Dáil debates
Wednesday, 17 April 2013
Order of Business
11:00 am
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. a12, motion re presentation and circulation of Revised Estimates 2013; No. 24, National Lottery Bill 2012 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 1, Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland) (Amendment) Bill 2012 Seanad - Second Stage (resumed); and No. 25, Credit Reporting Bill 2012 - Second Stage (resumed). It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. a12 shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a12 agreed to?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not agreed. First, this is an extraordinary proposition that only arrived late yesterday evening, without any discussion with the Whips and without agreement. We received a briefing note about this last evening. It states that the 2013 Revised Estimates for the public service contain a fuller, more detailed breakdown of spending by each Department and Vote than the spending totals announced in the Estimates for 2013 published in the expenditure report on 5 December 2012. The note goes on to say that the Revised Estimates largely follow the budget day allocations, which were quite regressive, with the pay deal recommendations by the Labour Relations Commission having been programmed into departmental Estimates. The note continues that they also allow for a number of technical adjustments and so forth.
What we are being asked to do this morning, despite the Taoiseach admitting just a few minutes ago that he planned to reflect and do no more than that, is to approve these Estimates and send them to the committee without anybody having an idea of how the savings will be realised.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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No, the Deputy is wrong. Read the note.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In addition-----
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is wrong.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister of State stop interrupting?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach will reply.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If the Minister of State had bothered to talk to people about it in advance, we might be in a far better position this morning. However, he rams everything through and talks to nobody. There has not been a Whips meeting since before Easter and there was no discussion with the Whips. The last paragraph of the note says, "As discussed last week, we are seeking the agreement of the Whips to place the above motion." No such agreement was sought.
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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That is wrong.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No such agreement was sought by anybody.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, you are entitled to make a short contribution.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Given the gravity of the situation, I have been quite brief already.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is only about the taking of a motion. We are not dealing with the issue.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are being asked to vote. The note states there is to be no debate or discussion. Given what has happened in recent days, at the very least we should have a debate on this motion and on the Revised Estimates for the public service. A full discussion in the House in plenary session is called for and warranted.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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This matter should be given time for discussion and reflection, not least due to the turn of events and the decision by public sector workers to vote against Croke Park II. This is simply another sleight of hand on the part of the Taoiseach to slide something through on the nod, which appears to be the Taoiseach's and the Government's form.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yesterday, the Taoiseach received a stinging rebuke from the trade unionists of this country to his pay proposals. Lo and behold, today the Taoiseach seeks to ram through the Dáil what appears to be a pre-emptive strike to cast in stone, before any negotiations or reflections, his agenda for imposing pay cuts on public sector workers. Any Revised Estimates that have a bearing on the discussions that may take place regarding public sector pay should be fully debated and scrutinised in this House. This appears to be a sleight of hand and pre-emptive strike to get us to rubber stamp something that should be fully debated and, most importantly, negotiated with the public sector workers of this country. I absolutely oppose the attempt to push this through.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should calm down. It is incorrect to say that the Dáil is being asked to give approval to the Revised Estimates. What is being sought is approval to send the Revised Estimates to the relevant committees-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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With Croke Park II in them.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----for full discussion and to be returned to the House by the end of June, when there will be a plenary discussion on them. This has always been the practice with Revised Estimates. The reason for the short notice is that the Cabinet only approved them yesterday. The Whips were informed at 5 p.m. yesterday.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They were not informed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The last paragraph the Deputy referred to was a discussion between the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There was an e-mail at 5.23 p.m. There was no discussion.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy asks everybody else to be quiet, but he continues to interrupt.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am just seeking straightforward answers. The Taoiseach should have some respect for the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will now put the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, that is not what is happening here. We are being asked to refer to committees Revised Estimates that include Croke Park II, which has been rejected and is acknowledged by the Taoiseach to have been rejected.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is a technical motion.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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How can a parliament deal with Estimates that clearly are not accurate or honest due to what has happened? The Taoiseach could deal little more straightly with the Opposition. The Chief Whip did not contact the Whips and there was no discussion.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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There was an e-mail.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sending an e-mail at 5.30 p.m. yesterday is not a discussion. It is reflective of the dismissive manner in which the Government treats this House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am putting the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is absolutely disgraceful. It is the same with many other institutions of the State as well, as we have witnessed in recent times.
11:10 am
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government does not care about any democracy in the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy please resume his seat?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Given the opportunity, the Government will ram and railroad through what it likes, as it has been doing over the past 12 months. Treat the Parliament with some respect, for God's sake.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Utter rubbish. That is a disgraceful remark.
