Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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When the Taoiseach got to his feet in the Dáil and issued an apology to the survivors of the Magdalen laundries, everybody gathered here and beyond understood that this was the beginning of the end game for those women. It is astonishing to hear the four religious orders - the Sisters of Mercy, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, the Sisters of Charity and the Good Shepherd Sisters - say today that they will not contribute to the compensation fund for these women. Let it be said that the compensation and redress scheme envisaged is very modest and that despite the publication of the Quirke report, we have not had the necessary opportunity to debate and scrutinise that redress scheme in the Dáil. I raised the issue with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence and the Taoiseach. It was remiss of us as public representatives not to scrutinise the scheme.

It should also be said that the McAleese report which informed the work of Mr. Justice Quirke was an incomplete piece of work and at no point reflected the full brutality of the regime suffered by the girls and women in the Magdalen laundries. That said and given its lack of completeness, it must be said that the McAleese report represented the point in time where officially, finally and conclusively the State recognised the wrong done to those women and girls. These were women who were held against their will, who were subjected to forced labour and who suffered the stigma, shame and silence around their experiences in these laundries for many decades afterwards.

Women with direct experience of the laundries were very angered when they got word today that the religious orders have simply turned up their noses at them and that everybody is sorry for what happened but not sorry enough to make a financial contribution to the very modest redress and compensation these women are due. I very much hope that the Government is equally angered. I noted the comments by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence earlier in the day and I understand that he expressed disappointment. He needs to express more than disappointment. I would like him to tell us about the nature of the meetings with the religious congregations, who met them and when. What was the ask of Government to these congregations? Most crucially, what does the Minister propose to do about this matter now?

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy McDonald for raising this important matter and for the opportunity to speak in the House here today on this issue. The Deputy knows that when I took up office, I was determined that we would address the issue of the Magdalen laundries and the position of the former residents. My Government colleagues were fully briefed by me on today's matter at our Cabinet meeting this morning.

The House will be aware that the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, equality and mental health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, and I announced a scheme of payments on 26 June 2013 for women who were admitted to and worked in the Magdalen laundries, St Mary's Training Centre, Stanhope Street, and House of Mercy Training School, Summerhill, Wexford. This followed the publication of the report by Mr. Justice Quirke, president of the Law Reform Commission, on the establishment of an ex-gratia scheme and a comprehensive range of supports for the women involved. More specifically, the Government decided that a scheme should be introduced for the benefit of those women who were in the Magdalen laundries. It was agreed that a fund should be established for this purpose and to invite the religious congregations involved in the running of the laundries to make an appropriate contribution to the fund as a reflection of their desire to participate in the healing and reconciliation process.

There were four religious congregations involved in the running of these institutions - the Good Shepherd Sisters, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, the Sisters of Mercy and the Sisters of Charity. The Minister of State and I met with the four congregations involved and raised the issue of a financial contribution to the cost of implementing the scheme recommended by Mr. Justice Quirke. We met with them before and subsequent to the publication of Mr. Justice Quirke's report. At our meeting, we explained that it was a restorative justice scheme and as such the Cabinet expected that the congregations would contribute to the fund being established and that we had been informed by some of the women who resided in the laundries that they believed the congregations should make such contribution.

Some perceived this to be part of a reconciliation process between them and the congregations, but of course this was not the perspective of all. The congregations were given time to reflect on the recommendations contained in Mr. Justice Quirke's report and were asked to respond to both me and the Minister of State, Deputy Lynch. The four congregations were also asked to co-operate fully with the provision and checking of records held by them, which is essential for the implementation of the Magdalen scheme, and to make a financial contribution to the cost of the scheme.

The Deputy will appreciate that the full cost of the scheme is difficult to estimate at this time. It will depend on the number of women who apply and the duration of their stay in a Magdalen home. While information on how it will apply and the possible range of payments and supports are set out in considerable detail in the Quirke report, as accepted by the Government, it is expected to cost between €34.5 million and €58 million.

Regrettably, all four religious congregations have informed us they do not intend to make a financial contribution. I regard their response as very disappointing. It is my view the congregations have a moral obligation to make a reasonable contribution to the fund required under the scheme and this view is shared by all my Cabinet colleagues. It is a view I believe will be shared by a majority of people outside this House. I hope all four congregations will further reflect on the response we have received from them and will again consider making a contribution to the fund and reducing the burden imposed on taxpayers throughout the State.

