Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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4. To ask the Minister for Defence when the Green Paper on Defence will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36051/13]

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Minister for Defence if he will provide an update on the long awaited Green Paper on Defence; the timescale for the publication of the final White Paper on Defence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36428/13]

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 and 5 together.

Ireland’s first White Paper on Defence was published in 2000. In the intervening period there have been significant changes in the defence and security environment with the emergence of new and complex security challenges. In that context, the Government decided that there is a requirement to prepare a new White Paper on Defence. In order to engender wider engagement in the development of a new White Paper on Defence, my colleague, the Minister for Defence, initiated the preparation of a Green Paper on Defence. Following Government approval, the Minister was very pleased to publish the Green Paper on Tuesday, 16 July 2013. The purpose of the Green Paper is to inform and encourage members of the public and other interested parties to consider and submit their views, which will be taken into consideration in the preparation of a new White Paper on Defence. The Green Paper contains a comprehensive overview of our current defence policy framework and the changes that have taken place since the publication of the first White Paper on Defence. It also includes an assessment of future challenges in the defence and security environment.

A broad range of issues must be examined in developing a new White Paper on Defence. For example, we must consider the types of capabilities that should be maintained having regard to likely future operational requirements and available resources. We must reflect on our approach to collective security co-operation to ensure that it will continue to meet emerging requirements. This will be determined against the backdrop of our policy of military neutrality, our membership of the United Nations, our participation in the EU's Common Security and Defence Policy and our long tradition of international peacekeeping. In that context, the Green Paper sets out a number of focused policy questions to aid submissions.

The Green Paper does not aim to be prescriptive. It seeks to encourage active consideration of defence matters and to elicit views as to how we should address defence and security challenges in the coming years. Details on how members of the public and other interested parties can submit their views are set out in the Green Paper. The Minister is confident that this consultative process will better inform the development of the new White Paper on Defence. It is anticipated that the latter will be submitted to Government for approval by mid-2014.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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On a number of occasions I raised with the Minister for Defence the fact that carrying out a fundamental restructuring of the Defence Forces in advance of the publication of the Green Paper was something of a farce. In any event, the Green Paper has been published and it is welcome. We look forward to making contributions to the debate on it. The triple lock has quickly emerged as one of the key issues in the context of the Green Paper. This is because the Minister, Deputy Shatter, has clearly put it up for discussion. I do not believe the Minister was a Member of the House in 2004 when Fine Gael tabled a motion calling for the abolition of the triple lock. The Minister of State was probably here at that time and he probably voted in favour of the motion. Abolishing the triple lock was obviously an important part of Fine Gael policy because it was included in a policy document - Beyond Neutrality - which the party produced.

Perhaps the Minister of State might provide the answer to a riddle. On Wednesday, the Taoiseach came before the House in the aftermath of the publication of the Green Paper and indicated that there is no question whatsoever about the triple lock and that, in fact, it is as safe as houses. If that is the case, what is the value of the discussion process relating to the Green Paper? In the context of a document produced by the Minister for Defence, the Taoiseach, who is the Head of Government, has stated that the triple lock is not going to be dismantled. It appears that the decision has already been made - I am happy with it - before the discussion in which the Minister for Defence has decided we should engage has even begun. Will the Minister of State explain how this situation arose?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I was on the Fine Gael Front Bench when the motion to which the Deputy refers was debated. There would be no harm is engaging in a healthy debate on the triple lock. I welcome the fact that it is going to be discussed by all branches of the Defence Forces, the relevant committee, the political parties, etc. This issue has been raised not just by Fine Gael but also by other political parties over a long period. If we had not included reference to the triple lock in the Green Paper, Deputy Ó Fearghaíl would have said that we were hiding something. The best course of action, therefore, was to include it. I am of the view that it is worthy of discussion prior to the formulation of the new White Paper. I have no doubt that the Minister, Deputy Shatter, will set out his views - and those of the Government - on the triple lock at the relevant committee or perhaps in the Dail later in the year. I ask that the various spokespersons on defence read the Green Paper, which contains some very good material. The triple lock is one of the matters to which reference is made in the Green Paper and it will be up for debate.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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As Deputy Ó Fearghaíl indicated, it is remarkable that a complete and radical restructuring of the Permanent Defence Force and the Reserve Defence Force has taken place and that we are now being presented with a Green Paper on the future of those very forces. Perhaps there might be an opportunity to revisit the restructuring and our submission on the Green Paper will certainly contemplate that matter.

