Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the latest uptake with regard to the micro enterprise fund; the number of jobs that have been supported by this investment to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18668/13]

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the targets for loan applications and rates of successful loans under the Microenterprise Loan Fund; and the cost to date in the administration or management of this scheme. [18609/13]

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the steps taken to ensure that the targets for additional leveraged funds for the Microenterprise Loan Fund are realised. [18610/13]

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 94, 129 and 130 together.

Microfinance Ireland, or MFI, was incorporated pursuant to the Microenterprise Loan Fund Act 2012. MFI has just compiled its report for the first six months of the scheme's operation, from 1 October 2012 to 31 March 2013. The full report will be published shortly on my Department's website and the website of Microfinance Ireland. In the spirit of openness and transparency, it is my intention to ensure reports will in future be compiled on a quarterly basis.

When presenting the legislation to the Oireachtas, the Government indicated that over the lifetime of the ten-year scheme it was expected that over €90 million in additional lending would be provided to 5,500 microenterprises with the creation of an expected 7,700 jobs. From the report of the first six months of operation, of the 149 applications received by Microfinance Ireland, some 44 were approved, 58 were declined, 13 were withdrawn, two were appealed and 32 are works in progress. To the end of March, the scheme has supported 116 jobs and 44 microenterprises.

This is a new scheme and it has yet to achieve its potential. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, has been actively promoting the scheme in the context of area meetings he is conducting across the country as part of the Action Plan for Jobs. He is also taking the opportunity to meet the local enterprise offices that will promote the service in every county to discuss its promotion and their experience with it. The Minister has discussed its progress with the chair of Microfinance Ireland and he is shortly meeting Microfinance Ireland to evaluate its experience and how the scheme can be made more accessible. The key to promotion of the take-up of this, and other initiatives, is the establishment of the first stop shop at local level. Work on this is well advanced and the new approach will soon be rolled out in a number of early mover centres.

Microfinance Ireland is a private limited company, a subsidiary of Social Finance Foundation, SFF. Its day to day costs are an operational matter for the company and the board. In accordance with the provisions of the Microenterprise Loan Fund Act, the accounts of the company will be audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General and will be laid before the Oireachtas. The cost for 2012 was €461,000, which includes one-off set-up costs of €278,000.

With regard to the cost of both microfinance and the credit guarantee schemes, Exchequer gains in terms of employment sustained and created, savings on welfare payments and increased direct and indirect tax payments have been calculated at €23,000 per job. On this basis, I am satisfied that the costs of both schemes have already been more than offset. In respect of leveraging additional private sector funds to supplement the State's injection in MFI, MFI through its parent SFF has begun discussions with three banks about leveraging further funds this year.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I remind Members that one minute is allowed for questions and one minute for answers.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Three questions were taken together. Does that not mean the cumulative amount is greater?

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It does not matter. The supplementary questions, per Deputy, are for one minute, with one minute for answers and Deputies can come in as many times as they like on that basis.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I beg the forgiveness of the Chairman. Many questions have been referred to different Departments and there is a suggestion in the replies that we should table questions to different Ministers. The whole notion of the Action Plan for Jobs was a whole of Government approach. Deputy Peadar Tóibín and other Deputies cannot be coming in to the Chamber three days every week trying to ask questions of individual Ministers. Is there some way we can co-ordinate questions so that the Minister of State with responsibility for jobs can bring the information back? We can discuss this again.

I did not get the exact figure for the money lent. Some 116 jobs were created. Advertisements have started running to promote the micro-finance scheme only in the past two weeks even though we are six months into it. Since it was launched, I have been calling for wider promotion of the scheme. Yesterday, at a meeting of the jobs committee in Ballinasloe, the feedback on the scheme was that it is too expensive. I have said this before and I am aware of the issue concerning unsecured loans, which means it must be expensive. However, it is more expensive than what the banks are charging.

