Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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50. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if he has received impact assessments in relation to the likely impact of the PTR change planned this September for the further education sector; his views on these assessments; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25506/13]

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Impact statements on the effect of the regression in the pupil-teacher ratio for the post leaving certificate, PLC, programme were received from 17 vocational education committees, VEC.

VECs reported in their impact statements that they would have difficulty reassigning surplus teachers and that their ability to provide new innovative courses would be limited. Some VECs who had been enrolling above their allocation reported that they would not be able to maintain this level of enrolment. A review of all impact statements received was conducted having regard to the need to operate within overall budgetary constraints and the employment control framework. Following the review, some alleviation, as I already outlined to Deputy Ó Snodaigh, of the reduction in teaching posts is being allowed as a transitional measure in those VECs losing six posts or more.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State should clarify what alleviation has been provided. He mentioned ten posts previously, but I believe they were specific to County Dublin Vocational Education Committee, and he might outline what alleviation is being offered to other VECs. The provision of some alleviation is a sign of the impact this cut is having. At the time of its implementation, I tabled a Private Members' motion in this Chamber on behalf of my party to highlight the impact of the increase in the pupil-teacher ratio for further education from 17:1 to 19:1, namely, that more than 200 whole-time equivalent posts would be taken out of the further education sector, as well as the impact this would have on many colleges. It was the wrong way to go about it and this alleviation is unlikely to undo some of the damage that will be done by the increase in the pupil-teacher ratio. Has the Minister of State received feedback from those VECs to which the additional temporary posts have been assigned on how they think this will address the problems they have highlighted to him and the impact assessments they have drawn up?

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I will quickly go through the detail for each individual VEC that submitted an application for alleviation. There are 25 posts nationwide, of which ten are for the City of Dublin VEC. Five posts are for the City of Cork VEC, three for Dún Laoghaire VEC and one post each for the VECs of County Cork, County Cavan, the city of Galway, County Louth, County Wicklow, County Dublin and the city of Limerick. At the outset of this process to reduce the number of posts available, no-one denied it would have an impact. No-one believed other than this would be the case. The Government did not suggest it would not be the case and the fact it allowed this alleviation process to commence and allowed the aforementioned window of time to commence this alleviation process was a strong indication the Government believed it would have an impact.

While Deputy McConalogue is not keen to revisit history, the previous Government signed up to a memorandum of understanding with the troika, included within which was a requirement - not an aspiration but an obligation - to find €350 million of savings in the Department of Education and Skills between the years 2010 and 2014. Each one of these has had a negative impact and no one is denying that for a moment. However, the Government has attempted to minimise the impact as best it can. One reason it considered this reduction in the pupil-teacher ratio for adults - most of those accessing these courses are adults - was to minimise the impact on the young people in the education system, that is, those in primary or post-primary, and to allocate the resources in the most fair and just way possible.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The troika is not an excuse for this kind of thing. The troika documents are littered with talk of structural reform and I simply cannot discern how either the Minister of State or the troika could possibly justify these cuts, which will have an adverse impact on the ability of the State to educate and retrain people, particularly those in the further education sector who are among those least well-served by the mainstream education system.

Moreover, alleviation is not enough because it was implied that changing the teacher-pupil ratio from 1:17 to 1:19 simply would mean two additional people in a class. However, as the Minister of State is aware and as those who are involved in the sector have made clear, that is not the impact. Potentially, up to 500 teaching posts will be lost because people work part-time on a rota basis and so on and this could mean whole swathes of courses will be wiped out. As the Minister of State has acknowledged, many schools already are enrolling student numbers well over the caps and were under-resourced even before these cuts came in. Consequently, the impact on the capacity of the sector to provide a service to those who need it most and to sectors of Irish society that need it most in the current economic climate will be extremely significant. This simply cannot be justified and alleviation is not enough. These cuts must be reversed because there is simply no justification or rationale for them.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State announced 25 additional or alleviation posts. Can he indicate the full number of job losses, whether full time or part time?

I presume the 17 vocational education committees that supplied the Minister of State with documentation would have explained the full extent of the cuts. The information I have is that hundreds of teaching posts would be affected. I am not sure whether they are full-time or part-time but I know that Ballyfermot College of Further Education indicated that ten whole-time posts would be affected by the change.

The Minister mentioned also that these 25 posts would be allowed as a transitional measure. What is intended will happen at the end of the next year, that is, June of 2014? Will those 25 positions remain or will they be withdrawn at that stage?

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I am interested to hear from the Minister of State if the VECs that provided him with the impact assessments indicated that the 25 posts he is now allocating on a transitional basis will ensure they would not have to discontinue any courses. From my engagement with them I would be very surprised if that was the case. The education committee visited Ballyfermot College of Further Education recently and its staff were very concerned about the impact of this measure. In terms of the cap, they have been enrolling numbers well over the cap, but as a result of this increase, they may not be able to do that any more. That means students will not now be able to engage in the further education sector as a result of this particular cut. It is those students who need our help because in many cases they would have been failed by the system in the past. It also affects students who are looking to make themselves ready for the work sector and for whom colleges like Ballyfermot College of Further Education has a strong track record in finding employment.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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To answer Deputy Ó Snodaigh's question about the number of posts, we do not have that information to hand. I do not know if that was secured or sought from the VECs but we can determine if it was, and if the information is to hand, we can get it to the Deputy.

The reason these alleviation posts were agreed to was to minimise the reduction in courses available, particularly to those who were on the unemployment register. We also asked the VECs and the colleges of further education to ensure that if reductions in course provision were necessary, they would do a forensic analysis of all their course provision to ensure the courses that were most topical, timely and responding in the best possible manner to labour market skills shortages would be retained. I would be confident that the VECs have the capacity to be able to do that.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh asked what might arise next year. Once we arrive at this point next year, our 33 VECs will have been subsumed into 16 education and training boards, ETBs. We are confident that the significant economies of scale and efficiencies that will be achieved through that process will not give rise to a similar situation arising next year.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The posts being allowed as a transitional measure are permanent posts.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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That is my understanding.