Dáil debates

Thursday, 30 May 2013

10:30 am

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Parents and people throughout the country are still reacting to the "Prime Time" exposé of behaviour in crèches and the cruelty to children and emotional abuse that was witnessed in the film footage of that programme. Many people are looking for immediate responses as well as medium and short-term responses. The situation has clearly shocked many people across the country.

I put it to the Tánaiste that some immediate steps could be taken to respond to the issues raised and enhance the service currently in place, in particular the inspection regime. Yesterday, I mentioned to the Taoiseach five areas that have had no inspectors for the past while, namely, Dublin south city, Sligo-Leitrim, Louth, Cavan and north Monaghan. Can the Tánaiste indicate a specific timeline for the filling of vacancies in those areas where there are no inspectors to carry out any inspection of child care facilities? I am sure he will agree this is unacceptable, so will he confirm that these vacancies will be filled immediately and a timeline will be outlined?

In regard to the crèches that were the subject of the RTE investigative programme, will funding be cut from them, given the serious breaches of regulations that were uncovered? Does the Tánaiste find it acceptable that the crèches concerned, in particular those under Garda investigation, should remain open while under investigation? Should their activities be suspended pending the outcome of such investigations or, alternatively, should significant additional safeguards be put in to protect children in those crèches? Would the Tánaiste agree that CCTV cameras should be introduced immediately in all crèches? Currently, two out of three have CCTV in place.

I refer to the 50,000 children who are minded in their homes by private childminders. In the original heads of the children first Bill, head 4 did not provide for training, licensing or any kind of inspection regime. Will these be include in the actual Bill? The legislation is a key issue. I have not received specific confirmation in terms of the timeline for the children first Bill - when can we expect it? My understanding is that the heads were published some time ago but the legislation has gone back to the drawing board.

I refer to the child and family agency concerning which, again, there is no clear timeline as to when legislation will be published and enacted. Considered objectively, and given the suggested timeline for the legislation, it looks as if that agency will not be established until well into 2014. We need urgent clarification on the legislative area, particularly for the children first legislation and the child and family support agency.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I agree with Deputy Martin that what was shown in the "Prime Time" programme was shocking and hard to watch. It is completely unacceptable. It is every parent's worse nightmare that the child care facility to which they entrust their children may not be treating those children appropriately. It must be pointed out there are many very good child care service and facilities in this country which operate well. It is clear, however, that some of the operators have let the children and their parents down, particularly so in circumstances where parents are paying a hell of a lot of money to these facilities to mind their children.

I spoke with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, this morning. We agree this issue must be addressed with urgency and are determined it will be resolved. In the first instance, the crèche facilities that were the subject of the television programme are now the subject of both HSE and Garda investigations. A number of things must, and will be, done quickly. First, there will be a facility whereby the inspection reports that are made on child care facilities will be published online so that parents can see for the reports for themselves. Second, Deputy Martin asked about the areas where currently there are no inspectors. The intention is that the inspection regime will be managed on a national basis and the Minister has asked Gordon Jeyes to look at ways in which that can be done so that all areas of the country can be inspected properly. A system of registration will be introduced to replace the existing system of notification and this will be done by the child and family support agency. The intention is for that system to be in place within a reasonably short time. A report will be done on the for-profit child care sector and analysis will be made on all inspection reports presented to date to establish what the patterns are and what needs to be done. The issue of qualifications for child care workers is being examined. It is the Minister's view that FETAC level 5 is probably too low and needs to be increase.

I appreciate the suggestions Deputy Martin has made. He stated this is an issue we need to resolve and that we must work together to do so.

The issue of the inspection regime is being addressed immediately to ensure an inspection regime is in place across the country. In the case of crèches which are not complying with the required standards, the funding can and, I believe, should be cut. In respect of the crèches which are subject to investigation, I hope the investigations are concluded quickly and that the necessary action is taken as a result. I agree that CCTV should be used in crèche facilities. The wider issue of child care provision will be addressed under the registration regime that will be introduced.