A point that can be addressed quicker is the three-year payback. Many people are reluctant to commit to a three-year payback given where their businesses are. If that issue can be examined, it may make the scheme more accessible. There remains a complete lack of awareness about the scheme. It is too expensive and the conditions frighten people away. What is the target in terms of the delivery of jobs? Has the target been revised downwards given the poor take-up to date?

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Taking the last question first, the number of applications was 149 and the total value was €2.78 million.

It was set up as a private limited company but the intention is to deliver on the ambition of the target over a ten-year period. The Minister will launch the roll out of the one-stop-shop in every facility and obviously its promotion is very important. That will probably generate engagement on the ground. In regard to the cost of the scheme, it is a not-for-profit one. The rate is at 8.8%. There is a high risk to the loan. People have been refused by the banks. Very good evaluation is being carried out. To ensure it is successful, it is very important there is a level of monitoring for the applicant once he or she gets the funding. It is not the intention to erase current bank lending but loans for less than €25,000 are available for sole traders who cannot avail of conventional banking.

People with start-up companies are delighted to get it. There was a company in my office last evening which is very much depending on getting the €25,000-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Not enough people are getting it.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I think people have been very reluctant to make applications.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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People do not know about it.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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It is about engaging on the ground. The local enterprise offices will be the promoters on the ground engaging with businesses initially to get them started and leveraging with other banks as well.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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What is the term of the loan?

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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There is a three year term currently. It is a recyclable loan. It should be possible to return €25,000 over three years, based on the business plan. That is approximately €8,000 per year.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Every second week we hear of another plan to create so many jobs. When the Government came to power it said it would create 100,000 net new jobs. In fact, in the past year, 1,200 net new jobs were created. It also said it would create 10,000 net new jobs in financial services but approximately 10,000 net jobs have been lost in this sector. This week we heard about 20,000 new jobs in manufacturing but there is no net money being brought to the table in that regard.

It is very important that we are honest and do not over-egg what is happening here. In the press statement on this ten months ago, the Minister promised that €19 million would be made available and that 7,700 new jobs would be created. In his reply, the Minister said 116 jobs were supported. He never once told us about the jobs created. Has one job been created from this so far? If he does not have that information now, can we put in place a mechanism whereby we can measure how many new jobs are created from this?

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Jobs have been created because these are new start-up companies. One must remember that 250,000 jobs were lost before we came into Government and 12,000 jobs were created by Enterprise Ireland and the IDA last year alone.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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How many new jobs have been created in the ten months of this scheme?

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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We are basing it on these figures. In the first six months of its operation, 149 loan applications were received by Microfinance Ireland. This includes 44 applications which were approved and 58 applications which were declined. Some €2.78 million has been given out. To the end of March, the scheme has supported 116 jobs.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Supported jobs are not created jobs. Supported jobs are already in existence and are being supported.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The company I met last evening will create eight new jobs. It is waiting for the application to be processed. I expect that a large percentage of the jobs supported are new jobs.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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It has not put in an application yet.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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It will be going in on Friday and I hope it will be successful. It intends to establish eight jobs in a software facility. Half of the jobs are definitely new jobs. The scheme is about supporting new jobs. We are talking about creating additional jobs over a ten-year period and 12,000 jobs were created last year.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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I agree there can be value in this project. I am not arguing that point. Sinn Féin welcomes and supports this project. We do not believe it should be a supplement for what should be happening in the banking industry but we see the value in it. The question I asked, and which the Minister has not been able to answer, is how many new jobs have been created in the ten months of this scheme. He said 116 jobs have been supported but these are jobs which could very well have been in existence.

The Minister of State may not have the answer today but, in future, we would like-----

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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There were 60 new jobs created directly.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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That is the information I was asking for.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I met representatives of banks in recent weeks. They are very much determined to support small companies. People are using the simplified application procedure operated by Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Banks and they can appeal the banks' decisions. The banks are clearly supporting viable companies and, naturally enough, are not supporting non-viable companies.

