Dáil debates

Wednesday, 17 April 2013

Statute of Limitations (Amendment) Bill 2013: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]

 

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

6:05 pm

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I call Deputy Boyd Barrett who, I understand, was in possession.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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No, it is a new slot and I am sharing time with Deputies Boyd Barrett and Mattie McGrath.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thought Deputy Boyd Barrett was in possession when the debate was adjourned last night.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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No, that was not the case.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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This is a new slot for the Technical Group and Deputies Boyd Barrett, Mattie McGrath and I are sharing time.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for the confusion.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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No problem.

More than a year ago we stood here and saluted the women who have returned to the Gallery this evening. Horror was expressed at the butchery they had endured and Members indicated their shock at how society could have allowed this barbaric practice to go unchallenged. All parties expressed their resolve to rectify the damage visited upon these women and to ensure that action would be taken. In some ways it is shameful that it has taken more than 12 months to reach this point. However, it is also a tribute to the resolve of Deputy Ó Caoláin, primarily, and also to that of the survivors of symphysiotomy who have kept their battle going. Without that resolve, I do not believe we would be here today. While this is a good day - I welcome the fact the Government is not opposing the Bill - it must be stated that this is not the end of a long struggle for justice but hopefully it is the beginning of the end.

Yesterday we listened to Rita and Catherine, who were mutilated over 50 years ago. They have spent more than 50 years living with the pain and scars of what was done to them. Obviously there is nothing we can do which can undo that wrong. However, we can help the women obtain justice. The first step we must take in that regard is to vote in favour of the Bill. The second involves rejecting the claims of the Minister to the effect that this is a flawed Bill. The latter is not the case. The Bill is based on existing legislation relating to those who survived sexual abuse in residential institutions and it must be passed quickly.

We must challenge a number of the other assertions made by the Minister. I refer, for example, to his claim that the relevant services are in place to support these women. The reality is that such services are not in place. The medical needs of the survivors are not - as should be the case and as the Minister claimed - being catered for. I would like the Minister to respond to the fact that the daughter of one of the survivors left the Chamber last evening only to discover that her mother, who is in her 80s, has had her home help hours ended. The standard allocation of home help hours for these victims is one hour per week. This is an enormous issue. Some women are only obtaining 30 minutes of home help time per week. The Minister indicated that independent clinical advice is available for these women. However, they can be obliged to wait a long time to avail of such advice. Their medical expenses are not being refunded and many of them have been obliged to avail of private medical services. The facilities are just not available. Items such as incontinence supplies are provided directly by the HSE but they are of such poor quality that many of the women do not avail of them. If we are serious about giving these women the justice they deserve, then the Minister should agree to have their medical needs met. It is not true to state that the system is honouring them.

Those who say that this happened in old Ireland and that it would not happen now have obviously not tuned in to the inquest into the death of Savita Halappanavar. The medical profession has again displayed the same ethos as previously, namely, that its members know everything. It has dismissed the wishes of women and treated them as if they were commodities or objects to be experimented upon. We must address the fact that the ethos to which I refer continues to hold sway because that is the only way in which we can vindicate and honour the very brave women who are in the Gallery tonight.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is another extraordinarily dark chapter in the hidden history of this State. It only came to light as a result of the struggle of these women to bring to light the mutilation visited upon them by a medical profession influenced by a Catholic ethos which claimed to represent some notion of spirituality or holiness but under which they were treated barbarically. Some 1,500 women underwent this utterly barbaric procedure and only 200 of them remain alive. This means that 1,300 women who suffered through the procedure will never obtain justice in respect of what was done to them. I reiterate that this is just an appalling chapter in our State's history. Redress for these women cannot come soon enough.

This matter was brought to the attention of previous Governments and it is a shame that it has taken until now for action to be forthcoming. It is as a result of a long struggle on the part, crucially, of the women themselves, of those who have supported them and, finally, of people in this Parliament that we have reached this point. I commend Sinn Féin for tabling this Private Members' Bill. The fact the Government has agreed to support the legislation is obviously a positive development. It is critical that it moves quickly to ensure the women involved receive the compensation to which they are entitled and all of the supports they need and deserve. For those survivors who are still with us, these developments have come very late. In that context, there should be no foot-dragging or delay when it comes to ensuring they receive the support and redress they require. We must ensure this type of horrendous treatment of women - as Deputy Clare Daly indicated it continues to this day - is brought to an end and that the pernicious influence of a certain ethos, which can still lead to the mistreatment of women and which still lingers, is overthrown. We must ensure this sort of thing never happens again.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I too am delighted to contribute to the debate on the Bill. I compliment Deputy Ó Caoláin on his persistence in championing the cause of those victims who fought long and hard to see this day dawn. It is a pity that so many previous Governments, Members of the Oireachtas and the HSE ignored this long-standing problem. It is sad that so many of the victims have gone to their eternal reward and that only 200 survivors remain. The Government has been magnanimous in accepting the Bill. I accept that it is very late in the day but we should accept that magnanimity nonetheless. We must ensure that compensation and redress are provided swiftly and that there are no further delays or hindrances to justice for these women, who had appalling damage inflicted upon their bodies by the State. The word "barbaric" was used by previous speakers to describe what happened to these women and there is not doubt that it was barbaric. Since becoming a Member of the House, I and other colleagues have met the victims. I salute them and their families. What they have lived with for decades is simply appalling. There is no way that anything of this nature should ever be allowed to happen again in this country.

I again compliment Deputy Ó Caoláin on persisting with this matter and on drafting the legislation, which has been accepted by the Government. I hope there will be no further delays and that the Government, which displayed magnanimity in accepting the Bill, will take action and will insist that the HSE does likewise. I hope those of the victims who remain alive will obtain justice.

We should also pay a fitting tribute to the many victims who have gone to their eternal reward.

6:15 pm

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Buttimer is next with three minutes. He is sharing time with 12 Deputies.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Acting Chairman might tell me when one minute is left. I welcome and applaud the women in the Visitors Gallery. I am pleased to have become friends with a number of them. Last night, I was struck by Theresa on "The Late Debate" and the way she could tell her story with such clear recollection after all this time. Not only does it illustrate the severity of what happened, but also her magnanimity and compassion as a woman.

I had the pleasure of working with a lady in Cork University Hospital who became a good friend of mine. I will call her by her first name - Margaret. She is one of the most honest, decent and loving women with whom I have worked. She was present last night, although I am unsure as to whether she is present tonight.

With Deputy Ó Caoláin and others, I became involved in the cross-party committee on this issue because of the wrongs done to these women. I agree with a clear statement made by Deputy Boyd Barrett to the effect that he hopes that this pernicious influence in Irish society will be eradicated forever. I hope that all Deputies listen to what he said, as that influence will remain if we allow it. It must not be allowed to continue.