Tá
- James Bannon
- Tom Barry
- Pat Breen
- Tommy Broughan
- Richard Bruton
- Ray Butler
- Jerry Buttimer
- Catherine Byrne
- Eric Byrne
- Joe Carey
- Paudie Coffey
- Áine Collins
- Paul Connaughton
- Ciara Conway
- Noel Coonan
- Marcella Corcoran Kennedy
- Joe Costello
- Michael Creed
- Jim Daly
- John Deasy
- Jimmy Deenihan
- Pat Deering
- Regina Doherty
- Robert Dowds
- Andrew Doyle
- Bernard Durkan
- Damien English
- Anne Ferris
- Frances Fitzgerald
- Peter Fitzpatrick
- Charles Flanagan
- Terence Flanagan
- Eamon Gilmore
- Brendan Griffin
- Dominic Hannigan
- Noel Harrington
- Simon Harris
- Tom Hayes
- Martin Heydon
- Brendan Howlin
- Heather Humphreys
- Kevin Humphreys
- Derek Keating
- Paul Kehoe
- Enda Kenny
- Seán Kenny
- Seán Kyne
- Anthony Lawlor
- Ciarán Lynch
- John Lyons
- Eamonn Maloney
- Peter Mathews
- Helen McEntee
- Nicky McFadden
- Dinny McGinley
- Joe McHugh
- Tony McLoughlin
- Michael McNamara
- Olivia Mitchell
- Michelle Mulherin
- Dara Murphy
- Eoghan Murphy
- Gerald Nash
- Denis Naughten
- Dan Neville
- Derek Nolan
- Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
- Kieran O'Donnell
- Patrick O'Donovan
- John O'Mahony
- Joe O'Reilly
- Jan O'Sullivan
- Willie Penrose
- John Perry
- Ann Phelan
- John Paul Phelan
- Pat Rabbitte
- James Reilly
- Brendan Ryan
- Seán Sherlock
- Arthur Spring
- Emmet Stagg
- David Stanton
- Billy Timmins
- Joanna Tuffy
- Liam Twomey
- Jack Wall
- Alex White
Níl
- Richard Boyd Barrett
- Dara Calleary
- Joan Collins
- Michael Colreavy
- Seán Crowe
- Clare Daly
- Timmy Dooley
- Dessie Ellis
- Martin Ferris
- Luke Flanagan
- Seán Fleming
- Tom Fleming
- John Halligan
- Séamus Healy
- Michael Healy-Rae
- Joe Higgins
- Billy Kelleher
- Michael Kitt
- Pádraig MacLochlainn
- Micheál Martin
- Charlie McConalogue
- Mary Lou McDonald
- Finian McGrath
- Mattie McGrath
- Michael McGrath
- Sandra McLellan
- Catherine Murphy
- Éamon Ó Cuív
- Seán Ó Fearghaíl
- Aengus Ó Snodaigh
- Jonathan O'Brien
- Willie O'Dea
- Thomas Pringle
- Shane Ross
- Brian Stanley
- Peadar Tóibín
- Robert Troy
- Mick Wallace
11:15 am
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Revised Estimates sent to the committees include provision for €300 million in savings envisaged under the Labour Relations Commission or Croke Park II agreement. Three specific items of legislation have been promised in the House by the Minister for Public Expenditure and the Taoiseach. Reference was made to the Payment of Wages Act, the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act, which was mentioned in respect of the savings that must be made, and legislation on pensions. Will the Government proceed with this legislation? Where stands the commitment to introduce it?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The legislation to which Deputy Martin refers and on which the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, commented, was three Bills that would have been brought forward if the agreement had been accepted by the trade unions. That is no longer the case following the decision made by the trade unions. As I stated during Leaders' Questions, the Government must now consider the outcome of the ballot and what decisions it must make to achieve the €300 million of additional savings this year.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is off the agenda for the time being.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It would have been brought forward if the agreement had been accepted. The Government must now consider the options.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is significant.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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To clarify, is it correct that the legislation will not be forthcoming, as had been indicated? Legislation has not been drafted.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The three items of legislation on which the Minister and I commented would have been brought forward if the deal had been accepted. The deal was rejected by the unions and we are in a new position. The Government will have to consider what it must do to achieve the savings set out in the fiscal programme.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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In that case, I assume there will not be legislation.
When does the Taoiseach expect Mr. Justice Quirke to report back on the Magdalen redress scheme? Will he provide a date? Will he also clarify the reason that, notwithstanding certain indications he gave at the time, Summerhill in Wexford continues to be excluded from the terms of reference of the redress scheme? The Taoiseach indicated several times that the Government was reflecting on the issue of the Bethany Home. Will he outline what course of action he proposes to take on this issue and whether the Government has considered including the Bethany Home in the scheme? What course of action is envisaged in respect of the survivors concerned, for whom it is acknowledged across the benches of the Chamber that recognition and redress is needed?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not have the details of the progress made to date by Mr. Justice Quirke. From the direction given by the Government arising from the McAleese report on the Magdalen laundries, Mr. Justice Quirke is due to report back in a short period. However, I cannot provide the details now.
Summerhill was discussed at Cabinet level and is being considered to see whether it meets the conditions for inclusion in the scheme. The Bethany Home is in a different situation and the matter is being followed up by the Minister for Justice and Equality.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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On promised legislation, when can we expect publication of the assisted decision-making (capacity) Bill, which is No. 17 on the A list?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Bill is well advanced and will be published in this session.
