Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Over the past two years, the Taoiseach has failed to do anything effective to help people in mortgage arrears. More than 180,000 mortgages are in arrears and the people involved are finding it extremely difficult to cope. Their experiences with the banks have been anything but pleasant. The Keane report, which was published over 18 months ago, made many recommendations, including the idea of split mortgages. We have learned that only about 50 such mortgages have been put into operation since the publication of that report. This is a damning indictment of the Taoiseach's lack of action on this front.

The Taoiseach still insists that the banks must have a veto over any resolution of mortgage arrears or household debt. He was going to enact legislation to facilitate banks in repossessing family homes. To add insult to injury, he insists that families in mortgage arrears pay a badly designed property tax. It escapes me how people who cannot pay their mortgages could pay a property tax. People find this incredible.

Senator Thomas Byrne and Deputy Michael McGrath published legislation in a constructive way in July 2011 which proposed the establishment of an independent debt settlement office. The Taoiseach did not take account of those recommendations. That legislation would have provided independent oversight of the resolution of household debt between banks and their customers. The Personal Insolvency Act is not yet operational. For over a month, I have been asking the Taoiseach to list the sections that have been enacted. At least 119 sections of the Act that is meant to deal with this issue remain unenacted or have not been commenced by the Government. The Cabinet sub-committee on this has only met twice since its establishment last July. All of this illustrates a lack of engagement and activity.

In respect of the plan the Taoiseach is announcing today, this is not about targets. It is about the quality of the restructuring that will take place between the banks and customers in respect of their mortgages. It must make a difference on the ground.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Setting targets will not help. I gave examples yesterday of cases in Ashbourne and elsewhere in which people have had obstacle after obstacle put in front of them in respect of getting a deal with the bank.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Martin is over time. Could he put his question?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The banks were not dealing with them. Will there will be independent oversight of the deals the banks strike with individuals? Will this oversight have teeth and ensure that the restructuring that may take place will be effective and will have real meaning for people who find themselves in arrears?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I listened to LMFM this morning and heard the spokesperson on finance making the comment that the reason the Minister for Finance was introducing initiatives today to deal with mortgage arrears was the by-election in County Meath. Has the Ceann Comhairle ever heard anything as strange as that? I noticed that the leader of Fianna Fáil drew that by-election into his comments here. The first thing I will remind him of is that the previous Government refused to hold by-elections because it was always afraid of the people. It had to change the law to ensure that by-elections would take place within six months.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Fine Gael would not even tell its colleagues in the Labour Party about it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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People should not be getting excited. I ask Deputy Kelleher to calm down.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This strategy has nothing to do with the by-election. Deputy Martin has pursued a misery agenda for long enough. I am not sure whether he is afraid he would actually sort this out, because when one looks back at what the previous Government did not do, one can see appalling behaviour and lack of competence on its part. Deputy Martin ignores the fact that the Government of which he was a central member was directly responsible for the infliction of economic burdens on every person in the country because of the way it allowed the banking system to run riot. People could not go to an ATM without getting notices that they had been approved for another €10,000, €15,000 or €50,000. This Government had to restructure and recapitalise the banks, change the boards and make a series of arrangements, including the introduction of the Personal Insolvency Act, which is not yet operational because the personal insolvency service will open its doors in early summer. There will be an announcement about that from the director, who has already been appointed and will be recruiting his staff towards the end of March.

The Minister for Finance will set out all the details of the mortgage targets and timeframes today and there will be similar announcements by the Central Bank. As Deputy Martin knows, the Central Bank controls the licences and can apply any conditions it sees fit to banks that do not adhere to conditions or rearrangements for persons in distress. I told Deputy Martin yesterday that we want to see an opportunity for those 100,000 people who exist for the banks and for their families to have some sense of security for the future. The Government aimed to bring about a variety of opportunities, which now exist, for restructuring and establishing different arrangements for those clients. The details of that will be presented by the Minister for Finance today. It is not true for Deputy Martin to say that the Government has shown inaction on this. For the past two years, this has been one of the central issues for it. That is why we had the Keane report and why some of its recommendations have been followed through, although others have not been followed through to the extent that we would like. The Minister of State with responsibility for housing and planning has been very active in respect of mortgage-to-rent and split mortgage arrangements.