This is a question of women who were not only mistreated by the State, but also by the hierarchy of the political and medical classes and by the church. This can never be forgotten. I will not make a political speech. In the cross-party group's meetings, we never divided politically or became rancorous. Our motivation was the women concerned, some of whom are in the Visitors Gallery, and remains so to this day. They are the primary focus of what we are trying to do. Thankfully, the Government has committed to bringing this issue to a conclusion by the end of the year and to ensuring the women receive justice. Some opposite might shake their heads. I hope that Deputy Joan Collins is wrong in her cynicism. I want this issue to be addressed, for which reason I am speaking tonight and we have invested time to ensure it is done.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I want this addressed within one week or one month.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Time, please.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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This issue is too serious to be used as a political football. We can argue about a Bill's flaws and demerits until the cows come home. I am not a legal expert, but I want the State to do justice by the women concerned, both here in the Visitors Gallery and elsewhere, for the wrong done to them. End of argument - there can be no obfuscation. Not only do these women deserve justice, but also our thanks for the way in which they have shown compassion in telling their stories and highlighting the grievous wrong done to them.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Ann Phelan is next and has two minutes.

Photo of Ann PhelanAnn Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I may have four minutes, as Deputy McNamara has agreed to give me his two minutes.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Ann PhelanAnn Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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On 15 March last year, I requested in the House that consideration be given to the violations perpetrated on these heroic women who suffered extensively and unjustly following the barbaric procedures known as symphysiotomy and pubiotomy decades after these practices had been discontinued in most developed countries. I draw the attention of Deputies to the night we sat in the audiovisual, AV, room. Listening to the women's stories was harrowing. Not only was sweat breaking out on the back of the neck of the Deputy who was in front of me, but it was also breaking out on the back of mine.

Let there be no ambiguity. Doctors chose to perform this type of operation instead of caesarean sections because of a perverse and inexplicable view of sexuality and women's bodies that was presided over by the teachings of the Catholic Church, which was the norm at the time. The women believed they could trust the medical profession. Twelve months ago, I had the opportunity to meet some of the victims of this procedure. Listening to their individual cases was harrowing, to say the least. What they went through was a crime against human decency. Hearing their stories had a traumatic effect on me and I can only imagine what effect it had on the women and their families, given that some of the procedures were carried out without consent and sometimes in front of audiences. Their civil liberties were defiled, most notably those of health and freedom of choice, and they suffered the most extreme excesses of degradation.

Last night, the Minister for Health acknowledged the level of distress caused to the women who underwent the procedure and recognised the pain and trauma they endured. He is committed to dealing with the issue sensitively so that it can be brought to a conclusion for all of the women affected. He has agreed to accept the Bill and I thank him for sending a strong message to the women involved that he intends to bring closure in the fairest and fastest way possible. He also outlined that his primary concern was that all victims would have access so that their medical and health entitlements might be met. I commend him for his efforts in this regard. I acknowledge the work that the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, has been doing with the survivors for a long time. I also acknowledge the work undertaken by the Minister of State, Deputy White.

One of the reasons I entered politics was to be able to feel that an individual could make a difference. Tonight, every Deputy has made a difference. However, the women in question have made the real difference. Since entering Government, we have needed to make difficult decisions that affect many people, but we in the Chamber are above politics tonight. This is a question of human decency. When a wrong has been perpetrated, it must be righted. These women have been wronged. Tonight, we might be on our way to acknowledging in some form the injustice done to them. I thank these amazing women for bringing their story of injustice to us.

I acknowledge the efforts of Deputy Ó Caoláin, who introduced the Bill to the House, and the hard work done by him and Deputies on all sides of the House. Deputy Ó Caoláin has made a difference.

I wish the Survivors of Symphysiotomy group the best of luck in its future endeavours. I look forward to the findings and recommendations of the independent research report. I want the survivors' needs met sooner rather than later, not next year or the year after but this year, as the Minister outlined. I wish these women the best of luck.

Photo of Michelle MulherinMichelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge the presence of women affected by symphysiotomy and their families, friends and support groups. I warmly welcome the Minister's recognition of the hurt done to these women at the hands of State institutions through his symbolic acceptance of Sinn Féin's Bill. This is not a party issue. Rather, it is a question of women whose lives have been affected by the procedure in question. Having attended presentations and read material on the subject, I know that we are not only referring to the procedure itself, but to the dismal and, at times, non-existence after-care of women who were in terrible suffering and pain. This can only be described as inhumane.

Every time justice is achieved, as it will be in this case, a light shines on our nation and we are all uplifted. Whenever a citizen is diminished, all of society is diminished. I welcome the Minister's commitment to providing supports and services for the women affected.

That firm commitment is long overdue. I would welcome in particular that women would not have to go to court, which would necessitate them undergoing a difficult process. I hope that is not the sole solution presented to them.

I note that the Minister is awaiting the independent research report and its recommendations. In particular, I look forward to the meaningful engagement by the State and the Minister with the women affected to achieve the justice they seek, and above all to get an acknowledgement of all they have gone through and the dark place they were put into by virtue of the treatment they received at the hands of the State.

6:25 pm

Photo of Seán ConlanSeán Conlan (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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We, as elected legislators of this nation, again find ourselves confronted by the sins of past generations in addressing the issue of symphysiotomy, a procedure inflicted on unsuspecting and unfortunate mothers who at the very hour of their distress in giving birth to their children were abused mentally, physically, emotionally and unconstitutionally at the hands of agents of this State who to this day have at no point been confronted with the horror of their actions. They were people into whose hands the women had placed their trust and they had the responsibility to act in such a way as to protect the women's interests, to act in good faith and to uphold and protect their rights to self-determination, bodily integrity and the right to refuse medical treatment. Those medical practitioners were revered and respected at a time in our history when such reverence was misdirected towards many unworthy of such sentiments. The women were abused in every conceivable way. They were gratuitously maimed in the process of procedures conducted by pillars of Irish society on behalf of the State on extremely dubious grounds. The women involved suffered at the hands of those practitioners who rode rough-shod over their legal, moral and constitutional rights to bodily integrity and self-determination. They were kept entirely in the dark and denied the option of considering alternative procedures already widely practised at the time across the civilised world.

I acknowledge the words of the Minister last night. I also acknowledge the work done by the cross-party group on the issue, in particular by my constituency colleague, Deputy Ó Caoláin, and all Members, both Government and Opposition. I wish to see a speedy resolution to the issue. I would welcome the introduction of a speedy redress scheme so the women do not have to endure lengthy court proceedings and that the issue will be addressed this year rather than next year. If at all possible the matter should be dealt with before the summer as many of the women are at an advanced age. This is a key issue for the nation. It is time such issues were consigned to the past. While the trauma the women suffered cannot be addressed to a significant extent what we can do is apologise as a State for what happened and make sure a comprehensive redress scheme is put in place. I welcome what the Minister said last night on the issue.