It is very easy to come up with simplistic solutions but the problem is not that simple to resolve. Obviously, one must have an understanding of the position of employers. It is not just a case of getting money to establish a job, as the company must have sufficient capacity and a sufficient base.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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There are nine people emigrating from the State every hour; the Government's programme has created six jobs every month.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I do not know how the Deputy arrives at statistics indicating how many people are emigrating per hour.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The Central Statistics Office.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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There are people emigrating by choice. I know several young people who will be quite delighted to go to the United States if they can get in, or to Canada if they have the required qualifications.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Most would be happier here at home.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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There is certain balance. For highly educated people, emigration was a matter of choice.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Most emigration is forced emigration.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Obviously, we are doing our utmost to sort out the mess in which we found the economy two years ago. One cannot just wave a magic wand. There is a definitive action plan for jobs that is encouraging enterprise. I visit companies all over the country and note it is not all doom and gloom. This morning, I was in Louth to visit an enterprise development company creating jobs. There was an opportunity for workshop development. What the company was doing for jobs on the ground was very incisive. Clearly, there are opportunities in companies that can create jobs. They are very optimistic and it is important that we note that.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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It is a bit disingenuous to suggest that many people are actually emigrating by choice. This is probably not the best time to be going to other countries. The vast majority would rather get work in Ireland.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I understand that fully.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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When one goes from door to door, one learns about the number of people struggling with emigration. I cannot come in here and highlight the negative effects of emigration enough. One might say people between 18 and 21 have chosen to take a few years out and travel the world but many people emigrating are my age and older, and they include people with children. People are taking children out of school and emigrating because both parents cannot get jobs. Emigration has a significant damaging effect on society. It breaks up the families of those affected. Significant milestones in life, such as birthdays, first Holy Communions and even weddings, happen thousands of miles away from grandparents.

Emigration also has a negative economic effect because the youthful energetic element of the economy is being removed from it. Football clubs are finding it hard to field teams. The level of emigration and the pain and suffering it has caused can never be overestimated. Emigration is a real problem and is happening daily on foot of the policies the Government is following.

Proper job creation cannot happen in this State until we get growth levels above 2%. This will not happen on the basis of depending on international markets. The Government must step into the domestic market with investment. Until this happens, we will see a stagnant labour force. The second and important point is that the other element the Government can deal with is the costs faced by businesses, including utility and rental costs and professional fees. These are not being tackled either. The county enterprise boards have been in limbo since 2008 and we still have not seen the issue they face resolved.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has all the solutions, but it is not as simple as coming up with a cocktail of solutions. It would be very simple if we could take that recipe on board. Enterprise Ireland has had the best year ever, with exports by companies it supports topping €16 billion. At the showcase I attended in Drogheda today at 8.30 a.m., there were approximately 35 companies and they are very optimistic about the future. It is a question of confidence.

We have two economies. While the international economy is doing well, there is, without doubt, a great deal of pessimism about and a lack of confidence in the domestic economy. There is a huge amount of money being saved in the economy because there is not the confidence to spend. We have been left with the legacy of an over-supply of retail developments during the boom time. The Government is doing all it can, including activating the new local enterprise offices and providing start-up funds. The many initiatives taken by the Minister to support job creation are being taken on board. It is easy for Deputy Peadar Tóibín to say nothing is being done, but the Government is doing everything it can to encourage innovation, research and development. Despite what the Deputy says, the many small high potential start-up companies which I have met - I also meet people on the doorsteps - are very optimistic. Has the Deputy met any of the high potential start-up companies? While there are always problems in business, exports are increasing. The Deputy did not recognise the figure of €16 billion in exports achieved last year by Enterprise Ireland-supported companies and the expected €1 billion in additional exports this year.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I must ask the Minister of State to conclude.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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This is important.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I know, but the Minister of State is over time.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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We are talking about lifting confidence in the domestic market. The facts are not as depressing as stated by Deputy Peadar Tóibín.