10:40 am

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am still unclear on the legislative timelines. The Taoiseach indicated on the Order of Business to our spokesman, Deputy Troy, that the heads of the child and family agency Bill were approved by the Cabinet last November. It is now June and I am not clear as to whether the Bill will be published before the end of July. It may be useful to ask an all-party committee to consider that Bill and the Children First Bill to accelerate their preparation and tease out any issues that may be delaying publication. I do not know whether fundamental issues need to be addressed, but I am not getting a clear timeline on either Bill.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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They are making it up as they go.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I mentioned the 50,000 children who are being minded privately in homes across the country because they were apparently not covered by the initial heads of the Children First Bill. Issues clearly arise in that sector given the breach of trust that has been exposed in the creches under investigation.

The issue of when Garda investigations take place is very serious. I acknowledge, to be fair, that we are not dealing with the types of abuse experienced in other institutions in the past but when allegations were made about individuals in these settings and the Garda commenced a formal investigative process, people were suspended from interacting with children while the investigations were under way. The crèches under investigation should either remain closed while the investigations are ongoing or else additional interventions should be made by the HSE and others to remove any doubt that the children in their care may be vulnerable to emotional abuse or cruelty. The response has to be robust to send a clear message that the kind of behaviour uncovered is unacceptable and has consequences. That in itself would help immediately by sending a wake up call to every facility, including the many good ones. The response to the events that have been uncovered should signify a watershed in how these unacceptable activities are dealt with.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I agree with that absolutely. The incidents shown in the television programme require immediate action and an absolute determination to deal with these unacceptable practices. At a minimum, parents leaving their children in child care facilities need to know they will be safe and not mistreated, and we are determined to put in place a regime that ensures safety and proper treatment.

The intention is to publish both Bills this session. Certain policy issues that arose in the Oireachtas committee are being considered. I agree that the Bills could be considered at an early stage and I know the Joint Committee on Health and Children is due to meet on 11 June and intends to bring in the HSE and conduct meetings on what happened and the issues arising from the programme. A way can be found to allow it to also address the heads of the Bills.

The Garda investigation has to take its course but I spoke with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs this morning and we are determined that the investigations will be completed quickly. There will be a firm response to the outcome of those investigations. In respect of continued funding of child care facilities that are found wanting, that funding can be cut and there is a determination to ensure we are not applying taxpayers' money to facilities that are not operating properly.

We need to be clear that what was shown on the television programme is utterly unacceptable to the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, to me and to the Government. We will deal with the matters arising quickly.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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As the Tánaiste noted, the images shown on the "Prime Time" exposé were unacceptable and people across the board have expressed deep shock. The reality, however, is that we have been here before. This is not the first occasion on which maltreatment in crèche facilities has come to light. Six or seven years ago serious issues were identified and since 2008 problems with under staffing, inadequate supervision and failures in vetting have been identified. As these facts emerged, Governments were appalled, horrified and shocked. They promised speedy reform, the publication of inspection reports, beefed up inspection regimes and a renewed focus on quality, but nothing was done and the responses were far from robust. Children have been let down not only by the operators of these crèches but also by the Government.

What we saw on Tuesday night is a direct consequence of the relegation of carers and caring to the second division. I regret to say that in many of the decisions taken by the current Government, the trend of undervaluing and, in some cases, undermining carers and their work has continued.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday, the Taoiseach said that the brand image of child care was of the highest standard. I am not sure what he meant by "brand image" but he is part of the same Government that is advertising on its JobBridge website positions for child care workers in organisations, including an advertisement from Giraffe child care, one of the brands associated with this scandal, seeking interns with no experience to work with children for €50 per week. What is that about and how does the Tánaiste square it with his proclaimed commitment to quality and safety for children? State funding should not go to any facility that does not conform to the highest standards of inspection, regulation, qualification and quality care.

I note that he is being very careful on this issue. He stated that funding can and should be stopped. We need to hear that funding will be stopped. If he is not prepared to say that clearly, he has no prospect of restoring parents' confidence or protecting the good reputation of the many quality child care providers which operate across the country.

I ask him to square the circle for me. How is it that €50 per week for an untrained and unqualified person is appropriate? Why are these jobs advertised on JobBridge and why is he so coy on current and future funding? I ask him to state clearly that funding will be stopped where regulations are breached.