Photo of Ciara ConwayCiara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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I welcome the opportunity to address the House on this most serious and sensitive issue. We would not be present if it were not for the fact that some brave women came forward and told their sensitive stories publicly. We cannot discount how difficult it was for them to reveal such personal details.

As a woman, I am aware of what it is like to go to hospital to have a baby. In such circumstances I do not want to think the treatment I receive will end up as part of an inquest or public inquiry. That would not be the case for any male Member of the House. We should remember, congratulate and support those women who took the brave step of coming forward on the issue.

In preparation for speaking on this issue tonight I reflected on how badly expectant mothers and women were treated by the medical profession, who for some bizarre and unknown reason believed that in breaking women's pelvic bones they were upholding an ethos. The practice of safe caesarean section was cast aside in the pretence of an apparent religious ethos. That is all the more alarming given that we now know this practice continued until the 1990s.

Mary Robinson once said that when culture, religion or ethos is being used to defend or justify some barbaric practice such as symphysiotomy or female genital mutilation - I am pleased to say the Dáil has made the latter practice illegal - it is very often the perpetrator of such a practice who uses religion, ethos or culture as a cover. One rarely if ever finds a woman who will excuse a practice on the basis of it being part of one’s culture, ethos or religion and allow it to continue.

I echo the sentiments that have resounded across the Chamber from all Members of the House in congratulating the brave women and their families who have come forward to tell their stories and reveal such private and personal details. The way in which this State has viewed women with disdain as second-class citizens time and time again must come to an end. We must be able to draw a line under it. It is incumbent upon all of us in this House to say that we are sorry but, more to the point, to ensure that nothing like this can happen again.

As a result of their biology, women are discriminated against time and time again by this State but it is incumbent upon all of us in this House to ensure that comes to an end. I am horrified by the practice of symphysiotomy and the stories that were revealed which have left women with life-long injuries and difficulties, but I am pleased the Minister has accepted the Bill. We must ensure that the women receive the treatment, care and compensation they so badly deserve.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the women and their families to the Gallery tonight and in so doing acknowledge their suffering, pain, the horror of what they have gone through and the tragedy that this has continued right up to the present day. All of us and the State owe them our sincere apologies and genuine and warm acknowledgement.

I congratulate my constituency colleague, Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, on his introduction of the Bill with the all-party group and the work he has done on it. I salute him for that.

I acknowledge the Minister’s acceptance of the Bill. That was a humane, sensible reaction based on a genuine compassion and understanding and a desire that the situation would not be repeated. I congratulate him and the Minister of State, Deputy White, who is present, on that wise and sensitive decision. The women, including the victims in the Gallery, have gone through enough without having in some way to defend their position further and to witness a division on the legislation. I admire the acceptance of the Bill.

The women deserve a speedy outcome, the quickest possible outcome that can be achieved for them. They should not have to go through an adversarial process nor should they be challenged other than to establish the reality of what happened. No obstacles should be put in their way. They should not have to go through difficult court proceedings. The women deserve to be compensated and to get a holistic solution in the sense that their psychological, physical and medical needs arising from what has happened must be addressed.

I look forward to the response of the Minister and the Minister of State. I had the privilege of serving with the Minister of State, Deputy White, in the Seanad and I am aware of his empathy in such situations. I urge him to assure us in his reply that the response will be quick and holistic and that there will not be an adversarial dimension for the women, that there will be an acceptance of the wrong done and an earnest effort to solve the problem for what is only 200 people, but it is too many to have even one person in this situation.

Photo of Tony McLoughlinTony McLoughlin (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I am pleased to speak on the Bill introduced by Deputy Ó Caoláin. In recent years and especially recent months, as a nation we have heard painful accounts of the hurt and physical abuse many women had to endure at the hands of institutions linked in many cases directly or indirectly to the State.

The particular stories of these women have caused young people to question what kind of society would allow this pain to be inflicted on human beings, mothers giving birth.

Symphysiotomy was a barbaric practice carried out on up to 1,500 women during childbirth which involved a surgeon deliberately breaking the woman's pelvis to make delivery easier. The result for these women was that they were left with permanent illness from chronic pain and, in many cases, were disabled for life. Victims were given no information prior to or after the surgery and there was no informed consent. The psychological, as well as physical, trauma of such a procedure must not be underestimated.

I welcome Deputy O'Caolain's sincere efforts to bring this issue to the floor of the House and commend the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, who has responded in a very positive way. Services available to victims on request include full GMS eligibility on medical grounds. The Department has also commissioned an independent research report on the practice. I further welcome the Minister's decision to accept the Bill, subject to some necessary legal changes and I am sure that the victims will also welcome this as an important step in allowing a change to the law concerning the limitation of actions, as set out primarily in the Statute of Limitations, 1957, as amended.

6:35 pm

Photo of Anne FerrisAnne Ferris (Wicklow, Labour)
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It has been said that victory has a thousand fathers but that defeat is an orphan. Today's victory is one for the mothers of Ireland, however bittersweet that may be. When I first heard of the barbaric procedure that is symphysiotomy or indeed, pubiotomy, I was appalled. I was appalled that when women were at their most vulnerable, some doctors and nurses in Irish hospitals conspired to violate them in a despicable manner. These women have fought for recognition for many years and the step we are taking tonight is only the first that is necessary to provide some measure of justice for them.

I have been to many meetings on this matter and discussed various legal and technical issues, but it has always been the personal stories that have been the most difficult to hear. I listened to one woman describe how, on an Easter Monday more than 50 years ago, she was taken for a "small operation" and left to recover for three days, without food, in a tiny darkened room. She described how she could not feel her legs, developed a clot and how since then, from the age of 29, she has suffered from chronic pain and bladder infections. I listened to another woman who underwent the procedure without anaesthesia, with no explanation or options discussed. She spoke of the irony of having to fill out a form to get internal stitches. She assumed that her baby had died and was not allowed to see him for two days. For six months thereafter she was obliged to depend on her family to look after her and her baby.

These are but two stories of young women who were seen as ideal candidates for medical experimentation, which is what symphysiotomy was. As the Survivors of Symphysiotomy group says, powerful Catholic doctors saw symphysiotomy as a gateway to childbearing without limitation, unlike caesarean section, which was seen to cap family size and to lead to family planning, of which they disapproved. Once a caesarean, always a caesarean. This was a general medical belief, with four births deemed to be the upper safety limit.

These women were denied their right to self determination and bodily integrity and their right to refuse medical treatment. Laws governing medical experimentation on human subjects were flouted. It is now time for the State to act in a way that serves the best interests of all of these women who we have previously failed. I hope for speedy progress on the matter and a resolution that meets the needs of the women. There are representatives of victims, women who have undergone symphysiotomy and others who have worked to highlight this issue in the Visitors Gallery this evening. I commend them for their courage and I regret that it has taken us so long to get where we are today. I would also like to make special mention of Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, who spearheaded the work of the all-party group and thank him for all the work he has done on this to date. I would also like to say that we are not giving up.