Far from Deputy Micheál Martin's argument that there has been no activity on the part of the Government, the scale of the mess his party left behind was absolutely unprecedented in the history of the country.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach sought a mandate.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The scale of that mess means they are walking into constituency offices all over the country and every single person knows-----

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If the by-election is put off, they might get something done.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----that the reason all of this was inflicted upon the country was the incompetence of the Fianna Fáil Government in dealing with the banks, as Deputy Micheál Martin well knows.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Micheál Martin to continue, without interruption.

Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Arise and follow Charlie.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked the Taoiseach a very straight and simple question. He refused to answer it yesterday and has refused to answer it today.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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He has no answer.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will there be independent oversight of the banks in their dealings with people in mortgage arrears?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Is the answer "Yes" or "No"?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Keane report was published 18 months ago and its recommendations have not been followed through. A total of approximately 50 split mortgages out of 182,000 mortgages in arrears does not represent action by the Taoiseach or anyone else. The Governor of the Central Bank said he was tearing his hair out. The Deputy Governor, Ms Fiona Muldoon, said last November that the banks were not doing what they should be doing in engaging with people. All of the political bluster from and the arrogance of the Taoiseach will not change these basic facts.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No interruptions, please. The Taoiseach is quite capable of answering the questions asked.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach talks about elections and by-elections. He should talk to those who are in mortgage arrears-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy, please, put his supplementary question to the Taoiseach?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----who are working, who have salaries and who want to pay their mortgages. They have asked the banks to do a deal with them, but all they get in response is obstacles put in their way by the banks. There has been no action on this front. The banks were recapitalised to the tune of €9 billion to deal with the issue of mortgage impairment and mortgage difficulties, but there has been no engagement between the banks and their customers. I will ask the Taoiseach the same question again. Will there be independent oversight of the banks in their dealings with customers? To date, they have demonstrated, as evidenced by the remarks of the Governor and the Deputy Governor of the Central Bank, that on their own and left to their own devices, they will not deal effectively with those in arrears. That is why the Government needs to intervene in an affirmative way to ensure there is independent oversight of the behaviour of the banks in their dealings with customers.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy failed to talk to people in mortgage distress when he had the opportunity to do so. The answer to his question is "Yes". The Central Bank will provide for independent oversight of arrangements made between banks and their clients.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They put their hands in the air and stated they could not deal with it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Gerry Adams.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Central Bank has had oversight for the past two years.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have called Deputy Gerry Adams who has a right to have his say.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I remind Fianna Fáil and the Government parties that there would not be a compulsion to hold by-elections within six months if Deputy Pearse Doherty had not gone to court to bring this about. The Taoiseach has been in government for two years and the number of families in mortgage arrears has almost doubled. Contrary to what he said, the Government has taken a softly, softly attitude to the banks. He did not need yesterday's report to show that the salaries of top bankers were too high, yet he is only proposing a 10% cut. The big issue is that he has given the banks a veto over any arrangements reached through the personal insolvency services. The record shows that the banks are unwilling to deal compassionately or efficiently with citizens in mortgage arrears. On top of all this, this week householders are receiving letters from Revenue about the tax on the family home. This tax was designed by Fianna Fáil and is now being delivered by Fine Gael and the Labour Party. It is a very unfair tax.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I have a little question for the Taoiseach. Who said, "Fianna Fáil's proposal, now endorsed by the Labour Party, to introduce by 2014 an annual recurring residential property tax on the family home, is unfair"?

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Supported by Sinn Féin.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach said it. Do not give us the guff about the North. People pay rates in the North-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Deputy to finish his question and then we can get on with the business.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle. The fact is Deputies know that what I am saying is accurate. People in the North pay rates for which they receive services which are denied to householders in this state. I refer to refuse collections, water services, prescriptions and free schoolbooks for their children. We have in this state perhaps the largest potholes in the western world.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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May we have a question for the Taoiseach, please?