10:50 am

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The last thing parents need if they are concerned this morning about leaving their child in a child care facility after what they saw on television on Tuesday night is for this issue to be turned into a political football in the House. We have a problem that needs to be resolved. It will be resolved and there is an obligation on everybody to work to do so. The Government established a dedicated Department of Children and Youth Affairs to deal with issues associated with children.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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It also cut carer's allowance.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is a very serious issue which must be dealt with and the issues raised in Tuesday's television programme will be dealt with.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Why did it take RTE to find out what was happening?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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To answer Deputy McDonald's question directly, if we have the power to cut funding, it will be cut where standards are not being maintained.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Government cut €10 from child benefit.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Government will not tolerate circumstances in which taxpayers' money is being used to subsidise facilities where children are not being treated properly. Let me be absolutely clear about that.

On the issue of inspections, as I stated, work is being done on a national regime for inspections and an analysis is being conducted of the inspections carried out to date. The results of inspections will be published online in order that parents can see exactly what was found.

With regard to the Deputy's remark about JobBridge, of the three facilities referred to in the programme, two have never had JobBridge interns, while the third had an intern whose internship finished in April this year.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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This is not a matter of a political football but one of accountability, good governance and setting the minds of parents at ease. Rather than listening to the same old story, parents must hear a genuine and urgent commitment to ensure quality of care for children.

My question on JobBridge was not framed in the past tense. I am asking the Tánaiste about positions that are being advertised on the JobBridge website today. As I stated, these positions pay €50 per week and are for people who do not have qualifications. Why are these posts being advertised on the JobBridge website? How on earth could it be appropriate to do so? It was never appropriate and it is even less appropriate given the outrage and shock the Tánaiste's expressed in response to the "Prime Time" programme.

Sinn Féin welcomed the decision to appoint a Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. However, the Minister has been in place for two and a half years, which is a long time in the lifespan of a child. How many children have completed preschool care in crèches in that period?

While I have no doubt the Tánaiste was horrified by Tuesday night's television programme, there is no point expressing horror about breaches of regulations or giving such a clear commitment to proper standards and the safety and protection of children in child care when JobBridge, a Government website, is advertising yellow pack posts which pay €50 per week for child care workers. Our children are worth and deserve more than that and their parents expect better than that.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On the JobBridge issue, no JobBridge positions will be approved for any of the facilities that were named in the "Prime Time" programme.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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JobBridge positions should not be approved for any child care facility.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Let us be clear about the issue the Deputy raised; JobBridge posts will not be approved for any of the facilities that were named in the programme.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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In that case, children in other child care facilities can have yellow pack care.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On the wider issue the Deputy raised, it is correct that the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs has been in place for two years but a hell of a lot of progress has been made in those two years. We are at the point where legislation is about to be introduced. As I indicated to Deputy Martin, the Children First guidelines will be placed on a statutory basis and a regime will be introduced whereby child care facilities will not only have to be notified to the Health Service Executive, as is currently the case, but will have to be registered with the child and family agency, which is in the process of being established. The reports of the inspections will be published and work to prepare for the publication of inspection reports has been under way for some time. This work did not wait for the television programme to be broadcast. Arrangements are also being made for inspections to be carried out nationwide.

There is an absolute determination on the part of the Government, in particular, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, to deal not only with the problems highlighted in the "Prime Time" programme, but also issues that have been highlighted in inspection reports. Nobody should be in any doubt about that.

On the issue of accountability, as I stated, the Joint Committee on Health and Children is due to hold hearings on 11 June, at which it will hear evidence from officials from the Health Service Executive, those involved in child care provision and the Minister. The issues arising from the legislation can also be discussed. We will have full accountability and transparency in this matter because parents and especially the children attending child care facilities deserve no less.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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It would be wrong to allow this occasion to pass without registering the treachery that was committed yesterday by the Government, in particular, the Labour Party, in ramming through the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill. The Tánaiste is a former ITGWU official and member of a party that emerged from battles over the right to join a trade union of one's choice that brought this city to a standstill. That he would support a Bill designed to threaten workers that should they dare to say "No" again, they would be met by further cuts is almost unbelievable and a new low for a party that we did not believe could sink any lower.