Photo of Mary Mitchell O'ConnorMary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I also thank Deputy Ó Caoláin for all of his work. I am pleased the Minister for Health has agreed to accept this Bill and I welcome his assurance that the Government is committed to dealing with this issue sensitively so that it can be brought to an appropriate and fair conclusion for all women affected. I also welcome the women who have suffered surgical symphysiotomy to the Visitors Gallery tonight, as well as their relatives and friends.

However, I wish to raise the issue of spontaneous symphysiotomy. I have recently been contacted by two ladies who had a spontaneous symphysiotomy during childbirth and I am aware that there is a small cohort of women suffering pain and disability similar to that suffered by the women here tonight. Spontaneous symphysiotomy occurs naturally during childbirth and these women have suffered too. Spontaneous symphysiotomies are more commonplace where a mother is giving birth to a large baby. Sometimes their occurrence is unavoidable but in other instances they are a result of a failure on the part the medical profession to predict the threat and to perform a caesarean section. Most women make a full recovery in six to ten weeks but two women contacted my office recently who were left in agony after not having their spontaneous symphysiotomy acknowledged and treated. Both women provided me with a terrifying narrative of their treatment during pregnancy. Their pain was disregarded, ignored and belittled by their doctors. They were fobbed off and told to get over it. Both ladies are on crutches and some of the time, in wheelchairs. They genuinely feel that an attempt was made to silence their request for medical notes. They have been asked to jump through hoops in order to get an account of what happened to them during childbirth. It is imperative that spontaneous symphysiotomy is properly diagnosed, acknowledged and appropriate treatment provided. It is only humane that Government would extend the entitlement to medical cards and other resources to such women.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you Deputy.

Photo of Mary Mitchell O'ConnorMary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Furthermore, if there is incompetence on the part of the medical profession or hospitals, they should also have recourse to the courts.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you Deputy.

Photo of Mary Mitchell O'ConnorMary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Ceann Comhairle to bear with me because I have brought up something new tonight.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry but there are two other speakers waiting.

Photo of Mary Mitchell O'ConnorMary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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That is fine, I will finish now by saying that both women are in their early 40s. As a result of spontaneous symphysiotomy they are on crutches and in wheelchairs and there are many others like them in the country.

Photo of Dan NevilleDan Neville (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate and welcome the survivors of symphysiotomy to the House. I also wish to remember those who are not with us, as they have passed on.

Symphysiotomy is barbaric and cruel. It is important to remind ourselves that it involved breaking the pelvis to facilitate a difficult birth. Between 1914 and 1992, approximately 1,500 operations took place, most without the consent of the mothers and without information being provided to them, their husbands or families. Their trust was betrayed by the medical system and the State and I am pleased that this has now been recognised.

I welcome the fact that the Government will deal with this with all of the sensitivity it deserves. It is important that we bring to a conclusion the difficulties that the women experienced as soon as possible, preferably within months. The women who have suffered deserve no less. They have suffered for 40 to 50 years. Grievous wrong was done to them and this must be recognised.

The survivors of symphysiotomy have been demanding justice since 2002. At that time I was a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children, which had several meetings with the survivors of symphysiotomy that can only be described as harrowing. I first became aware of this issue when I was a member of that committee and the women's campaign for recognition must be commended. I would like to single out Ms Marie O'Connor for the work she has done as Chairperson of the Survivors of Symphysiotomy group. I also wish to acknowledge the work done by Deputy Ó Caoláin to bring this issue to a head.

6:45 pm

Photo of Regina DohertyRegina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I wish to share some time with Deputy Stanton.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies are over time as it is.

Photo of Regina DohertyRegina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I will speak quickly. I welcome the ladies and their families to the Gallery. Two years ago I could not even pronounce symphysiotomy, let alone knew what it was, but hearing the explanation and stories from the ladies here tonight is one of the most horrific experiences I have had to endure. That will stay with me. They have shown courage, strength, tolerance and endurance, which is an example to me, and it has been a privilege to sit on the all-party committee to represent them month in and month out under the stewardship of Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin. I pay tribute to him as there were times when we were low but he kept our motivation high. I commend him for doing so.

We all hoped we would get to this stage, although I am not sure I ever believed we would get here. I am so pleased we are all here on the same side tonight. I am pleased for the ladies but I am more pleased that the Minister gave a commitment last night that alongside the passage of this Bill, he will meet with the women on the publication of the report by Professor Una Walsh and set up a body to communicate with the women in order to progress the issue before the end of the year. The women will have our continued support until this is finally over and they receive the justice and acknowledgement of the barbaric acts carried out. They have the support not only of the all-party committee but of this entire House. I wish them well.

Photo of David StantonDavid Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Last year I was happy to be able to facilitate a group coming before the justice committee because lifting the statute is a justice matter. At the time the committee gave support on all sides to the issue in writing to the Government and I am delighted we are united as a House on the matter. I look forward to the Bill coming before the committee and we will give it fair speed at the time.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I wish to share time with Deputies Luke 'Ming' Flanagan, Healy-Rae, Nulty, Joan Collins, Pringle and Catherine Murphy.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I welcome the Government's decision not to oppose the Bill and the survivors of symphysiotomy have given a guarded welcome to the announcement, calling for this Bill's speedy enactment and commencement. They are wary of the Government's indication that it may await the publication of the final Walsh report. At yesterday's briefing the group was at pains to stress that the Walsh report was a whitewash, and this was vindicated by last year's Supreme Court decision that symphysiotomy was not a generally approved practice, in contradiction to the Walsh report assertion that nearly all symphysiotomies were medically acceptable.

I will use my time to tell part of a story of a woman from Wexford called Maura, who says she knew me when I was a child in the pram. Maura went to Holles Street in 1961 to have her second child, having had her first child at Airmount in Waterford, where she had a caesarean section. The birth of her second child, Wendy, was difficult but there was no caesarean section that time. Her memories of the episode are vague but she remembers people shouting that she should not push. She also remembers students around the bed, along with two nurses, and a hand saw. Nobody told her what was going on or asked for her opinion or consent. She states that one did not query the doctors at the time.

She received no after-care but she could not sit or walk for weeks afterwards. Later, she had to learn to walk again and even today she must sit on the side of a seat and cannot sit on a bench. Back pain became a feature of her life. Maura had two boys afterwards but did not dare go back for a six-week check-up. Later in life she had was to go for a cervical cancer check-up but was afraid to do so. Maura is just very glad that people like Marie O'Connor were around to help her seek some form of justice.

Photo of Luke FlanaganLuke Flanagan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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I welcome this Bill and the news that the Government will support it. I also congratulate Deputy Ó Caoláin for ploughing a long furrow, along with other people on the committee, in bringing the Bill to this stage. On many days I come here and wonder why the hell I bother but yesterday in the audiovisual room I listened to the ladies telling their stories and I felt that there are times when we have good reasons to be here. This evening will be one of those times if we follow through on the issue.

