Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State with responsibility for public transport, Deputy Alan Kelly, for being in the House this evening to take this important debate. Irish Rail stated that it needed to save money on energy costs and therefore it intended to reduce the capacity of DART trains at off-peak times. Unfortunately for commuters in Greystones and Bray and those along the DART line, the company has not kept to that commitment. We have seen commuter chaos in Greystones and Bray as Irish Rail reduces capacity at busy peak times.

The Minister of State is not responsible for minding Irish Rail on a day-to-day basis but I call on him to hear our concerns and take note of these problems. I also call on the Minister of State to ask Irish Rail to fulfil its commitments, adhere to some quality of service for commuters, who are already paying through the nose for the service, and to adhere to safety standards.

I will use the brief time available to me to put on the record excerpts from a diary I have received from a constituent who has been using the DART service. On 26 September, the constituent got the 6.30 p.m. DART train from Pearse Street station to Greystones, which was a four-carriage train. People were left on the platform as they could not board the train due to overcrowding. On 30 September on the same service, the 6.30 p.m. train from Pearse Street station to Greystones, again it was a four-carriage train and people were left on the platform. On 1 October in the opposite direction, the 7 a.m. DART train from Greystones to Malahide had four carriages and there was not enough capacity. On 2 October in the case of the 7 a.m. Greystones to Malahide train, on arrival passengers were told the train had been cancelled due to a problem with overhead lines. Then they were told to change platform and take the Rosslare train to Dublin. Only five minutes later they were told to get off the Rosslare train because all trains between Bray and Greystones were cancelled due to a problem with overhead lines. The commuters were told to use Dublin Bus services instead. On 14 October due to a DART dispute there were two-carriage trains. The diary goes on and on up to yesterday, when the DART train was delayed by eight minutes up to 10 a.m. The chaos is clear.

We need people in Greystones and Bray to use the DART service. It has been remarkably successful. People campaigned hard for the service. However, at the moment Irish Rail must get a grip on this. It should stop telling us one thing in its press releases and doing another in reality. The company must ensure that there is proper capacity and safety standards at peak times.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this Topical Issue which I tabled with my colleagues, Deputies Simon Harris and Terence Flanagan. As Deputy Harris stated, this has become something of a saga in recent weeks. When Irish Rail announced the changes at the outset some months ago it was with the intention of saving money and shortening the carriages during what were termed off-peak times rather than cut down on the frequency of the service. That seemed absolutely sensible.

We do not seem to be able to get a straight answer on the matter but it seems the company did not assess what constituted peak times when it was setting out the new arrangements. Furthermore, any efforts to address that seem to have been met with resistance. It appears some form of industrial dispute is ongoing and this is compounding the problem.

The fact is that overcrowding is now regularly occurring and causing significant inconvenience for commuters. Previously, Irish Rail undertook to monitor the changes to ensure this sort of congestion did not arise. On one or two days the overhead lines have been inactive and that probably would have occurred anyway but it is happening every day and has happened every day for the past two weeks. The sight of four carriages and sometimes two carriages now when six and eight carriages were the norm is perplexing. This is a public service which has been very efficient and proven to alleviate traffic. It has also proven to be a reliable service and has improved over the years, but these difficulties are undermining it.

While the principle of not being obliged to use full-length trains to save energy off-peak is good, Irish Rail should now re-evaluate the decision. It should consult the organisations representing all the staff and ensure this can be done in a way that saves the money and improves the service.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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I also thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to raise this important issue together with my colleagues, who are Deputies from the south side. I am a Deputy from the north side with eight DART stations in my constituency. The DART is a vital lifeline to my constituents, who use it on a daily basis to travel to and from the city, as well as to the south side and beyond. As noted earlier, customers experienced an extremely crowded situation on the DART last Monday, with some services operating with four-carriage trains or even with two-carriage trains in some instances, particularly at peak times. As the Minister of State is aware, this was due to the dispute between train drivers and management. However, this has been an ongoing issue for some time, with fewer carriages coming into play. As Deputy Harris noted, Iarnród Éireann has stated this pertains to saving energy costs. The company has a smaller budget as a consequence of the economic situation. However, customers have been paying more in increased fares and it was announced recently that the cost of ticket prices is set to increase by a further 10.3% next year. These price increases are not justified, particularly if customers are receiving an inferior service.

