Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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6. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine the steps he will take to encourage the slaughter of surplus horses; the way he intends to encourage the slaughter of surplus young horses; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29376/13]

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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First, I am glad this issue was raised because, as the Deputy is aware, we have had a challenging year in terms of horsemeat entering the food chain. I believe we have got through that successfully and have been Europe's leaders in exposing the problem and in putting in place policy initiatives to ensure it does not happen again. However, one consequence has been a dramatic reduction in the number of horses slaughtered in Irish slaughtering facilities this year. Thus far, the figure is approximately 5,500 whereas last year, the figure would have been nearly four times that.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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What was the figure for last year?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Last year the figure was four times that at approximately 24,000. There are a number of reasons for that, and people should not necessarily draw the conclusion that the number of horses slaughtered last year, which is different from the number for this year, are horses that should not have been slaughtered. That is not the case. The main reason the number of horses slaughtered this year is dramatically decreased is that we shut down facilities. For a number of months this year there were no facilities to slaughter horses. As a result of that we have a problem because there are many low-value horses for which there is no market that would have found their way, through various different systems in terms of transporting horses or slaughtering of horses, out of the system last year. Now, because we are strictly imposing the rules, as we must, to guarantee we can stand over everything that goes into the food chain we must deal with a by-product of that, which is that there are many unwanted horses, and there is animal welfare concern around that population of horses.

There is also a problem in that EU regulations do not allow horsemeat into the pet food chain, in other words, rendering. We are examining that with the Commission to see whether that may be an outlet for horses. Horse owners who do not have identification for their animals would not have the full costs of getting their horse slaughtered and disposed of through a knackery and so on.

We have an open mind on this issue but I want to state clearly that we should not and will not simply look for a derogation to allow all these horses into the food chain because we have a problem with them. That would send out all sorts of negative messages in terms of Ireland's attitude towards food safety, and we cannot allow that given where we have been this year, but we will examine other solutions that are practical and make sense.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for the reply. He has outlined the problem very well. He has not given much indication in regard to solutions. I wonder what the Minister intends to do to deal with this problem because we have a real problem. I agree with him that we must be sure about standards but has he any proposals, for example, to introduce a scrappage scheme through which money would be made available to take the surplus horses out of the system? Surplus horses, some owned and some not owned, are a major problem around the country.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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On a related matter, there are a number of reasons the numbers have dropped significantly. A major problem arose post the boom in that there were a huge number of horses in the system that became surplus to requirement. With the passing of the animal health and welfare legislation, before they are released horses that are impounded should be micro-chipped and anybody who reclaims them must have a name and address to ensure that in the event they are re-impounded, we can take decisions on whether they should be released or taken out of the system.

Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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This is a serious problem across the country. In the area I come from there is a large number of horses with which nothing can be done, and many of them are going hungry on the side of the road. Some type of scheme must be put in place, perhaps a scrappage scheme as suggested by Deputy Ó Cuív, or a grant aid scheme to ensure something can be done about the problem.

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I take the opportunity to welcome the new Minister of State, Deputy Tom Hayes, to the House. Comhghairdeas. Regarding a potential registration waiver, which I have raised with the Minister previously, I understand where Deputy Ó Cuív is coming from on that but the difficulty is that the registration sometimes costs more than the cost of the horse. A prohibitive cost issue arises in that horses are being dumped because the owners do not want to register them. I do not seek a response today but I ask that consideration be given to some form of waiver for registration because of the prohibitive cost of registering.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I want to be clear on a number of points. Even if one registers one's horse it does not solve the problem. The Deputy's point is a fair one. We are trying to find a solution that will encourage people to abide by that solution and ensure it does not cost them a fortune. Otherwise, we will have concerns about animal welfare, and I have seen photographs of horses that have been dumped, abused and so on.

It might be helpful if I were to come into committee on this issue where we could discuss in detail some of the options rather than giving a short soundbite here. This is a difficult problem. We have outlets for unwanted horses. We pay local authorities a good deal of money, and they are disposing of very large numbers of horses but that is probably not enough to deal with the current significant problem that has arisen as a by-product of the horsemeat crisis and the fact that many of the factories were closed to horsemeat. Two factories are now open again and they are slaughtering quite large numbers of horses but we still have a glut of horses to deal with, and many of them will not be allowed past the door of a factory.

We have to find a solution for that but it is also important in a debate like this one to remind people who own horses of their obligations. The idea that it is somehow the Government's problem to deal with the disposal of an animal that they own and have responsibility for because it now appears it is more expensive to dispose of that animal is wrong. It is important in that context to remind people of their obligations when they own an animal, but we need a detailed discussion on this issue.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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There is a lot of interest in this particular question. I call Deputy Ó Cuív and Deputy Mulherin and ask them to be brief.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the indication from the Minister that he will come into the committee. The Chairman is sitting behind him and I am sure he will be amenable to that proposal. We look forward to that debate.

When the Minister comes into the committee there is one issue that deserves serious consideration, and it is an EU issue. Why is it that the standards that apply within the European Union regarding horsemeat for human consumption are higher than the standards the European Union applies to imports of horsemeat from the United States of America for the same purpose?

Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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To add to that, a resources issue does arise here. I welcome the Minister's indication that he will attend the committee. Whether it is horses or other animals that are abandoned, the problem is finding the owners. There is a major problem with finding resources for voluntary animal welfare and rescue organisations that are inundated and carrying the heavy load for local authorities. Notwithstanding the moneys the Minister is giving to those local authorities, it is not enough and I ask him to address that issue.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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On that, we have also increased the funding available to animal welfare organisations. Despite the fact that we have had to reduce expenditure on practically every heading for the reasons with which everybody is familiar, animal welfare organisations have seen a significant increase in the amount of financial supports they get, and it is because they need it. In the middle of a recession animals often get abused, and welfare organisations are busier now than they have ever been in the past.

On the standards issue, there are no horses slaughtered in the US. They are either taken up to Canada or down to Mexico. Large numbers of horses are imported from the US into Europe for the human food chain. My understanding is that they have to pass a series of tests before they enter that human food chain but we can only control the slaughtering facilities we have in the European Union through EU regulations. The inter-trade negotiations we have with the US are a different matter, but I agree with the Deputy that we should insist on a common standard.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It is a human health issue.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is, yes.