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It was the Taoiseach who said this property tax on the family home was unfair. Does he still accept that it is an unfair tax? If he is changing tack now, explicitly that means he is admitting failure thus far. Does he accept that his hands-off approach to the banks has failed miserably?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not agree. This year 65% of property tax revenue will be retained by the local authorities. The Government's intention is to bring that figure to 80% for use in the provision of services in the local authority areas where people pay their property tax. This is a fair tax, whereby those who have the most will pay the most. It has been set out to provide services in local areas. I assume the Deputy already pays tax on the premises he owns in west Belfast and that he will pay it on the house he owns in County Donegal. I assume he will also pay it on the other house in County Louth.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Like the Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sure the Deputy will not object to being a multiple property taxpayer in compliance with the law of the land and for the provision of services in his own area.

In respect of mortgages, the Minister for Finance will outline the details this afternoon. I wish to inform the Deputy that the banks do not have a veto over the insolvency legislation, nor do they have a veto over the reduction from 12 years to three.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Or course they have a veto.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That provides an incentive for banks to sit down with clients to deal with their particular problems by means of the wide variety of opportunities such as those outlined in the Keane report and elsewhere to restructure and re-engineer their mortgages which are in distress.

The Deputy's rant about evictions and house repossessions is nonsensical. I note that even his own spokesman on finance, when pressed in a recent interview, said repossessions would take place in a small number of cases - this is how everyone understands it to be - where no effort had been made to repay mortgages in cases where it was possible to repay them.

I reiterate for the Deputy that 65% of property tax revenue this year, rising to 80%, will be retained by the local authorities in the areas in which the property tax is paid for the provision of services and infrastructure.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We need to deal with the substance of these issues. For a man from County Mayo, to even suggest eviction from or repossession of a family home - even if the number is small - would be justifiable is totally and absolutely reprehensible. Rather than jibing at us, I ask the Taoiseach to deal with the substance. One in four mortgage holders is in distress. People have had tax upon tax imposed upon them. They cannot pay it. That is the reality.

What we have argued for is the establishment of a statutorily independent body that would impose settlements which would be legally binding agreements between mortgage holders and the banks and which would include - the Government has ruled this out - write-downs, where appropriate. What we are seeking would deal with the substance of the problem. The Government has a veto, but it has given this to the banks. It should now remove it. On the numerous occasions on which I have raised the issue the Taoiseach has stated the regulator does not want the Government to intervene and that, therefore, it cannot do anything. The Government has done very little of substance in order to put manners on the banks.

A Deputy:

Those in Sinn Féin did a bit of that themselves.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance must put the entire issue of a family's right to a home on a legislative footing. The assurance that the Government has not yet given must be provided now. The Taoiseach should not wait until the afternoon. He should stand up and clearly state there will be no forced repossessions of family homes.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I understand the history and tradition to which the Deputy refers. I recall the stories in my part of the country, particularly that relating to one of the great initiators of the agrarian movement, Michael Davitt, whose family were evicted from the family home at Straide. I understand the point Deputy Gerry Adams is making very well.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach should not let it happen again on his watch.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have no intention of doing so.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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A voice from the wilderness.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Making a direct allegation.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On Monday last, 11 March, when asked a question on a national radio programme as to whether repossession should ever be an option in the case of the family home, Sinn Féin's spokesman on finance stated it should be an option but only in extreme circumstances. He also indicated that there had to be legal protection and legislative provision to the effect that banks could not swoop in and purchase homes. He went on to state the option of repossession had to be available to a bank if somebody with an ability to pay his or her mortgage was not doing so. The individual in question was asked, "So you are not ruling it out?" to which he replied that repossession should happen "Only for somebody who is completely defaulting on their mortgage and who has an ability to pay." Deputy Gerry Adams should not come before the House and state he has a new version of what his party's spokesman said on Monday.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We have a very clear perspective of what is required and the Government should have one, too.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I wish to make it perfectly clear that the Government wants there to be a fair and transparent process for dealing with mortgages. What we want to do is get the people whose mortgages are either in arrears or distress to the point where they can enjoy the psychological relief to the effect that their homes will not be taken from them and where they can contribute to their local economies and live their lives. That is the reason the Minister for Finance and the Government, working with the Central Bank, are putting in place all of the arrangements that will be announced later today. Under these arrangements, targets and timelines will be set by the banks which now have staff who are trained to deal with the circumstances under discussion which are unique in each case. The repossession of family homes will be the very last resort. No Member of the House wants to see homes being repossessed. However, even the Deputy's party recognises that repossession will occur in a small number of cases.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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People have a right to a family home.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Family Home Protection Act is on the Statute Book and the property rights of every citizen are protected under the Constitution.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Gerry Adams should read the Constitution.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What is happening today is part of the strategy and process of restructuring and recapitalising banks and providing alternatives for people through the personal insolvency agency which will open its doors shortly. In order to rectify matters, we are seeking to make available a variety of ways by which banks can work out more appropriate, convenient and suitable arrangements for those clients whose mortgages have, for whatever reason, gone into arrears or become distressed. Everyone wants the economy to move on. This is a problem and in the past two years the Government has put in place structures to rectify it. These structures will be detailed later today by the Minister for Finance when he speaks on this matter.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy John Halligan.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should resume his seat.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I seek guidance on when I can raise a point of order.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume his seat. I call Deputy John Halligan.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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I have spoken on several occasions about what I perceive to be woeful neglect on the part of IDA Ireland in replacing hundreds of jobs lost in recent years, particularly in the manufacturing sector, and its failure to introduce employment investment, especially in the south east. It has been brought to my attention, from within IDA Ireland, that the organisation is wasting millions of euro of taxpayers' money in order to lease empty buildings throughout the country each year. I was brought to a cluster unit in Waterford-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should switch off his phone.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is Bertie calling Deputy Finian McGrath.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Point taken.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy John Halligan is in the middle of framing a question.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I am not taking his calls.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan should be left out of it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy John Halligan should proceed.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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I was taken to visit a cluster unit in my constituency which had been lying idle for 15 years. The position is the same in several other such units throughout the country and this has resulted in an outlay of €2.5 million in rent each year, with no return for the taxpayer in the long term. I am informed that the leases for these properties are unbreakable. I am also informed that over half of the commercial premises leased by IDA Ireland are either unused and idle. One such premises in Dublin is costing the taxpayer €1.3 million per year. The cost for several others is €750,000 annually. Many of the leases on these properties are set to run for another couple of decades. I visited one premises in respect of which, when the lease expires, we will have paid €1 million extra. In the current economic climate which has been catastrophic for SMEs and small businesses how is it possible that such wanton waste of taxpayers' money is being allowed? We are leaving buildings idle and spending considerable amounts on leases and rates at a time when the country is literally on its knees and cutbacks are being made in disability and health services. The Taoiseach knows as well as I do that many start-ups fail in the first year because of the burden of rents and rates. I am aware of people who start up their businesses and are obliged to run their operations from a bedroom or sitting-room in their own homes for a year or two before they can rent suitable premises. Is the Taoiseach in a position to indicate whether all of the leases to which I refer are definitely unbreakable? If not, will he make urgent inquiries in order to discover whether we can extricate ourselves from them and vacate others which are coming up for review? Will he press for the development of a new scheme or initiative by means of which new uses could be found for the buildings to which I refer? Perhaps they might be given to companies either free of charge or at considerably reduced rates. I reiterate that we are wasting millions of euro of taxpayers' money each year in the current economic climate.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Well done.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy John Halligan for raising this matter. IDA Ireland is the agency which has for many years dealt with inward investment. Of its type, it is one of the best in the world. It has an extraordinary record of success and last year was one of the agency's best to date. It works with companies that wish to invest in the country in the areas of manufacturing, research and development, innovation, etc.