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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When can we expect publication of the county enterprise boards (dissolution) Bill?
The Taoiseach will be aware of the widely held view that it is about time the Government bit the bullet on the issue of media monopolies. When exactly will the consumer and competition Bill make its long-awaited appearance?
11:20 am
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Both of those Bills are due this session.
Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Fine Gael)
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When does the Taoiseach expect the criminal records information system Bill, which is to provide for the exchange of criminal records information with other EU member states and other designated states, to be published?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That legislation will be forthcoming later this year. The heads of this complex Bill were cleared late last year.
Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that yesterday the Cabinet was to discuss the establishment of a €6 billion strategic investment fund, a matter in respect of which legislation will be required in the context of the NewERA project and the use of moneys from the National Pensions Reserve Fund. When will the relevant legislation be brought forward? Was any decision on this matter made yesterday?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The heads of the relevant Bill were approved by the Cabinet yesterday. The legislation will be drafted as a matter of urgency but I cannot provide an exact date for its publication.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Does the Government have any proposals to amend the Finance Bill to remove the draconian tax that has been imposed in respect of solid fuels? In a couple of weeks, the price of a bag of coal is due to increase by €3.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation is the Deputy referring?
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Finance Bill.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That has already been enacted. Is the Deputy referring to next year's finance Bill?
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Are there any proposals to change the position in this regard? The tax to which I refer is going to hurt vulnerable and elderly people.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Perhaps the Deputy might table a parliamentary question on the matter. We are dealing here with the Order of Business.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle might allow a Topical Issue debate on it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will consider it but we cannot make any promises.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach should provide an answer to my question now. This is not a laughing matter.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are short of time. There are only two minutes remaining on the Order of Business and a further four or five Deputies are offering.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That was a 45 and the Deputy hit it straight over the bar.
Brendan Griffin (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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It has been indicated that the microchipping of dogs will be introduced. When will the relevant legislation be forthcoming?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have not heard that dog bark yet. I will ensure Deputy Griffin obtains an update on the matter from the relevant Minister.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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When is the legislation relating to whistleblowers expected?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This session.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the inclusion of the pyrite levy Bill on the list of Government legislation. Is it intended to bring that legislation before the House as a matter of urgency in light of the widespread anxiety in respect of this matter? I have raised the mater of the Central Bank (consolidation) Bill on numerous occasions. When is it proposed to introduce that legislation?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As indicated yesterday, the second legislative item to which the Deputy refers will not be forthcoming until the Central Bank (Supervision and Enforcement) Bill 2011 is dealt with by the Houses. The legislation relating to pyrite was a priority of the late Minister of State, Mr. Shane McEntee. The heads of the Bill have not yet been presented to Government. However, we will proceed with the legislation as quickly as possible.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The consumer and competition Bill was included on the A list for the previous session but it was not introduced. Will it be published during the current session or will it be similar to two thirds of all legislation included on the A list in that it will not be taken until the next session?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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All I can say is that it will be this session.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That is definite.
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It is absolutely the case.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That commitment is now on the record of the Dáil.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is on the record of the Dáil and it was made in front of Deputy Ó Cuív. It will be this session.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely and no doubts.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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We are on a roll here because previous speakers all received positive replies. I am concerned with regard to the negative impact the local government Bill is going to have on local development companies. Deputy O'Dea inquired about county enterprise boards. I am of the view that it is very retrograde step to take these out of communities and force them into local authorities. What is the position with regard to the Bill?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It will be introduced this session. The Deputy will have the opportunity to debate all the relevant issues.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It will be an awfully long session altogether.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It will be a very busy session.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Is there any update on Mr. Justice Finnegan's report regarding Priory Hall? The Taoiseach provided a brief reply to Deputy Michael McGrath's question on the national investment plan. When will details of the plan be forthcoming? Will it include a public housing programme and support for the voluntary housing sector? To date during the Government's term of office, the public housing sector has effectively collapsed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government wrote to Deputy Broughan on 29 March and set out the-----
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister never provides answers.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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According to the Taoiseach, those opposite are all united.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----current position in this regard. The Minister indicated that his Department has contributed in excess of €500,000 towards the costs that were necessarily incurred by Dublin City Council, that he is supportive of the Priory Hall residents and the Department is supporting the efforts of the council. He also indicated that the council is continuing to work actively towards achieving the resolution of the long-running saga at Priory Hall. I will revert to the Deputy with further details.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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When is it expected to publish the legislation relating to betting on greyhound and horse racing? Will the relevant Bill make provision in respect of online casinos or will separate legislation be required? This is a major issue, particularly in light of the amount being gambled online.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We do not have a date for the introduction of the relevant legislation but it is not intended that it will include provision for online casinos.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will there be any legislation forthcoming in the aftermath of last night's telephone call from the troika to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move on.