Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the progress made on the commitment in his Department's Statement of Strategy 2011-2014 to restrict the use of the guillotine motions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2352/13]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the commitment in his Department's Statement of Strategy 2011-2014 regarding ensuring a minimum of two weeks between each stage of a Bill except in exceptional circumstances; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2353/13]

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach when he expects to bring forward proposals for reform of the way business is conducted in Dáil Éireann. [25202/13]

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 5, inclusive, together.

The programme for Government sets out an ambitious Oireachtas reform agenda, which includes a referendum on the abolition of the Seanad, the enhancing of the Oireachtas committee system and the reform of Dáil Éireann. A restricted use of the guillotine and a minimum period of time between each stage of a Bill’s progress through the Dáil, except in exceptional circumstances, are both part of this reform agenda. While it is impossible to abolish the use of a guillotine or fix minimum periods of time before stages of a Bill in every case, it is the absolute intention over the lifetime of the Government that both the use of the guillotine and the accelerated passage of legislation increasingly will be less of a feature of the work of the Oireachtas.

The Government Chief Whip, the Minister of State, Deputy Paul Kehoe, along with Dáil Whips from all the political parties and the Technical Group, the Ceann Comhairle, the chair of the working group of committee chairs and officials in Leinster House have been involved in developing the second phase of Dáil and Oireachtas committee reforms. The Dáil Reform Sub-Committee of the Dáil Committee on Procedure and Privileges has discussed detailed reform proposals which will expand the role of the committee system, allow for an improved Topical Issue system and expand the amount of debate time allocated to legislation in the Dáil. The Government Chief Whip proposes to bring forward this second phase of Dáil reform in the coming months with the new procedures in place by later this year. The process of Oireachtas reform is ongoing and following the introduction of the second phase of Dáil reforms, consultation on further Oireachtas reforms will take place involving all the Dáil Whips.

The Government has already made progress in a number of areas of Oireachtas reform. In July 2011, after four months in office, the Government introduced the first phase of Oireachtas reform with a package of Dáil reforms that included an additional Leaders' Questions session, taken by the Tánaiste, on Thursdays, the introduction of Topical Issue debates, Friday sittings to give Deputies the opportunity to introduce their own Bills, thereby enhancing the legislative role of Deputies, and a procedure to allow Deputies raise issues regarding replies to parliamentary questions with the Ceann Comhairle. Moreover, in 2011, a new Oireachtas committee system was established that introduced a number of programme for Government reforms designed to enhance the committee system. First, the number of Oireachtas committees was reduced from 25 to 16. Second, Bills can now be referred to Oireachtas committees before publication in order that they are involved at an early stage in the development of legislation and, third, a Joint Committee on Investigations, Oversight and Petitions, chaired by a member of the Opposition, was established.

In June 2012, the Oireachtas committee system was further re-structured with the establishment of an Oireachtas committee on jobs to focus solely on this area of Government priority, the establishment of an Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine to deal with the increased workload in this area in light of changes to the Common Agricultural Policy and the merger of the role of Chairman of the Oireachtas Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement with that of the Irish Co-Chair of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly.

The programme for Government has committed to increasing the number of Dáil sitting days by 50%. The Government already has reduced the length of Dáil breaks at Christmas, at Easter, after bank holidays and during the summer and has introduced regular Friday sitting. A comparison of sitting days between 2008, the first full year in office of the previous Government, and 2012, the first full year in office of this Government, shows an increase from 96 sitting days in 2008 to 123 in 2012.

On 5 June, in line with the programme for Government, a Bill was published to allow for the holding of a referendum in the autumn on the abolition of the Seanad. As part of that announcement a set of Dáil reform proposals was outlined, which included reforms that are desired for the move to a unicameral - one chamber - system. These include expanding the current system of sending heads of a Bill to committee for consideration before the Bill is published; the introduction of a new pre-enactment Stage to allow for extra consideration and scrutiny: each Bill will be referred back to the committee that considered it at pre-legislative and Committee Stages for a final examination after Report Stage before the Bill is passed by the House; Ministers will come before the relevant select committee within 12 months of the enactment of a Bill to discuss and review the functioning of the law and to allow for a debate from members and stakeholders as to whether the legislation is fulfilling its intended purpose; the establishment of a new Oireachtas committee system with 14 Dáil committees: four strategic committees on issues of major strategic and political importance including the Committee of Public Accounts, Finance and EU scrutiny, seven sectoral committees to shadow Government Departments, and three thematic committees which will focus on specific issues such as the Ombudsman and petitions, the Good Friday Agreement and Members' interests. It is envisaged that each committee will have 12 members and will invite external experts to provide specialist input to its work; the Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill will enable Oireachtas committees to undertake parliamentary inquires into certain matters of major public importance. A separate administrative system will ensure they function smoothly; and the d'Hondt system will distribute chairs of Oireachtas committees on a proportional and equitable basis across parties.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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It is hard to know where to start on this one. I will refrain from saying anything about the Seanad because we will have a debate on that in the course of the week. I have to admit that over a period there has been some active engagement between the Government Whip and the assistant Whip and the Labour Whip, Deputy Ó Snodaigh, Deputy Catherine Murphy and myself. I read some weeks ago on the front page of The Irish Times that the Chief Whip had stated it was the Opposition Whips who were holding up progress on reform. We were glad to be told by the Chief Whip subsequently that this was a misrepresentation of his position and that he acknowledged that the Opposition was not doing that.