I hope this will help bring an end to a culture in Ireland that saw women for many decades as nothing more than meat and playthings for men. They were seen as basically child-bearing machines and treated as such. The day before my mother died she told me what was said to her when she was giving birth to me. Her comments shocked me but on hearing the stories tonight, they should have been no surprise. My mother was screaming in pain and she was told: "Shut up. You have had your effing fun and now is the time to feel the pain." That is the sort of attitude to women that led to the type of issue being discussed tonight, and I hope it is now buried in our past so it can never be repeated.

The act of symphysiotomy shows the limitless nature of the perversions of which this State was capable. We lived in such a twisted country that we even convinced the majority of the women that they were somehow less than men. The women here tonight should get their justice, and if they do, it will act as a kind of beacon to remind us of what went on the past. We must never let it happen again.

Deputy Joan Collins was accused earlier of cynicism and scepticism. People often mix up cynicism and scepticism, and the Deputy was being sceptical. Scepticism is healthy. Deputy Wallace spoke about a woman he knows who stated that one does not query doctors, which shows how important is scepticism. If people had stood up to question the practice of symphysiotomy at the time, it would not have been carried out. My worry is that the matter will not be followed through quickly enough. We must follow it through. One could see how head shops were dealt with overnight, and if we were really serious about the issue, we would deal with it as quickly as possible. I hope my scepticism is proved wrong but what is behind the idea of waiting for an extended version of a report that did not take in the accounts of the people involved? How can we have faith in that? The process must be quick. A lady at the gate affected by the issue summed it up perfectly when she said that justice delayed is justice denied. There should be no more delay.

6:55 pm

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I thank Sinn Féin and the Technical Group for allowing me some of their speaking time. I particularly want to acknowledge the work done by Deputy Ó Caoláin over a long period of time. I thank him for his diligence and for the thorough and workmanlike way he carried on his business.

I recognise and acknowledge each and every person who is here tonight and who was here last night and acknowledge the horrible suffering they were put through. The Ceann Comhairle very kindly explained to us that we are not to name people under any circumstances but I have permission from a very special lady, Mrs. Nora Mai Kissane, of Kissane's shop in Carnahone, Beaufort, Killarney, County Kerry. This woman is a special friend of mine and she was affected in this way when she was having a child. She bore this trouble for the rest of her life. She raised a fine, respectable family, and worked hard every day. Many of those in the locality and many of those here tonight know what I mean. Her neighbours, however, did not realise the difficulties she faced. She endured those difficulties. I was so proud when she came out when this debate started. She appeared on the front pages of the local newspapers and told her story on Radio Kerry. That created an awareness of what was happening and how it affected ladies, and the awful consequences for them.

I appreciate the Government and the Minister supporting this legislation but I will not go down on my hands and knees to say they are great, because all they are doing is what is right. Let us be clear about that. I will not bring politics into this but when I hear people praising the Government, saying it is so good of it to acknowledge and support this, all it is doing is what is right. It is what it should be doing and if it did anything else, it would be blown out of it.

This was an awful thing and at the back of it, it might have been put down to the church. I stand here tonight supporting the ladies but I am also saying that I believe in God, the church and the Catholic religion for all its faults. That is me and I make no apology for that.

I want to specifically mention Marie O'Connor, who did so much good work over a long period of time, and all of the others, each and every one of them, who put so much time and effort into this. Thanks be to God we are going in the right direction and these people will get redress.

Photo of Patrick NultyPatrick Nulty (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am glad to be able to contribute to this debate. I thank Deputy Ó Caoláin for the courage and tenacity he has shown in pursuing this issue, and the Minister of State, Deputy White, for accepting the Bill. The fact the House can come together on an issue like this is a shining example of the work that can be done here. I wish legislation was judged on its merits more often instead of through the partisan prism of party politics.

I acknowledge the presence of the ladies who were victims of symphysiotomy and their families. They endured terrible hardship that demonstrates sadly that the political, economic and medical establishment since the foundation of the State has been inherently misogynist in nature. We should reflect on that and be aware that even today, as we face the challenges of ensuring we have a health service that is fit for purpose, it is still women who bear the brunt of the decisions we make and who are bearing the brunt of the situation the country is in at present.

I am often asked what leaders inspire me. I do not believe political leaders or personalities are what leadership is about. In philosophy there is an idea that a leader is at his best when people barely know he exists, that when his work is done and his aims are fulfilled, people say they did it themselves. Marie O'Connor and the other women who are victims of symphysiotomy are leaders. As a young legislator, those are the people I see as leaders. They demonstrate that whatever the hardship, no matter how difficult it is, and no matter how dark the day, if a person is determined and clear about his or her rights and dignity as a person and as citizen, who matters as much as anyone else, he or she can show the power citizens have as leaders. The victims of symphysiotomy are to be applauded because they are a shining example of what can happen when citizens band together for a common cause and grasp their rights. If more of that happened today, we would be in a better place.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I welcome the Bill and thank Sinn Féin and Deputy Ó Caoláin for bringing this Bill into the Dáil. I welcome the survivors and salute those who are here and those who could not make it tonight.

I listened to the debate last night and a number of speakers asked how or why the breaking or rendering asunder of a woman's pelvic bone could happen. That has been addressed today because we have heard how there was and still is a prevailing culture of religious motivation. Women in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s could not control their bodies and could not have access to family planning. The idea that some doctors felt they could carry out this barbaric process so they would not have to recommend family planning or sterilisation if a woman had more than four caesarean sections was absolutely disgusting. Some doctors used this process for clinical training and for experimental purposes. It beggars believe that attitude could prevail in the medical profession but it is still there, as we saw with the recent death of Savita Halappanavar. As a result of this ethos surrounding abortion, a point was reached where Savita's life was weighed up against the life of the unviable foetus inside her.

Deputy Ó Caoláin referred to Rita McCann, whose story demonstrated the thinking of the time. She was asked to sign a form a number of days after her pelvic bones were broken so she could receive internal stitches. It was okay to mutilate her body but she had to be given a form to sign for internal stitches.

I was shaking my head when Deputy Buttimer was speaking because there was a guarded welcome from the Government for the Survivors of Symphysiotomy group. There was a lack of enthusiasm from the Minister for Health last night. He said he would accept the Bill but then said there were serious flaws in it. What are they? He said the Bill might not achieve the desired objectives. Why not? He said that before the Bill goes any further, we should wait for the final Walsh report. Why? That report has been exposed as totally irrelevant, particularly following the recent Supreme Court case, where the judges said symphysiotomy was unjustified and unjustifiable, that it was not a medical procedure that could be stood over.

This Bill is three short paragraphs; it is carefully drafted legislation modelled on the 2000 Act that lifted the statute bar for survivors of abuse in residential institutions. It could be passed very quickly. We do not want these women to have to wait for another year, not Ellen O'Brien, who is 90 years of age, or those other women in their 70s and 80s. The Bill should be sent on to Committee Stage and returned to the Dáil within a month.