Customers do not expect to get a seat at peak times in particular, that is, before 8:30 a.m. or after 5:30 p.m. However, they deserve better than cramped, extremely harsh and overcrowded trains. The Evening Herald newspaper reported on the conditions experienced last week and, having experienced it myself at first hand, it certainly is a major health and safety issue. Given the claustrophobic conditions in which commuters can find themselves, one certainly must take heed of the situation and ensure this does not happen.

What discussions has the Minister of State had with Irish Rail in respect of the length of trains and number of carriages? Does he believe Iarnród Éireann has the funding to provide six or eight-carriage trains at peak times? The Minister of State also might provide an update regarding the industrial dispute. In addition, is there any way in which commuters can be forewarned as to the length of the approaching train? Could such a warning be displayed on the screens located in all DART stations in order that at least, the actual arrival of a train with only two carriages does not create panic with everyone running about?

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this matter. While the provision of DART services is an operational matter for Irish Rail in conjunction with the National Transport Authority, NTA, I have been in touch with both parties in respect of this issue today. Irish Rail states that a peak times, over the past 18 months it has operated a mix of four, six and eight-carriage DART trains. It monitors closely the numbers travelling to ensure it provides as efficient a service as possible by matching the train size to actual demand. This includes allowing for full loading, which on some services increases the levels of standing passengers. Irish Rail has stated this is the norm in urban rail systems internationally at peak times. This initiative delivers fuel and maintenance savings with associated environmental benefits. As Irish Rail is anxious to maintain service frequency, train size is its main means of adjusting to current demand levels. It of course will increase train sizes if services are unable to cater for the numbers travelling. It has already done so with some peak and off-peak services as demand patterns change and will do so in the future. This will be a process of ongoing monitoring and review and should the company perceive significant growth in demand, it has the fleet capacity to respond to it.

I have been informed by the National Transport Authority that it has given conditional approval to Irish Rail's request to reduce the number of DART carriages in operation for the period 19 September to 31 December 2013. The NTA is reviewing on an ongoing basis the operation of the reduced DART carriage numbers by means of the information contained in a four-weekly report produced by Irish Rail, any other feedback or reports received and by raising queries with Irish Rail as required. In addition, the NTA shortly will carry out a customer survey to assess the impact of the reduced number of DART carriages on commuters. The information gathered from the above activities will be used to inform the NTA's approval of Irish Rail's DART carriage strategy.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, and I, together with the departmental officials, have been engaged almost constantly over the past 18 months in dealing with the financial situation in CIE and its subsidiary companies, including Irish Rail, to ensure a return to financial stability to enable them to continue to provide an essential service to the public. Irish Rail has incurred accumulated losses of €130 million in the past five years, a position which I am sure all Members will agree is unsustainable. My Department and the National Transport Authority are working with Irish Rail to increase the efficiency and attractiveness of existing rail services.

The Government continues to provide substantial Exchequer investment in the rail network despite the significant financial challenges. In the past two years, almost €385 million has been invested in Irish Rail. Despite the reduced level of funding available, my Department has allocated more than €135 million towards the rail network this year. In addition to safety-related works, Irish Rail is undertaking infrastructural works to improve journey times such as removing or upgrading level crossings, providing automated ticketing machines and improving station facilities, all of which contribute to making the railway more competitive and attractive to passengers. In addition to capital investment, Irish Rail also received a total allocation of €127 million in 2013 for public service obligation services. Given the pressure on the public finances, there is no possibility of additional funding by the Exchequer. The board of CIE also is pursuing a range of measures to address the financial position, including cost reductions across the three operating companies in order that its rail and bus services can be provided efficiently and cost-effectively over the plan period.

