asking why all the questions cannot be taken together. Questions Nos. 8, 10, 15, 28 and 70 should have been taken together.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not the Minister.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I know, but it amounts to excluding our questions. We have tabled questions on this matter.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I only chair the sessions.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister of State has no interest in a debate on housing.