Photo of Thomas PringleThomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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I pay tribute to Deputy Ó Caoláin and the cross-party group that worked so hard to bring this Bill to fruition.

I also pay tribute to the survivors of symphysiotomy and their dedication, commitment and hard work over many years to get to this stage of the process.

This Bill will give the survivors one year to lodge a legal action against this barbarous procedure that was forced upon them. I welcome the news that the Government will accept this all-party Bill allowing survivors to take civil cases against the hospitals that assaulted them. However, I have concerns regarding the Government's indication that further processing of the Bill should await the publication of the final Walsh report.

No one can dispute the horror that more than 1,500 women, some as young as 15, endured during and after these so-called medical procedures which were practised in this country between 1942 and 2005. These operations were illegal and doctors ignored their legal obligations to seek patient consent to medical treatment which resulted in this untold misery and pain.

These women were denied their right to self-determination and bodily integrity, as well as their right to refuse medical treatment. Laws governing medical experimentation on human subjects were flouted. This cruel and torturous procedure was an extreme violation of their rights as human beings.

These operations were clearly negligent. Why wait for the final Walsh report to progress this Bill when we know that the draft report, which did not speak to survivors and did not examine their medical notes or analyse the published case histories of symphysiotomy, found that 97% of these operations were medically acceptable? This was overturned last year in Kearney v. McQuillan, where the Supreme Court ruled that symphysiotomy was not a generally approved practice. That is a judgment which applies across the board and clearly shows that there is no need to wait for the final Walsh report.

I also question the suggestion by the Minister that there are flaws in the Bill. This Bill was modelled on similar legislation in 2000 which raised the Statute of Limitations for survivors of abuse in residential institutions. Where are these flaws?

Symphysiotomy ruined lives, let there be no doubt about that, leading to long-term health problems such as walking difficulties, incontinence, bowel and bladder injuries, organ prolapse, chronic pain and mental health issues, as well as placing significant strains on relationships. These operations were performed on the State's watch, and it is the State's duty to address what these victims need as soon as possible. They have waited long enough and time is not on their side.

This Bill would allow these mothers to take civil cases against the hospitals that harmed them. That is another process and another journey in itself and it will take a long time for each individual case to be brought before the courts. They need and deserve the all-clear from this House to go ahead and take these cases and begin the next journey. They need action from us now.

Around 1,300 survivors have already gone to their graves without ever seeing justice, with approximately 200 survivors alive today, many of whom are in their 70s and 80s. Let us not delay their fight for justice any longer. The Government has shown it can process legislation quickly and it should ensure the Minister acts now to make this happen.

7:05 pm

Photo of Tom FlemingTom Fleming (Kerry South, Independent)
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Symphysiotomy was a barbaric and unnecessary medical procedure in the 20th century in a supposedly civilised society. Ireland was the only country in the developed world in which these high-risk procedures were carried out in the past century. Approximately 1,500 procedures were done in this country. Fewer than 200 of those who underwent them survive today. Down through the years, they endured exceptional pain and in many cases, disablement and discomfort.

The temporary lifting of the Statute of Limitations will ensure victims access to the courts. If the statute is not lifted now, it will deprive many of justice, not to speak of the hundreds of deceased victims who were never acknowledged nor received any form of compensation, and in many cases never received proper medical assistance from the State that would have made their lives somewhat easier.

It seems beyond belief that these women were used as guinea pigs in Irish hospitals by professional practitioners with a view to perfecting the procedure and exporting it to Africa and India. The operation was also for teaching and training purposes. It is criminal, to put it mildly, how this was allowed by the masters of the maternity hospitals.

This brutal act was carried out without the mothers' knowledge or consent, and in many cases it was only much later in life that these women became aware, having led devastating lives in the meantime and with a legacy of health problems. The vast majority of the victims were young women, in many cases having their first child, whose knowledge of childbirth was extremely limited. Many did not realise at the time of the operation or any time soon afterwards of any wrongdoing. In the majority of cases the facts were concealed from these women for decades by sections of the medical profession. In a significant number of cases, the medical records have been destroyed, lost or otherwise made unavailable.

The 1957 Act provides for the extension of the two year limitation period in cases of persons under a disability and the careful design of the Bill ensures it is fully in line with the Constitution and does not infringe on the prerogatives of the Judiciary. The Kearney v. McQuillan Supreme Court decision delivered in July 2012 reaffirmed the decision of Mr. Justice Sean Ryan in the High Court. The Kearney case is the first time an institution of the State has declared that symphysiotomy is not an acceptable operation in Ireland in the prevailing circumstances. Mr. Justice MacMenamin, on behalf of the five judges on the Supreme Court, declared that evidence provided that it was not a genuinely approved practice and the performance of this surgery was deeply and fundamentally flawed in a way which should have been obvious to any doctor of similar skill or specialisation.

The Bill is long overdue. It is time to expedite the Statute of Limitations (Amendment) Bill and not to procrastinate any longer. In any other civilised country this matter would have been addressed long before now. I thank Deputy Ó Caoláin and the Sinn Féin Party for putting forward the Bill and for the Deputy's efforts with the committee in expediting this.

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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In the first instance, I welcome the women and their families who are in the Gallery with us tonight. I hope it is the last time they find they need to be in this House for this purpose. I thank Deputy Ó Caoláin for his persistence, and Sinn Féin for its generosity in giving of its time tonight to the Technical Group.

I welcome the decision of the Government to accept this legislation but its generosity will be judged by the speed at which a Bill is finally enacted, and the substance of that Bill. I hope there will not be any delay and that what we will get is exactly what the women expected - a means of redress.

It is now widely accepted that the practice of symphysiotomy was never necessary. As has been referred to, the Supreme Court decision affirmed that. It was an incredible practice imposed on women as a procedure which, primarily, was about facilitating a Catholic social policy of large families.

Last year when we debated the matter, I spoke of my 90 year old mother, who is still with us, who in 1952 was subject to this barbaric practice in Holles Street. It was to ensure they had larger families. She had her first child in 1952. She did not question the practice and did not really have a word to describe what it was. By 1956, there were five of us, and there were more to follow. It certainly delivered the large families. Often these large families were difficult to rear and women put themselves on the back burner, so to speak.

The important point is that we have a solution. There are missing medical records. Some of these records will go back to the 1940s and 1950s. It will be important that we get a description of how women will deal with the burden of proof if they end up in court in such an environment where those records do not exist. The records might not exist but the results of the process certainly exist with those who have survived this practice, often with considerable difficulty for decades. I hope there will be generosity shown in cases where there is a difficulty because the records have not survived.