In the past the industries which used to be interested in Ireland required what were called "advance factories". The Deputy will be aware of them, many of which were smaller warehouses and units and built - either individually or in clusters - throughout the country. They were not confined to the south east or any other location. There are aging advanced factories at various locations which were never occupied or which were only occupied for very short periods. The reason for this is IDA Ireland was of the view that it was appropriate to have a building ready should companies decide to establish operations at particular locations. Matters have very much moved on and the vast majority of companies that wish to invest in Ireland now require greenfield sites of a much greater scale than was the case in the past. These companies want buildings to be designed to meet their needs and circumstances. The Deputy is correct when he states leases were entered into on a longer term basis for many of the older buildings, one of which has been unoccupied since 1998.

I do not know the details of the contracts, but it is important that a company looking at Ireland and its distinct advantages, be it from the point of view of tax, talent, technology or track record, has access to buildings that are available. That is the reason IDA Ireland had a leased arrangement for a number of buildings that might be suitable for particular companies. The Deputy is well aware that the bigger companies require a much bigger scale and scope in terms of site acquisition.

One can never estimate accurately what might happen. For instance, Eistech, which had only nine positions last year, has more than 400 now and it has announced a further 250 for Wexford. That company has expanded and grown rapidly because it does its business so well.

There were 33 visits by IDA Ireland to the south east in 2012. The scale of interest is being highlighted by the authority for companies to consider. That is replicated at home by Enterprise Ireland, which is constantly engaging with smaller Irish companies that might like to grow, change direction or have the opportunity to expand their markets.

The Deputy's point about the scale and the number of leases is correct. Traditionally, that is the reason that happened. It is very different now in that companies wishing to come here look for much bigger sites and buildings of a particular design that is suitable for their specific needs.

We can examine the policy of holding on to much older advance factories or locations with IDA Ireland, but I believe in most cases the leases were set out for a longer period. The total outstanding balance payable on leases in County Waterford, for instance, to the end of their terms is approximately €1 million.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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I will make two points. First, my contact within IDA Ireland is a conscientious chap and it bothers him to think that all this money is being wasted every year. He made the point to me that in respect of some premises around the country that were taken on 15, 16 or 17 years ago, IDA Ireland now acknowledges it has no hope of introducing multinational companies into those areas because of their locations, but it is tied into these leases for another five or six years, which is a cost to the taxpayer.

Second, in opposition we are often accused of not offering alternatives or making critical analyses, but at a time when new businesses, charitable organisations and youth groups are struggling, how can it be the case that half of all IDA Ireland premises, some of which have been lying idle for 15 years, may still be lying idle in five or ten years' time at a huge cost to the taxpayer? In the current economic circumstances, as the person in IDA Ireland told me, we can ill afford to waste €10, let alone €2.5 million, every year on empty premises when we could be helping out the people in this country.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If we are talking specifically about older advance factory-type buildings which have lain idle or were used only for a very short time, I am not sure of the details of any particular contract or lease, but if somebody else wants to use one of these buildings, I am sure there is an opportunity for discussion or negotiation. If some local indigenous operator wanted to acquire a premises in which to do business, I am sure IDA Ireland would be willing to discuss that. IDA Ireland knows best, in terms of its success rate over the years, where companies might want to locate, and it cannot force them to locate in any particular area.

The Deputy's point is that the buildings are in situ. In this city, for instance, the extent of interest in investing is very high. I am quite sure that empty buildings that are under lease are being viewed constantly by potential investors who wish to set up here. I can confirm for the Deputy that the line of investment and interest in investing in the country is very strong. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, was in Texas last week talking to people from 40 different companies. I hope to enhance that progress when I have the opportunity to meet with a range of potential investors in the United States next week. Also, with regard to indigenous operators, the Deputy will be aware that Irish firms employ more than 100,000 people in 50 states. Many of those want to expand, and it may be the case that the point the Deputy raised could be considered. I thank the Deputy for doing so.