I acknowledge also that in the introduction of the Topical Issue debate some significant progress has been made but I will come back to that because the topical issues are not everything they are cracked up to be.

I accept that the Friday sittings, which provide an opportunity to address Private Members' business, is a positive development but if we were to say that Friday sittings of themselves constituted radical reform of the Dáil, we would be fooling ourselves on a number of fronts, not least because it is a specific sitting aimed at dealing with an item of Private Members' business which is dealt with in the space of two hours, with a quorum of ten Members present, and where the normal business of the day is not to be transacted. When we consider extending the sittings of the Dáil to include Fridays we will have to have a debate related to what went on at the Constitutional Convention recently when it discussed the need to involve people in politics who are not currently finding politics attractive, and not least the need to attract women into politics.

In the course of the fairly lengthy debate that took place at the Constitutional Convention one of the issues that arose was that our work practices are not attractive to people, particularly those charged with raising families. It should not be only women who are raising families. I am sure many fathers would want the opportunity to spend more time with their children but if the Government's idea of reform is that the Dáil will sit for four days per week and that on some occasions it will sit from 9 a.m. or 10 a.m. until 10 p.m. or 12 midnight and at the same time try to encourage more people to become involved in politics, I do not see that happening. Something will have to give.

The Topical Issue debates got off to a great start but recently we have found that the Ministers charged with responsibility to come into the House to address the topical issues do not turn up. Some Ministers are very good at turning up but others are appalling, given that they rarely attend. On many occasions we find that the topical issues, which are selected by the Ceann Comhairle, are dealt with by Ministers of State who have no hand, act or part in the process under deliberation. They come in here and virtually apologise to the Member raising the particular matter because they will read out the prepared script but they are not in a position to address the concerns the Deputy has outlined.

Those are the two great areas of reform the Government is championing mid-way through its term of office. As I said, I am resisting the temptation to get involved in any debate about the Seanad but we are expected to believe that following on from that huge reform, as it is described, we will have huge reform. For example, we will make the committees more effective. The Government had to come back with a proposal to change the structure of the committees, as amended in the aftermath of the last general election, because it found that the procedures it put in place did not work and that the committees were being less effective rather than more effective. I do not know where the Government is going in terms of its current proposal to take a third bite of the cherry, so to speak, and examine committee reform.

We have particular difficulties with the issue of guillotining. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, was in the Chamber earlier and in answering every question he told us what the previous Government had done. I will put up my hands and say there were far too many guillotines in the past but the Minister of State, the Taoiseach and the Government came to power with a programme for Government that promised far fewer guillotines. The reality is that we have far more because 57% of the 90 Bills brought before the House by the Minister of State's Government have been the subject of guillotine. What gives us all displeasure is that the guillotines tended to not always be necessary because we ran out of speakers before the point in time was reached. In other instances they were about areas of particular importance where the need to tease out legislation in great detail was obvious. Dozens of amendments to Bills have been left undiscussed. It could be claimed that we are not fulfilling our parliamentary duty when amendments put before the House are brushed aside because the Government has decided that a guillotine will be applied.

The other issue is the two weeks between each Stage of a Bill except in exceptional circumstances. Again, that has been abused. We have not seen it happening in terms of many of the Bills that have been brought before us. Exceptional circumstances will arise where it will not be possible but it is happening far too frequently, and particular difficulties arise. That is not the fault of the Minister of State. He is charged with getting NewERA off the ground and therefore this is not his particular responsibility but for those whose responsibility it is, the type of progress promised is not being realised. The reform that has been championed on so many occasions is not being seen, and some of the reform will have the effect of making politics a far less attractive career for people than it is even at present.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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There has been significant change from the time the Deputy's party was last in Government. Regarding the sitting days, I gave the Deputy the comparison. Taking 2008 as the previous Government's last full year, and 2011 under this Government, the fact is that we are sitting much more often than was the case under the Deputy's Government. Obviously, times were difficult for the previous Government in terms of the economy.