7:15 pm

Photo of Alex WhiteAlex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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I welcome the opportunity to address the House to summarise the main points on this important issue from the Government's perspective. First, and most importantly, the Government has given its support to the passage of Deputy Ó Caoláin's Bill. This support gives a strong message to the women involved that we wish and intend to bring closure to this dreadful chapter in the history of our health services, and will not block any feasible route to resolution. More importantly, we wish to bring closure and resolution for the women and their families.

The Minister said last night that he has been advised that there are flaws in the proposed legislation, and it may be open to constitutional and other legal challenges. However, I assure the House that we will work with the Department of Justice and Equality, and the Office of the Attorney General to address these challenges. Those legal and constitutional issues and the means by which they need to be resolved can be addressed on Committee Stage. I again emphasise that the Government does not oppose and is supporting the passage of the Bill on Second Stage. Committee Stage is the appropriate environment and context to tease out those issues. Deputy Pringle and others asked what the perceived flaws are. I do not have time to address those this evening in my closing speech other than to assure the House that they will be addressed and can be teased out and debated on Committee Stage.

As the Minister expressed unambiguously last night, there is a clear commitment on the part of Government to address this situation. Indeed, all parties in the House have acknowledged that symphysiotomy has been the cause of great distress and pain for those women who underwent the procedure, many of whom without their consent, for years after it had ceased being practised in other jurisdictions.

The first priority of the health system is to continue to ensure that the greatest possible supports and appropriate health services are available to women who have health problems as a result of having undergone this procedure. This is happening through the HSE and the Minister outlined the range of services provided, which are co-ordinated through a national lead officer for symphysiotomy and regional liaison officers. In circumstances where there is any doubt about this or any concern about access to those services, liaison officers are available to be contacted and to assist in addressing any such issues.

It is important to reassure women in general that Ireland has one of the lowest maternal mortality rates and perinatal mortality rates in the world. It is also important to emphasise that we are recognised internationally as leaders in the field of obstetrics. However, there is no room for complacency and there are continuing important developments based on the new multidisciplinary clinical programmes being put in place by the HSE and the Department. These clinical programmes are patient focused, generally include patient representatives - as is correct and proper - and are led by senior clinicians. In addition, the Minister referred to the new patient safety initiative, the national early warning score for Ireland. The early warning scores for obstetric patients have different points for escalation of care. The maternity early warning scores were issued to maternity units in early April and are in the process of being implemented.

There is also the national group established by the HSE to oversee the implementation of the recommendations arising from the investigation team's draft report into the death of Ms Savita Halappanavar. These initiatives demonstrate the commitment of the Minister to ensure that the best possible care is available to patients, particularly maternity patients.

Prior to the publication of this Bill the Minister was already endeavouring to bring the issue of symphysiotomy to a satisfactory and fair conclusion. The report on the first stage of independent research, commissioned by the Department's chief medical officer into the practice of symphysiotomy in Ireland in 2011, was made widely available by the researcher for consultation during mid-2012. This consultation involved patient groups, health professionals and in particular the women themselves. There may have been some suggestion, perhaps unwitting, given in the course of the debate that this was not so. The consultation involved patient groups, health professionals and, in particular, the women themselves. The report will provide crucial information and insights arising from the researcher's conversations with women who have been affected and those involved in their care.

The second stage of the research report has been completed by the researcher in recent weeks and, in line with best practice, has been sent for peer review. It is expected that this process will be completed next month and the final report will then be submitted to the Minister. There can be no reasonable concern that the Walsh report would in any way delay the passage of this Bill. It will be available to the Minister next month and will help him to formulate proposals to Government on the best way forward to deal with the matter.

Even though Government is not persuaded that the particular course proposed by Deputy Ó Caoláin of lifting the bar on the Statute of Limitations will resolve the problems facing the women who wish to bring their cases to the courts, in order to demonstrate commitment and respect for the women and to move towards closure on the matter, the Government is supporting Deputy Ó Caoláin's Bill. I congratulate him, his colleagues and all involved in the all-party group in respect of this. There will be legal and constitutional issues, which will require broader consideration and the Bill as it stands may not meet the stated objectives for the women concerned. However, I emphasise that the most important goal now is that this situation is brought to an appropriate and fair conclusion for all the women involved.

I also salute and congratulate the women who have brought their campaign to the people and ultimately to the Oireachtas. They have succeeded in doing that and have also another unique achievement in uniting every Member of the House, which is very rare. They have been tenacious, dignified and resolute. For our part we must now respond and respond we will as quickly as possible.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome all the women, their family members and their advocates who are in the Visitors Gallery. I also commend my colleague and friend, Deputy Ó Caoláin, on introducing this Private Members' Bill. I was also about to welcome the fact that the Government is supporting the Bill and then I heard what the Minister of State had to say, which rang an alarm bell with me. Whatever about the detail of the Bill and the flaws that the Government perceives in it, let us speak with one voice in this House in saying this evening that the victims of symphysiotomy have been wronged on the watch of the State and that they will have their justice. Let us say that very clearly and let us not leave this debate with any shadow of doubt over the intention of Government.

It is important to acknowledge that many women, who experienced this harrowing procedure, are no longer with us. My thoughts are with them. Deputy Ó Caoláin's Bill simply asks that the Statute of Limitations be lifted for a period of a year to allow these women to pursue justice through the courts. This is a method that has been used for other victims of State neglect and violence on the State's watch. These women should not be treated any differently. I wish that the justice they so richly deserve had been delivered a very long time ago. I commend them on their tenacity, courage and strength. I also note that it took that courage, tenacity and strength to get us to this point, which says something pretty fundamental about us as a society and as legislators.

As a mother, I cannot comprehend how any medical practitioner in any decade could damage a woman's body in such a brutal manner. The birth of a child is such a precious experience, but for that experience to be violated by restraining a woman, as her pelvis is severed with a surgical saw is incomprehensible to me. Yet this happened. Pelvises were broken; sometimes the women were conscious and sometimes they were not. This was done to 1,500 women without their consent over a 50 year period. As we know, many women having had this so-called procedure were discharged from the hospitals not even aware of what had happened to them. Yet they lived with the resultant disability, illness and trauma for their entire lives.

Last year a Supreme Court judgment found in favour of Ms Olivia Kearney, a symphysiotomy survivor. As we know, Olivia had given birth to her only son by caesarean section when she was just 18. Mr. Justice John MacMenamin described it as unfathomable by today's standards.

He went on to state it was unfathomable, even by the standards of 1969, which as it happens is the year I was born. Olivia did not know she had had the procedure and she lived for 33 years in chronic pain and with no answers. To all legislators gathered here, I state that the fight for gender equality today is informed by past injustices such as these, perpetrated against women by a conservative and misogynistic State which believed women's sole purpose was limited to the home and to the bearing and rearing of children, a State which relegated us to being second-class citizens. We are not second-class citizens. We are equal citizens. The victims of symphysiotomy must be given their justice. Delay is not an option and should not happen. To argue the toss on legal technicalities would be a deeply cynical move. It is incumbent on every Member of the Dáil and Seanad to ensure this legislation is enacted as a matter of urgency so all of these brave women and their families receive the justice for which they have fought so hard. Anything less would raise the most fundamental questions about us as a democratic assembly and legislators and about the Government.