It is a peculiar form of democracy, where one speaks of free engagement and negotiation, when the Government effectively offers workers a gun and tells them to either shoot themselves or it will blow their heads off. This approach is becoming an all too common feature of the Labour Party in government. It is exactly the same position it took with the hated home tax when it told people to hand over the money or it would forcibly deduct it from them with penalties. The Labour Party has become the promoter of dictatorial legislation because it knows it has lost the battle for the hearts and minds of ordinary people and does not have a mandate for the policies it is trying to ram through. Where is the Government's emergency legislation in the public interest to deal with the multinational corporations which only pay 2% taxation or the massive salaries and bonuses of bankers? It is nowhere to be seen because the Labour Party is not only complicit in these attacks but at the forefront of them.

The Bill passed by the Government last night goes far beyond a wage cut. It undermines fundamental trade union principles, namely, the right to negotiate one's terms and conditions of employment and the right to join a trade union. The Government has denied these rights to a section of the public service and gone even further by introducing enabling legislation that will allow a future Minister to change the terms and conditions of public sector employees. The Tánaiste and his colleagues, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, and Deputies Keaveney and Wall earned their living from the trade union movement. Half the Deputies opposite used trade union members' funds to get elected before betraying them in this House by introducing anti-union legislation.

11:00 am

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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They are still taking the money.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Is the Government going to enforce legislation against unions such as the TUI, the ASTI and the CPSU, which have all made a stand against it? There are more than two choices.

Photo of Gerald NashGerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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They got a bargain.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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They may not decide to shoot themselves or to allow the Government to shoot them. They may, in the public interest, turn the gun on this Administration. They will have all of our support if they do so.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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There is a great deal of shooting going on.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Guns and roses.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Labour Party will not take lectures from a Deputy who could not remain in a party with only two members.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Tánaiste's party has lost a few members.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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There may be only two members left in it when this Government is done, namely, the Tánaiste and Deputy Rabbitte.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Deputy Clare Daly is right-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Order, please. The Tánaiste should be allowed to respond.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----in that I do have experience of trade union work. From that experience I learned that the first thing any member of a trade union wants is his or her job. It cannot have escaped the Deputy's attention that this Government is engaged in protecting employment. In this instance, it is seeking to protect employment within the public service. The second thing one must have before one comes to address the issue of pay is the means to actually pay people. This country was on the edge of bankruptcy when the Government took office. Since we came to power we have been obliged to work to restore the country's finances in order that we will be in a position to pay the wages and salaries of those who work in the public service and to ensure that public services will be maintained. As the Deputy knows, the approach we have taken has been to negotiate with the trade unions. However, those unions rejected the offer that was put on the table in the first instance and that is why we entered into a second round of negotiations. I compliment Mr. Kieran Mulvey and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, on the work they did in negotiating settlements with each of the individual unions.

Pay reductions will be on a scaled basis. This means that the core pay of those on under €65,000 per annum will not be reduced. Pay above that amount will be reduced on a scaled basis. We are of the view that where pay reductions are necessary, they must be introduced on a graduated basis and those on the highest levels of pay must bear the greatest burden.

Legislating in respect of multinational corporations and the payment of tax must be done on an international basis. When I attended the ministerial meeting of the OECD yesterday, I signed our commitment to the international effort being made to deal with the issue of tax avoidance - either by individuals or companies - on an international scale. We support the efforts in which the OECD is engaging in order to deal with this problem. In the course of our current Presidency of the European Union, we have managed to secure agreement on a regulation to place a cap on the remuneration of bankers on an EU-wide basis.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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The history books will show that I have been a member of fewer political parties than the Tánaiste. One difference between us is that I remain on the right side of the barricades and have not crossed over to the enemy camp. I do not believe the Tánaiste will be able to state the same on his CV.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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We thought the Deputy had abandoned Leon Trotsky.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Eric ByrneEric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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Will Deputy Daly give me a copy of Leon Trotsky's memoirs?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Better Leon Trotsky than Joseph Stalin.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Clare Daly should be allowed to continue, without interruption.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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The problem is that there is a major discrepancy between the Tanaiste's words, on one hand, and the reality that exists, on the other. Perhaps it is because he has been hanging around so much with those in Fine Gael that he has become almost indistinguishable from them. It has not escaped my notice that 87,000 people have been forced to leave this country, that we have massive levels of unemployment and that last month was the third worst for retail sales since the crisis began. It is beyond me how taking €300 million out of the pockets of public sector workers and millions more from homeowners in the form of a property tax is going to lead to growth and benefit the private sector. The Tánaiste referred to freely negotiating. If the Government freely negotiated this deal, then why does it not let workers vote on it? What the Government has done is to introduce legislation which will have a similar - if not greater - impact as the deal in the event that public sector workers freely reject it. Are there any lengths to which the Tánaiste will not go in order to protect the wealthy in this society from a fair system of taxation?