The additional Leaders' question on a Thursday is clearly established and is for the benefit of democracy.

The Deputy referred to the introduction of Topical Issue debates and I agree it is a problem if the Minister is not present. The Deputy has the issue of concern to him selected, the Ceann Comhairle selects it in the proper way but the Minister is not there. I understand there are discussions under way that will allow for an option where if the Minister cannot make it, the Deputy can insist the Minister responds in a given period of time, such as within a week or two weeks, so there will be accountability from the line Minister back to the Deputy if his or her issue is selected.

The Friday sittings of the Dáil are very important. This is the first time in any Parliament since the foundation of the State that time has been given to backbenchers to put a Bill before the Ceann Comhairle, which is then selected for debate. That gives much greater power to elected Members who are not on the front bench for any party to introduce legislation that is important to him or her.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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How many of those Bills have found their way into law?

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I will be happy to get the Deputy the answer to that.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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None.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Frequently, there are sittings on Fridays and progress in that area.

When there is a dispute, as I used to have when I was in opposition, with a Minister about the answer to parliamentary questions, there will now be a process where there will be transparency about what happened and the Deputy can discuss all those issues with the Ceann Comhairle.

Are we sitting more often? Yes. Is more legislation coming through? Yes. Is there a commitment to reduce the use of the guillotine? There certainly is. I agree with the Deputy entirely on that. The work of the Joint Committee on Health and Children and the very important debate on the protection of maternal life will be the benchmark for how we will do things. An idea will go to committee, the committee will discuss it and it will then come back here. That will give the committee a much more important role than it had in any Administration until now. Committee reports are currently launched in the AV room and the media might or might not turn up. The proposal now is that these reports will be debated in the Dáil, giving the committee reports more power and status. Those are significant changes. The key issue is to secure consensus on all sides for change.

Bills come into being when a Minister makes a commitment to introduce legislation in a particular area. Notwithstanding that commitment, which might have been in a programme for Government, the preparation of the Bill can take some time, longer than was thought perhaps, because of complex legal issues identified by the Attorney General. Part of the process must be that where a commitment is given to introduce legislation, there must be a clear timetable. A Minister will not be able to say he or she will do work of legislative importance without having done the preliminary work. Sometimes a Minister promises to deal with a Bill by September but it has not been done by the following June. The Bill is then introduced just before a recess and is lashed through the Oireachtas. That whole process is wrong. If the process is working properly, there will be due consideration before a Minister says anything about legislation. There will be a timetable for publication and greater clarity and accountability. If we can achieve consensus on all sides on changes, which is what Whips' meetings are all about, we will have a better Parliament that is more accountable, more attractive and doing more business.

I take the point about hours. We may be moving to extending some of our days to earlier times in the morning so there are many issues in the melting pot for consideration. People ask if Deputies and Ministers ever see their families and that is important. We must have more family friendly hours in here and some of the changes that have been made and some that will be made will be helpful in that regard.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is an interesting debate we have had on a number of occasions since the Government was formed. The problem is that outside of the few changes that have happened, there has been a lot of talk on Dáil reform but we have not got down to the business of major change. The original criticism of the Adjournment matters is the very same criticism people make of the Topical Issue system, other than the fact they are at a different time of the day. The Ministers in question are often not the people answering the issues so it has fallen back into the same routine that brought it into disrepute previously, where Ministers read from a script and cannot engage because they are not the line Minister.

The guillotine is a key area. It is fine to say it will change; we were told that when the revolution in democracy was being announced. We may be in emergency circumstances now but some of the legislation that has been guillotined is not urgent. I am still waiting to find out the urgency in passing the Social Welfare and Pensions (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill last week. The Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill is the same. The only reason it is being rushed is because the Government picked a timeframe but that is a moveable feast because timetables are adjusted on many issues.

I argued with the last Government and this Government about the use of the heads of Bills. The Joint Committee on Health and Children was mentioned as a yardstick but it should be the case for every Bill, other than emergency Bills that must be produced overnight, that the heads of a Bill that have passed Cabinet should be published to allow the committee to do its work. That will give greater urgency to the committee work, along with greater focus. It is a problem in committees that some of the members do not turn up. I do not know how to address that when committees are not given due consideration and support by all Members of the Houses. How often have we had to sit at committees, waiting for a quorum so we can start a meeting and get to grips with legislation or other business? I am one of those who believes there should be more committees because the best work is done by this House in committee, particularly on legislation, albeit it is ignored unless some huge statement or controversy occurs. The committees are ignored by the media, including those who do "Oireachtas Report". The hard work of being a Deputy is often ignored. I am not blowing my own trumpet; I have seen those who have sat at committee for a whole day and it is not for the love of the media. It is because it was what they were elected to do.