I am scheduled to meet the chief executive of Irish Rail tomorrow. I already have tabled a number of questions to him and I give the Deputies a commitment that I will raise this issue directly with him on a face-to-face basis tomorrow. Furthermore, Irish Rail has assured me that over the coming weeks, it will be engaged in adjusting and monitoring the requirements on the DART line in accordance with the needs for various different forms of carriages, particularly at peak times. Members will appreciate that the majority of travel on the DART, that is, 65%, takes place either in the morning or evening and the other 35% of travel takes place during the other 14 hours of the day. Irish Rail must tweak and concentrate the carriage numbers in respect of peak hours and I have stressed that point to the company as recently as today.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply and am grateful that he intends to raise these issues directly with the chief executive. All I ask is for the chief executive and Irish Rail to keep the commitment they made to commuters and the Minister of State on 9 September 2013, when they issued a press statement stating this capacity issue would only affect off-peak DART services. My colleagues and I are telling the Minister of State clearly that commuters in Greystones, Bray and all along the DART line to the north side have noticed this happening at peak times. While I note the Minister of State mentioned the NTA intends to carry out a survey, I have carried out my own online survey of commuters, which literally hundreds of people have completed thus far. People are telling me the 7 a.m. train and the peak-time train home in the evening are operating at a reduced capacity. A fortune was spent on increasing the platform lengths to facilitate longer DART trains and the Minister of State quite correctly tells Members that Irish Rail has the capacity and fleet for that time. It must carry out what the Minister of State called tweaking very quickly and I appreciate the Minister's view on that. As for the economic argument, Irish Rail can make money by getting people on the trains and by making the DART an attractive service and that is precisely what the company must do.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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At the outset, it was stated that this measure would save €3.2 million and would only affect off-peak services. In his response, the Minister of State noted there was no possibility of additional funding by the Exchequer. However, no one is asking for that and that is not in question because this is about management and putting together trains with the appropriate number of carriages for the demand at the time. As the Minister of State stated, there are 14 hours in the day when demand is not at peak and this makes up two thirds or three quarters of the entire day. While it makes no sense to run empty six or eight-carriage trains along the length of the DART line from Greystones to Howth, they should be in place when they are needed and the energy can be saved during the remaining period.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response and ask him to comment on the industrial situation within Irish Rail. In his response, he stated "as efficient a service as possible" would be provided "by matching train size to actual demand" and that the NTA has given conditional approval to Irish Rail. I assume this permission to reduce the number of DART carriages relates to off-peak times, as it would be extremely concerning otherwise.

Will the Minister of State raise at the meeting tomorrow if the number of carriages on trains could be indicated on the signage on the platform to enable passengers to be aware of the numbers of carriages as the train approaches the station? If shorter trains continue to be norm, can the ventilation system, in particular, be examined and upgraded? It is a major concern. As I said, it was reported in the Evening Herald that not enough space is available and people feel claustrophobic on the trains. I have had experience of that and I know from where they are coming.

A disruption to DART services on the northside is planned on the bank holiday weekend. No services will be available between Pearse Street Station and Howth due to the city centre resignalling project, a project that is to be welcomed. To not have any DART services on that line on the bank holiday weekend seems like an own goal. Perhaps Irish Rail could reschedule those works for a different time. The Minister of State might also raise that point at the meeting tomorrow.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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I will respond to the Deputy's last question first. The reason for the disruption is that a significant resignalling programme is going ahead this weekend. I accept the Deputy's concerns but because it is required from a safety point of view to carry out testing over three consecutive days, the alternative would be to do carry it out on a bank holiday weekend during the summer. It is probably the lesser of two evils to do the testing this weekend. That is the honest answer. Under safety regulations, testing must be carried out consecutively for three days. Clearly it cannot be done during the week having regard to the numbers commuting.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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It could be done over the Christmas period or a holiday period.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy, allow the Minister of State to respond.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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Regarding the IR situation, matters are progressing towards a satisfactory solution. There is some movement and I am confident that it is going in the direction.

I will take up with the chief executive tomorrow the possibility of advance signalling of the number of carriages on trains in terms of safety concerns. It is a fair point, as is the point regarding ventilation. The real time passenger information, RTPI, service signals the time trains are due. I do not know if that service can be tweaked to signal the number of carriages on the train but I will ask about that tomorrow.

I repeat to the Deputy and the other Deputies who raised this issue that we and the NTA will be having discussions with Irish Rail in terms of monitoring the situation and ensuring that at peak times the size of the trains in terms of the number of carriages are sufficient to meet demand and whatever changes or tweaking are required that they will be made to ensure that customers have the best service possible and that we maximise revenue accruing from DART services. I can assure the Deputies that this will be done. I thank them for raising this issue.