It is important I inform the House that all four congregations have stated they will continue to co-operate fully with the provision and checking of records held by them and to provide all the assistance they can in this regard to assist us in validating applications made under the scheme and length of stays in the relevant institutions. It is also important I recognise the congregations gave unprecedented access to their records and fully co-operated with Dr. McAleese in his preparation of his report. As we proceed to quickly implement the recommendations contained in the Quirke report, their assistance is crucial in supporting and verifying the applications of former residents who wish to apply for benefits or support from the scheme. It is also important to note the religious congregations still care for more than 100 elderly women who originally resided in the Magdalen laundries.

I would like to take the opportunity to confirm that arrangements are in place in the Department to process applications from the women involved. A copy of Mr. Justice Quirke's report, together with an application form, was posted to all women who had registered an expression of interest with the Department. As of yesterday evening, 212 completed application forms had been received and more are arriving by the day. These applications are being processed as quickly as possible and I am happy to state the religious congregations are co-operating fully in the checking of records held by them and are providing all the assistance they can in this context.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with the Minister on one point, which is people throughout the country expected much more from the religious congregations. I do not believe they should be given a bye ball on the basis they have co-operated with access to records and gave Dr. McAleese full co-operation. One would expect no less given the scenario and what was being investigated. Unlike the Minister I do not find response disappointing; I find it despicable and unacceptable.

What does the Minister propose to do? It is all very well for him to hope the congregations will reflect on their decision. Rather more than this is required. It needs to be stated very plainly to these congregations that the women and girls of the Magdalen laundries - and they were laundries and not homes - were abused comprehensively, that the State has acknowledged its involvement in this abuse and that the congregations themselves bear a moral, ethical and social duty to pay into a very modest compensation fund.

What will the Minister do? It would be a travesty of the most basic sense of justice for a Government and Cabinet which agree the congregations need to come forward and contribute to the fund to stand back and laud the same congregations for basic levels of co-operation in respect of documentation with which any reasonable decent person would simply expect them to come forward. What will the Minister do now? He has clearly been given the brush-off by the congregations. Surely he is not considering for a second this will be the end of the matter. I want to hear more than an appeal for reflection. We need to see action and see these congregations finally do a very modest, but very decent, thing.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I agree entirely with the Deputy that the congregations, as she put it, have a moral, ethical and social duty to contribute to the fund. As I stated, the majority of people outside the House would expect such a contribution, and many of the former residents of the Magdalen laundries or homes expect such contributions. I do not believe anything can be achieved by me as a Minister being abusive of those who are members of these congregations. In my view this is a moral and ethical obligation. I will not pretend there is something I can do which is not doable - if I can put it that way for the Deputy - either for the sake of a headline in a newspaper or in the context of responding to the Deputy.

I am proud of the fact I am a member of a Government which has finally addressed the enormous legacy of the Magdalen laundries and the impact they had on so many women whose plights were ignored by successive Governments. We commissioned the report which Dr. McAleese produced. I do not believe this report deserves criticism. It is comprehensive and revealed information never previously available. We asked Mr. Justice Quirke to look at a restorative justice scheme. We wanted to move away from the approach of the redress board where individuals had to detail the horrors of what they experienced. We have put in place a scheme which I believe will work extremely well.

I am disappointed the congregations do not recognise their moral, ethical and social obligation to contribute to the scheme. I urge them to reconsider the approach they are taking. There is an issue when they say, as they have, they want to effect a reconciliation with so many of the women, but the good faith or bona fides of this approach is tested by the manner in which they respond. This response, and it is fair for me to acknowledge it, is partly co-operation in accessing records, which is important, and the fact they continue to care for approximately 130 elderly and frail women, many of them very frail and who have been in their care for decades, but it is not enough. It is the united view of all sides of the House, and of the vast majority of people outside the House, that there is a moral obligation. I hope, bearing in mind the congregations' position, their background and ethical understanding of the world, that this moral obligation will be recognised. I cannot play my role as Minister for Defence and arrive with the tank outside the gates of one of these congregations and demand they provide funding.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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No one is suggesting that.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I must urge them, as I and the Minister of State, Deputy Lynch, did privately, to respond positively to the Quirke report and contribute to the scheme, and I am now doing so publicly. I hope they will reconsider the position they have taken. On reflection they may recognise many of the members of the congregations would like to approach this matter in a manner whereby the wider public regards them as accepting some level of responsibility for the difficulties which occurred in the lives of these women.