Last year, the Minister for Social Protection, during the guillotined debate on the Social Welfare Bill, gave a commitment that the explanatory memorandum would be published in both Irish and English. She argued that she could not produce the legislation in Irish and English at the same time but said she would try to get the Government to produce explanatory memoranda bilingually. It is not beyond the capacity of the Government to do that and it would allow Members of the House to carry out their business in both official languages.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The views of Members opposite are valuable. The debate between the Whips will continue and suggestions that were made will be passed on to the Chief Whip.

The point is to make the Oireachtas more accountable and to make Ministers more accountable, both in committee and in the Dáil. On the timetable for legislation, if it is clear when it is published and, given the nature of it, that some pieces of legislation will be exceptional, one will know exactly what is going to happen, when the Stages will be taken, the role of the Committee and the importance of the interaction with the legislation.

I can remember in the past, in the previous Government, that a long Bill, perhaps with 120 pages, would have been introduced to the House on a Monday and be dispatched by the following Wednesday. Nobody even had time to read it, never mind understand what was in it. I doubt if the Minister knew because sometimes one gets dozens of amendments coming in, even on Report Stage. Inefficiency is at the heart of that. The good aspect was that we trusted the Civil Service and the legal advisers on what was in that legislation. Notwithstanding that we did not have due time in the Oireachtas to deal with it, there was a significant element of trust, which is a strong plus in terms of the advice we receive.

There needs to be greater scrutiny of legislation and greater scrutiny of Ministers. That is good and positive for democracy and this Government is ensuring that.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I will be brief because I accept the junior Minister of State's personal bona fides in this matter.

Basically, what he saying to us is, "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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No. Tá an lá tagtha.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Tá an athrú ag teacht.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with what was said by the Chief Whip in The Irish Times in the past fortnight where he indicated that the lack of reform was deplorable on the part of the Government. I accept that when the Chief Whip and all the other Whips meet we can work out an agreement. We can come up with proposals. However, the Chief Whip is a creature of Government and the difficulty is that when he goes back to the Government he has to do what the Government tells him. Clearly, the Government tells him to talk about reform but under no circumstances to deliver any reform.

The Minister of State spoke about the deliberations of the Joint Committee on Health and Children over the six days that it met on the heads of the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill. Great credit is due to Deputy Buttimer for the manner in which he conducted the hearings. People came in, they had their say, there was dignity, there was mutual respect on all sides but at the end of the day what was said at the inquiry had no impact, good, bad or indifferent, on the legislation that was produced.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is not true.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Committees will only be effective when, after their deliberations, some significant impact on the legislation that comes before them can be seen. If the public is aware that they are discussing legislation day in, day out for weeks on end but if, in effect, at the end of the day there is no amendments to the legislation, then one wonders what is the exercise about at all. It all comes back to a Government that is determined to implement its agenda, which includes putting out a positive spin on a host of matters and then doing its own thing.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Once there is progress, that is okay. Having sat here in two previous Dála looking over at the serried ranks of Fianna Fáil as they were then, the uniqueness of the Fianna Fáil seats was there were only two of them who were not a Minister, a junior Minister, a Chairman, a convenor, a Vice Chairman or whatever - all on the public purse and in some way doing Oireachtas business as they saw it. That has utterly and radically changed. All of that has gone now or significantly changed. This Oireachtas is far more efficient than previous Oireachtais. With respect, we cannot take a lecture from Deputy Ó Fearghaíl. The previous history stands for itself and the arguments of Governments in the past are clear.

Returning to the point I was making, change by consensus, the Whips sitting together and coming up with an agreement across all parties of the House, will lead to greater efficiency, better performance, more accountable Ministers and better debated Oireachtas issues. It is clear what the Government, particularly the Chief Whip, has announced so far.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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How can the Minister of State possibly tally his commitment to Dáil reform and to allowing for proper debate and scrutiny on key legislation, as the Government was promising, with this week's guillotine of a Bill which deals with probably the most substantial change to the Constitution that we have seen? It is inexplicable. I could not believe it when I went to the Technical Group meeting this morning to discover that the Government is guillotining the legislation dealing with Seanad reform. It is beyond comprehension. Could the Minister of State explain that contradiction?

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I am not aware that we are. I am not quite clear on it but I will get an answer to Deputy Boyd Barrett from the Chief Whip. I am sorry. I was not at that meeting and I do not know.