7:25 pm

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas le gach Teachta a ghlac páirt sa díospóireacht seo aréir agus anocht. Céim eile chun tosaigh atá ann, céim eile i dtreo cothrom na Féinne do na mná a d'fhulaing inár n-ospidéal. I sincerely thank all Deputies who participated in the debate yesterday and today. In nearly 16 years in the House I have never seen such a large attendance of visitors for a debate, and the vast majority of these visitors are women who survived the horrific symphysiotomy operation. I welcome all who have joined us in the Gallery. I understand that yet again there is a significant spillover into the audio-visual room. These are brave, determined and dignified women and we all salute them.

The Dáil will not divide on the Bill and this is an important step forward. As I stated at the outset of the debate, more than once in the past the survivors of symphysiotomy have left Leinster House disappointed and disillusioned. At least this will not be the case tonight. I welcome the decision of the Government and the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, to agree to accept the Bill. In announcing this acceptance in his speech yesterday, the Minister stated he wished to give a strong message to the women involved that he intends to help them get closure in this matter in the fairest way possible. This too is welcome.

In the course of his contribution, the Minister, Deputy Reilly, stated it is difficult to understand why the practice of symphysiotomy persisted when caesarean section was so safe in the latter half of the 20th century, and that as a doctor he deeply regretted this. It is indeed difficult to understand, but we need to try to understand. We are dealing with an era when doctors were always right and were never questioned, as pointed out by one of the speakers at yesterday’s Oireachtas Members’ briefing. There was a mindset among an important cohort of doctors in our maternity hospitals that their interpretation of Roman Catholic doctrine was correct and that the bodies of women must be subservient to this doctrine. These clinicians were bolstered in this mindset by the unaccountable authority with which their profession was endowed at the time. This type of authority has only been successfully challenged in very recent times, as the Michael Neary scandal and others have demonstrated.

It is important for the Minister, and for everyone, to understand this context to appreciate the enormity of what happened to these women, why it happened and why the State’s response needs to be wholehearted in ensuring justice and truth. I know only too well how essential this wholeheartedness will be, and I must note with regret that the Minister’s speech, while welcome for accepting the Bill, also indicated that in addressing the next required steps, the Government will be less than wholehearted. The Minister of State, Deputy White, also injected this note at the close of his contribution. I appeal to the Minister, Deputy Reilly, and the Minister of State, Deputy White, to prove my concerns are ill-founded. The Minister, Deputy Reilly, stated the Government is committed to dealing sensitively with the issue so it can be brought to "an appropriate and fair conclusion". The question which comes to my mind is who decides what is appropriate and what is fair, and fair for whom?

The Minister claimed there are serious flaws in the Bill. What serious flaws? Neither he nor the Minister of State identified them. He should spell them out. It is already extensively known that some of the finest legal minds in this State checked over the Bill’s construction. It is carefully based on the precedent in the child sex abuse amendment of this same statute. It is not that the Bill is flawed; it could be there is an absence of political will to accommodate the wishes of the greater number of the survivors. That said, if the legislation does have any flaws or weaknesses, I am open to have them being pointed out to me, and we let us address them on Committee Stage.

The Minister referred to services put in place for the women by the HSE. This list includes very little to which the vast majority of the women are not already entitled. They are almost all in their 70s and 80s. Ellen O’Brien, who was here yesterday and may be back with us today, is 91. They are entitled to their medical cards anyway. This is not a special entitlement for most of the survivors. The Minister’s claim the HSE is proactive in assisting the women is not borne out by many of the women’s account of their experiences, including in recent years, and we have heard this time after time.

In addressing the core of the Bill, the Minister stated it raises significant policy and legal issues which have wide-ranging implications, but again these were not spelt out. Where were these so-called significant policy and legal issues when a clear precedent was established in 2000? The Minister was quite right to say the State has a duty to ensure due process, the fair administration of justice and a fair balance between the rights of plaintiffs and defendants. However, where is the fair balance when the plaintiffs, through no fault of their own, are entirely excluded from seeking legal redress in the courts? We say allow these women access to the courts and let the courts decide, based on the evidence presented.

When I heard the following phrase in the Minister’s speech I saw a dense fog descending: "legal advice indicates that lifting the statute bar raises very complex issues that require broader consideration on a cross-departmental basis." To my mind, this is a formula for delay and obfuscation if ever I heard one. It is a Sir Humphrey formula of words for doing as little as possible. I again call on the Minister to prove me wrong, for if it is the case it is not acceptable. The Minister spoke of the aim of the obstetrics and gynaecology programme being to improve health care choice for women. This is laudable, but it is general. The specific purpose of the Bill is to provide resolution choices for the women survivors of symphysiotomy.

The Minister stated the Government is not persuaded that lifting the bar on the Statute of Limitations will resolve the problems facing the women who wish to bring their cases before the courts. Eminent legal advice says otherwise, including some of the finest legal minds and the most eminent senior counsel in the land. Why not let the courts decide? Regrettably, this statement from the Minister demonstrates a refusal to commit - it is this commitment we now need - to facilitate the passage of the Bill through its further Stages. We will get through Second Stage this evening and we need a commitment to move forward, which will require acceptance of the Bill, amended or otherwise.

I must emphasise that no one is encouraging these women to bring actions that may have little success, as the Minister suggested. There is no one leading them by the nose. This route is their clearly stated wish. There are steps that can be taken, by agreement, that would limit legal costs. All it takes is to talk this through with the women’s representatives and legal advisers. Will the Minister and his advisers undertake to do this?

We must remember, most importantly, that it is the failure of governments, not just historically, but in recent years and up to the present, to ensure justice and truth for these women that makes the legal route the preferred option for most of them. It is not long since the Minister himself, in this Chamber, contested the description of symphysiotomy as a barbaric practice. Now, however, that is an absolutely undeniable fact, which even the courts of the land have affirmed.

Having passed Second Stage, this Bill, under Dáil Standing Order 112, is automatically referred to the appropriate select committee. It must not be shelved. We will be pressing for the committee to schedule Committee Stage at the earliest opportunity. I appeal to all Deputies to hold fast to their commitment to the survivors of symphysiotomy, as demonstrated over many years on both sides of this House. They should pledge to facilitate the earliest address of this Bill on Committee, Report and Final Stages.

I again thank all Deputies who participated in this debate, without exception. I also thank Ms Marie O'Connor and say well done to all involved with the survivors of symphysiotomy. I pay tribute to all the survivors and I look forward to them completing their journey towards truth and justice. As legislators, we all have a positive role to play in assisting them to complete that long and difficult trek. Let none of us fail them now.

Question put and agreed to.