Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this Topical Issue. It arises from a request by many constituents of mine, and many families around the country, for the Government to explain its policy on fee-charging schools. These constituents object to the recent decision by the Government to increase the pupil-teacher ratio in selected schools, which they feel have been singled out. They are referred to as fee-charging schools. There are 55 such schools in Ireland with more than 25,000 students currently attending them.

The Government is increasing the pupil-teacher ratio from 20:1 to 23:1 starting in September 2013. My constituents contend that the Labour Party is putting significant pressure on Fine Gael to increase that ratio further by 2015, given the publicly stated policy to withdraw all public funding from fee-charging schools.

The constituents have highlighted a number of areas of concern, including the mandate. Neither in the 2011 manifestos of Fine Gael and the Labour Party, nor in the programme for Government 2011-2016, are there references to an increase in the pupil-teacher ratio for the small group of schools singled out for attention - as they contend - in such an inequitable manner. They have asked us to explain from whom the Fine Gael and Labour parties received their election mandate for these recent actions.

Under the heading "The Economics of Education", they point out that the independent report from PwC in 2011 concluded that there is a saving to the State for each student enrolled in a free-charging school. Without getting into the specifics, the key point is that the parents of students attending fee-paying schools reduce the cost to the State and the rest of the tax-paying population by contributing to the cost of educating their children.

If ten of the 55 schools were to close - which is not an unrealistic assumption, given the recent trend - that would affect 5,000 students. Can the Government indicate what would be the increased cost to the State over a six-year period, including salaries, capitation grants and other school financial supports? Bearing in mind that those students would transfer to schools with a pupil-teacher ratio of 20, what would be the cost if all 55 schools closed?

The Government has announced 275 major schools building projects as part of a €2 billion investment programme to address the 70,000 additional students coming through the system up to 2018. This includes 43 new and 65 large extensions to second-level schools. Given that the increased capacity being developed is not intended to accommodate students coming into the system due to the closure of these schools, can the Minister of State advise whether these factors are now being considered? What would be the potential shortfall in capacity, as well as the additional capital cost, if ten of the 55 schools closed?

The representations also cover employment. The 55 schools in the fee-paying sector employ approximately 600 additional teachers and 600 other persons across a range of services, including administration, catering, facilities management. That is beyond what would be employed in a non-fee charging school. This amounts to 1,200 valuable direct jobs and probably the same number in indirect employment in what is a damaged economy. These jobs are sustained through the fees paid by parents across all these schools. What is the policy in attempting to protect the employment of these people in the context of 430,000 unemployed on the live register? What has been the reaction of the teachers' unions to this policy direction which threatens their members' jobs?

These schools have their own facilities and share them with GAA clubs, community groups, and other neighbouring sports clubs. If these schools were to close it would make a very big dent in the amenities provided by them across the country.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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On behalf of my colleague the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, I thank Deputy Mathews for giving me an opportunity to outline to the House the position concerning the issue he has raised.

This Government has protected frontline services in schools to the greatest extent possible in the recent budget, and there will be no reduction in teacher numbers in primary schools and in free second-level schools for the 2013-14 school year as a result of the budget. The DEIS scheme for disadvantaged schools is also fully protected with no overall changes to staffing levels or funding as a result of the budget.

At post-primary level and in order to promote fairness in funding second-level schools, a two-point increase in the pupil-teacher ratio in fee-charging second-level schools will be introduced in September 2013. Currently, 55 schools out of 723 post-primary schools are charging fees ranging from €2,550 to €10,065 for day pupils.

The State pays the salaries of one teacher for every 21 pupils in these schools compared with one teacher for every 19 pupils in schools in the free education scheme. A ratio of 18.25 pupils to one teacher, applies in DEIS schools. This will rise to 23:1 in fee-charging schools from September 2013. However, these schools have the resources, through fees charged, to employ teachers privately, an option which is not available to schools in the free education scheme. A report on the analysis of the tuition income of fee-charging schools carried out by the Department of Education and Skills was recently published and shows that the schools in question have €81 million in discretionary income that schools in the free scheme do not have. The report contains no policy proposals at this stage. However, even after the budget changes are implemented, the discretionary income available to these schools will still be quite considerable.

There are some concerns within the Church of Ireland community on the recent budget measure affecting fee-charging schools. This Government recognises the importance of ensuring that students from a Protestant or reformed church background can attend a school that reflects their denominational ethos while at the same time ensuring that funding arrangements are in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution. How best to sustain education provision for widely dispersed and small local communities presents as a particular challenge, especially in any locality where enrolment is declining to single figures. The Government is intent on fostering pluralism in school provision. Supporting small communities including minorities in maintaining their schools is part of that policy.

Regarding the fee-charging Protestant schools, an arrangement exists whereby funding is provided by the Department of Education and Skills to the Secondary Education Committee, SEC, an organisation run by the churches involved in managing the Protestant secondary schools. The SEC then disburses funds to the Protestant fee-charging schools on behalf of pupils who would otherwise have difficulty with the cost of fees and who, in the absence of such financial support, would be unable to attend a second-level school of a reformed church or Protestant ethos. Funding amounts to €6.5 million annually. This fund ensures that necessitous Protestant children can attend a school of their choice.

The Minister for Education and Skills and the relevant Department officials will continue to engage with the relevant education sector stakeholders, including the Church of Ireland and boards of education, regarding education provision for all areas.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I want to go over the broad statistical parameters. There are 55 fee-paying schools, comprising 32 Roman Catholic, 20 Protestant, two interdenominational and one Jewish. If ten of those schools were to close, 5,000 students would be affected. The cost for a student in a fee-paying school is €4,500 per year, but €8,000 per year in a non-fee-paying school. There is an immediate jump up there that would be a big dent in the State's finances. The format to date has been the most successful public private partnership in Ireland over the years. To start revisiting, dismantling or weakening it would be a backward step. The constituents feel this, and make their case very well. We should put a brake on this and revisit the fundamental fabric of what is going on here.

One cannot sufficiently emphasise that the facilities of many of these schools are shared throughout the communities with clubs, local communities, sports clubs, swimming pools etc. That is a very important non-measurable advantage for society. If ten schools were to close, there would be a very big impact of at least 1,200 direct employees suffering job losses and maybe a further 1,200 in indirect losses. I ask the Minister to revisit these matters with a very acute mind and multidimensional understanding of the situation. From a political point of view the 25,000 students have 50,000 parents and probably a cohort of 150,000 past pupils who value the schools and would not like to see them damaged or undermined in any way. That is a large population of electorate who will be affected.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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Since Donogh O'Malley introduced the free secondary schools scheme back in the 1960s it has been the overarching policy of the State to provide free secondary school education to all students. My view, shared by the Minister, is that the scarce resources available should be deployed in a manner that ensures we have the broadest possible level of provision across the board for all students and that we should try to ensure as best we can equality of input and opportunity for all students across the country irrespective of where they are or what the income of their families may be. There is a cost to the State in providing fee-charging schools entering the free scheme, and this has come up in a study mentioned by Deputy Mathews. I do not know if there is any question of schools closing as the Deputy suggested. Where fee-charging schools enter into the free scheme I respectfully suggest to the House that the cost that has been suggested as being associated with such a move has been greatly exaggerated in some reports.

At a time of reduced resources we must prioritise where valuable State resources would be focused and the Minister for Education and Skills has signalled, through these budget measures, that his focus must be on schools that do not have an income stream available to them, as the fee-charging schools do.