Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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A problem has emerged for the brave men and women who are retained as part-time firefighters. These individuals were trained at a cost to the State and their local authority of nearly €30,000. They volunteer to be on stand by on a 24 hour basis for up to six days at a time, which makes it difficult for them to organise their lives. Their compensation for being on call amounts to approximately €8,000 per annum. The amounts may vary slightly by local authority, but they are around that figure.

One individual who came to me has been denied jobseeker's allowance because he is a firefighter and is on call by rotation. That rotation requires him to be within a short distance of the fire station at all times when on call, which means he must be no more than five minutes away from the station. If the person is employed, he or she must be able to leave that employment and rush down to the station. They must respond to the emergency when their bleepers go off. If we did not have these men and women around the country, the emergency response to fires, road and farm accidents and other emergencies would not be adequate. Our emergency services would collapse without these workers and we would see increased fatalities in fires and road accidents.

Ideally, the country, North and South, should be covered by a full-time firefighting service under a single authority and one fire chief. There would be significant savings involved if we reduced the number of fire chiefs to one, from the 30 or so existing fire chiefs. We could also reduce the number of assistant fire chiefs. The savings achieved could be retained and invested in building up the full-time service. However, in the meantime we are dependent on our full-time crews and the retained and volunteer crews.

The individual I mentioned, Gavin Burns, is attached to Dundalk fire station. I believe the Department of Social Protection is behaving obnoxiously in refusing him jobseeker's allowance for the period of time he is not in employment. Basically, he is a casual or part-time worker, as are up to 90,000 people in similar situations in other employment. The Department has argued that he is not available for work and that he is putting up too many barriers to finding work. I believe the Department has not taken into account his role or the role played by other similar people who have been refused part-payment of jobseeker's allowance. He moved from Carlingford to Dundalk to be closer to job opportunities and to be closer to the fire station. However, that was not taken into account. It was also unreasonable of the Department of Social Protection to demand that he give up his retained firefighter role to allow him to apply for full-time work. He is applying for full-time work anyway, including making applications to the likes of Aer Rianta, where his skills could be put to good use. His only source of income currently is the €8,000 he receives as a retained firefighter. Like many other people in the country, he has tried to get work and he is staying with relatives and friends in order to save money so that he is available for his emergency work.

Is it a new condition for part-time and casual workers that they must give up their work and enjoy the luxury of being full-time on the dole? That is unreasonable, and I hope it is not the case as it would cost the Department a fortune. Just imagine how much it would cost to pay the 80,000 or 90,000 casual or part-time workers if they were shifted onto full-time dole. I do not believe that is a direction the State wants to take. I hope people such as Gavin Burns, other retained firefighters and other workers will be accommodated by the part-time or casual worker mechanism within the jobseeker's allowance. Other workers such as dock workers, forestry workers and fishermen are accommodated, given the importance of their jobs. Why are conditions different for retained firefighters? At least, in Dundalk they are seen as different.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I thank the Deputy for his earlier forbearance. I have now been provided with a reply from the Minister of Social Protection, who is out of the country at this time.

Social welfare legislation provides that a person must satisfy the conditions of being available for and genuinely seeking work in order to be entitled to a jobseeker's payment. Any person who fails to satisfy these conditions on an ongoing basis is not entitled to such payment. Obviously, to be fair to the gentleman mentioned by the Deputy, that does not apply in his case.

Unlike other jobseekers, who must sign off the live register on any day on which they find work, part-time firefighters are paid a jobseeker's payment in respect of days on which they are engaged in firefighting or training. They are, however, required to satisfy other statutory conditions for the receipt of a jobseeker's payment - that is, they must continue to be available for and genuinely seeking work. In this respect, deciding officers do not treat them differently from any other jobseeker. I accept the point the Deputy has made in this regard, but I do not have the full details of the case to hand.

With regard to dealing with the systemic issue, I am familiar with the problems. In my area of Cork we have part-time firefighters and similar circumstances apply. Given the vagaries of this type of employment, issues relating to the eligibility of firefighters for jobseeker's payments have been raised with the Department of Social Protection on numerous occasions over the years. Taking account of the unusual circumstances of these workers and general efforts to develop and standardise the jobseeker schemes, a group was established in the Department to examine the position of firefighters. While the work of this group is largely completed, issues relating to firefighters remain under consideration in the Department. Key to these considerations will be recognition of the very valuable service this group of workers provide to their local communities. However, it is also important that the integrity of the jobseeker scheme is maintained. Achieving a balance in this regard will include recognising the important service these workers provide and the contribution they make to the safety of communities across the country.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply and the clarification he has given. I hope Gavin Burns and any other firefighter who has been refused jobseeker's payments will be able to use this reply to show deciding officers they are wrong to exclude them if they are genuinely seeking work. Mr. Burns has been genuinely seeking work. In one case he lost out on a job placement because he was not in receipt of a social welfare payment and Garda clearance did not come through on time. There are anomalies in this regard, and I hope the departmental group will conclude its work quickly. Mr. Burns was aware the group was considering the situation and had hoped it would deal with his issues.

The Minister has accepted that exceptions can be made in the case of firefighters and other part-time workers who are vital to protect and support our communities in times of distress such as fires. Hopefully, in this case, the Department will understand the intention of the Minister to allow part-time or retained firefighters to avail of jobseeker's allowance while not in full-time employment. Obviously, one would wish for all of them to have full-time employment and for their employers or prospective employers to take into account their firefighting requirements and allow them provide that service to their country and communities.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Again, I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. It would do no harm were the Deputy to refer the case of Gavin Burns to the Minister for reference as part of the ongoing review process.