The issue on which I wish to focus is neutrality. As Deputy Ó Fearghaíl correctly pointed out, some years ago the Minister of State's party produced an alarming document, Beyond Neutrality, which was launched by Gay Mitchell MEP, who was then a Member of these Houses. Some of the comments made by the Minister Shatter in respect of our neutrality - these were reported in NATO Review and the interview in which he made them is available online - are alarming. I wish to make it clear to the Minister of State that we are very proud of our policy of neutrality. It is a positive form of neutrality which does not involve sitting on the fence but which does allow us to play our role. On a per-capita basis, this State is one of the best contributors of overseas aid. The influence this country has in proportion to its size is remarkable. We are proud of our peacekeepers who wear the blue helmets of the UN in regions across the globe. However, we do not want to be part of a growing NATO alliance. We do not need to be part of such an alliance. We can instead play to our strengths and intervene in human rights situation and act as advocates in the context of challenging regimes on their human rights records. We can also involve ourselves in the area of conflict resolution. The Government must clearly affirm our pride in our neutrality, particularly as it has been eroded somewhat as a result of what has happened at Shannon Airport in recent times and on foot of events surrounding the operation in Mali. Will the Minister of State outline his thoughts on that matter?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I should have replied to what Deputy Ó Fearghaíl said in respect of the Minister, Deputy Shatter, putting the cart before the horse. We were obliged to restructure the Defence Forces as a result of the state the country's finances were in when the Deputy's party left power.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State should not be repeating that old hogwash.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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We were faced with a situation whereby we could either not recruit personnel or else have plenty of barracks but with no one stationed in them. The Minister, Deputy Shatter, and the Government made the correct decision when they decided to deal with the issue of recruitment. It was the Deputy's party which suspended the recruitment of personnel for the Defence Forces. In line with a commitment it made, the Government has seen to it that new recruits were taken on at the end of last year and the beginning of this year in order to ensure that the number of personnel in the Defence Forces remains at 9,500. All going well, there will be a further recruitment process at the end of the year.

Deputy Mac Lochlainn referred to neutrality. Fine Gael produced what was more of a discussion document - as opposed to a policy document - on neutrality when it was in opposition. Neutrality, the triple lock and other issues must all be discussed and we cannot ignore them for long periods.

That area of neutrality and the Government's intention in that respect would be part of the Green Paper in preparation for the White Paper.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Is there anything else in the Green Paper that has been predetermined? What the Minister of State said is at variance with what the Taoiseach said, namely, that the triple lock was not for changing. The Minister included it for consideration and the Minister of State is telling us, contrary to what the Taoiseach said, that it is up for consideration and that submissions will be welcome on it. Are there any other issues in this Green Paper that have been predetermined by the Taoiseach, or by the Minister for Defence or are there any further insights the Minister of State can give us into the issue?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The final sentence of section 2.7 of the Green Paper, which deals with overseas deployment and the triple lock mechanism, states that this is an issue worthy of discussion in advance of the adoption of a new White Paper. That sets out clearly the Government's intentions regarding the triple lock. It is stated in this document that we want it to be debated and to get people's views on it. We will provide the opportunity for people to express their views on it. If the Government and the Department of Defence had published the Green Paper this week and omitted the area of the triple lock, the Deputy would be jumping up and down today asking why we did not include it. We are providing an opportunity for everybody to have their say once and for all. The preparation of the White Paper will be for the next decade for the Irish Defence Forces as they move forward. This is an area on which we must have a discussion. I am not disagreeing or agreeing with the Taoiseach in this respect but what I am saying is that the Deputy will have an opportunity to have a discussion, as will I and the Defence Forces, be it PDFORRA or whoever, on the area of the triple lock in preparation for the White Paper.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister of State dissociate himself from the comments made by the Minister, Deputy Shatter, in that interview around the irrelevance of neutrality in Ireland? It is bad enough that our neutrality has been eroded, but can the Minister of State make it clear that the Government has no plans to remove neutrality and that he will send a clear message to that effect to the Secretary General of NATO who expressed his desire for Ireland to join, quite disrespectfully, when he was here some time ago?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I am not going to dissociate myself from any comments that the Minister, Deputy Shatter, made. As I said to Deputy Ó Fearghaíl, we have an opportunity to discuss the area of neutrality and many other issues will be addressed in the discussions around the Green Paper in preparation for the new White Paper. That will give everyone an opportunity to debate the issues and then we will find out what is the best policy as we move forward. I understand the Deputy has his views and we have our views. I have no doubt there are many other varying views inside and outside the House on these issues.