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Rubbish.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Why did the Government not implement a 48% tax rate on incomes over €100,000? Such a move would have yielded an amount equivalent to that which it will accrue in the aftermath of the butchery it has perpetrated in respect of public sector workers.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We introduced the largest amount of wealth taxes ever in the budget and the Deputy voted against them.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Wealth taxes. They are taxes on debt.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Government is even taxing hearses.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is all very well to mouth off about wealth taxes and then vote against proposals relating to such taxes when they are put to the House.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Give us a break.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Why is Deputy Clare Daly encouraging those who live in mansions worth over €1 million not to pay property tax? That is pure hypocrisy.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is pure dishonesty. We proposed a wealth tax and it is well the Tánaiste knows it.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The number of people who are unemployed has not escaped my notice. I hope it will not escape the Deputy's notice that we are making some modest progress in this regard. The quarterly national household survey - which is being published about now - will show that during the past year the private sector has created over 2,000 jobs per month. That is in stark contrast with the 250,000 jobs that were lost in the three years before we took office. The survey will also show that, for the first time since we came to power, the unemployment has dropped below 14% and stands at 13.7%. That is still too high, particularly in view of the fact that so many young people are unemployed.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is because half the population has left the country.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is why we are taking action to deal with the problem of youth unemployment.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Some 300,000 people have emigrated.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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When I attended its ministerial meeting yesterday, I agreed with the Secretary General of the OECD that we will work together on a youth action plan for this country. That plan will be part of the youth guarantee that has been agreed at European Union level. On Tuesday, when I was negotiating the European Union budget for the next seven years, I proposed that the money which is available to address youth unemployment and which will have an impact in this country should be frontloaded in 2014 and 2015 in order that we might deal with this critical problem on a more urgent basis.

It is not enough just to talk, moan and complain about the problem-----

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste did that for five years.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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He has been doing it for many years.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----to condemn those trying to deal with it or to hide behind a barricade.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Correct.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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No ballot.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste is actually engaging in an attack on himself and his own record.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It takes a great deal more-----

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Tánaiste is still running from his past.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thought we had moved past the stage of shouting people down.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----to actually deal with the problem.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Like burning the bondholders.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I sometimes get the impression that Deputy Clare Daly would be happier if our problems got worse-----

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Correct.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----and if people remained unemployed in order that she might continue to complain.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is time we solved the unemployment problem, got people back to work, attracted investment, created jobs and encouraged people to move on with their lives. That is what the Government is determined to do.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear. Well said.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It is time to move out.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Complaining and moaning does not get one anywhere.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That completes Leaders' Questions.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste has just receive a ringing endorsement from Deputy Durkan.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Let us not forget to what the Government of which Deputy Martin was a member signed us up.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Will the Deputy be appearing on Vincent Browne's show?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I honestly believed that two and a half years into the lifetime of this Dáil Members would have realised that they will get nowhere by shouting down other people.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Ceann Comhairle should inform Deputy Durkan of that fact.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We live in democracy and people, including Deputy Mattie McGrath, are entitled to make their points and ask questions.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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They should also listen to the answers provides by the person to whom the questions are directed. We will not proceed to the Business.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Ceann Comhairle is quite right.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Ceann Comhairle has the support of Deputy Boyd Barrett.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is dangerous to apologise in here because one could have a motion of no confidence tabled against one.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Tánaiste should not be giving us ideas.