Dáil debates

Wednesday, 6 March 2013

Other Questions

Road Traffic Offences

2:30 pm

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he has received the final report of the Assistant Garda Commissioner into allegations that fixed charge notices mainly for speeding have been inappropriately cancelled; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11604/13]

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will provide an update on the investigation by An Garda Síochána into the allegations by whistleblowers that road traffic offences have been quashed by senior gardaí. [11567/13]

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 17 together.

These questions relate to the issue surrounding the allegations concerning the cancellation of fixed charge notices. Fixed charge notices are provided for under the Road Traffic Act 2002 and are an alternative to prosecution. They give a motorist the opportunity to acknowledge the offence, pay the fixed charge and, where the offence is a penalty point offence, incur the appropriate penalty points. While the issuing of a fixed charge notice does not constitute commencement of legal proceedings, it normally leads to a prosecution if the fixed charge is not paid.

There can be circumstances, however, where the fixed charge notice may be cancelled, in accordance with Garda procedures drawn up in the light of legislative exemptions and prosecutorial guidelines. Cancellation occurs where it is believed the evidence would not sustain a prosecution or a prosecution would not be appropriate, fair or proportionate. The procedures provide authority to district officers, or inspectors acting as district officers, and an inspector in the fixed charge processing office to cancel fixed charge notices.

Cancellation can occur in circumstances where, for example, exemptions apply for emergency vehicles or the wearing of seatbelts, or where there are evidential difficulties, such as where the registration number registered by a speed camera does not correspond to the vehicle in question, or where there are emergency medical circumstances such as, for example, a sick child being driven to hospital, an imminent birth, or a medical professional rushing to a sick or elderly patient. Access to cancel a fixed charge notice through PULSE is restricted to users with the rank of inspector or higher.

The examination directed by the Commissioner into the allegations concerning the cancellation of fixed charge notices is continuing and I expect a report on the findings shortly. I have received an interim report from the Commissioner, but I will not be making any further comment on any of the allegations until the final report is available. It would be premature and wrong to assume that all of these cancellations of fixed charge notices were inappropriate, or that money has been lost to the Exchequer as a consequence. Equally, it is premature for calls to be made for a statutory inquiry into these matters. Let us await the final report on this matter, which I understand from the Garda Commissioner is nearing completion and I expect to receive in two weeks time.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for that reply. He could almost recite it by rote at this stage - he does not need the script in his hand. We were told this report would be issued in January but we are still waiting for it. The Minister says it will be ready in two weeks and I hope that is the case. Does the Minister realise, however, the depth of public interest in these issues? This is not just confined to fixed penalty notices. It goes broader than that, as we know from the information we have received from the whistleblowers.

I originally submitted a question to confirm a question I submitted last month and was asked by the Questions Office to change it and table this question because if I did not table this question, I would not get in the original question, which specifically asked the Minister's response to the points I made last time. I will not name the two members of the Judiciary so the Minister need not worry but I did not get a reasonable reply to the question I submitted last month.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Questions Office was trying to help the Deputy to submit a question, in case people think the Deputy was not allowed to ask questions about this issue. The question that the Deputy submitted was out of order according to Standing Orders and was about to be disallowed. To help the Deputy, the Questions Office contacted her so it is wrong to say there was any interference in any question tabled. The simple thing to do would have been to disallow the question so in fairness to the Questions Office, I ask the Deputy to recognise this was done to be helpful.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I recognise the staff in the Questions Office must work under direction.

2:40 pm

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They have to operate under Standing Orders.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I had a similar question in on the last occasion and it was not ruled out of order or changed. The point must be made that there is no malice in naming names. We wanted to raise the serious issue of the information available to us of thousands of penalty points being quashed and that we need to get this addressed. I hope that the report the Minister gets back in two weeks' time will give some indication on it, and perhaps the matter of the two members of the Judiciary would be clarified as well.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Deputy Mac Lochlainn. Deputy Crowe's question was also taken.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not realise the Minister was taking them together.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Questions Nos. 10 and 17 are being taken together.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Some of the other Deputies have referred to whistleblowers within the force having brought into the public domain what they claim to be shoddy practice. Apparently, it is limited to a number of districts. It is not widespread. The bottom line is that the public needs to know. It would be appalling and outrageous for the overwhelming majority of motorists who have paid their fine, taken the points, taken it on the chin and adapted their driving to think that there was some arrangement.

This is a most serious matter. Unfortunately, sometimes it gets caught up in persons being named, etc. The bottom line is a significant number of road traffic offences have allegedly been written off without any proper procedure being taken by senior members of the Garda. Those are the allegations to which a number of Deputiew are privy.

I appreciate the Minister's response that he will await the report in two weeks' time. I commend him for stating he will publish the report. It needs to be done. At that stage, we need a full and frank debate in this House about the report and its implications and where we go from there. It does a damning disservice to the overwhelming majority of gardaí who serve the State will great pride that, in the issues that we have been raised today they perhaps involve only a small minority of the force. We will see how the report comes out but the allegations are very serious.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a personal level, I have a great deal of time for Deputy Mac Lochlainn and it is difficult to criticise what he states. Occasionally, however, I must listen on this side of the House. Less than half an hour ago, Members from across the House, including Deputy Mac Lochlainn, criticised me, as they are entitled to do, as being in some way responsible for what is reported to be the low morale in the Garda force. The Members who want to talk about low morale in the force on one issue are then persistently making allegations against members of the force, that they do not properly conduct themselves, they are basically a law unto themselves and they are making decisions that they should not be making.

The penalty point issue is a case in point. I will not prejudge it. I do not know whether issues have been dealt with properly or improperly and unlike the Members who raised the issue in the first place, I will not prejudge the outcome. If Members who want to make an issue about low morale in the Garda force are talking about the difficulties in other areas, they might focus on whether they are contributing to a perception by some members of the force that it does not get the support to which it is entitled by constantly regurgitating this issue.

I take this issue seriously. I have taken it seriously since the allegations were first made. Within a short time of the allegations being brought to my notice, after I had an opportunity to give consideration to them I brought them to the attention of the Garda Commissioner and asked that the matter be fully investigated. That is now happening. I will not revisit it on an allegation-by-allegation basis, nor will I use it as a vehicle, either to name or not name Members of the House or to describe limited groups of persons in this House in a way that is designed to create a pejorative public perspective on them, which is what has been happening from the four Members opposite me. In fairness, Deputy Mac Lochlainn is more circumspect in what he is saying.

It is a serious issue and I await the outcome of the investigation. We will then address that outcome in a manner that is appropriate and we will get answers. As Minister, I want answers. However, I wonder whether the answers will be acceptable to everyone. I do not know what they will be but I suspect that if they do not fit in to the narrative of some they might not be happy and if they do, they will be celebratory. I do not know what the outcome will be. Either way, let us not use this as a mechanism to damage the reputation of members of An Garda Síochána in the eyes of the public.

I repeat I do not include Deputy Mac Lochlainn in this. I want to be clear. Let us not use this as a mechanism to, on a daily or weekly basis, get what is perceived to be a bit of beneficial personal publicity.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are over time.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The gardaí are just doing their business.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask Deputy Wallace to be brief.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On the issue of the penalty points, the Minister rubbished my assertion that the Commissioner was throwing cold water on the investigation. I will quote the Commissioner in December last.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Wallace will not quote anything. The Deputy will not imply things.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Commissioner stated, "There is no question of what has been described as a culture of non-enforcement of penalties being tolerated by An Garda Síochána".

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Wallace should resume his seat. I called him to ask a supplementary question, not to make a statement. The Deputy should resume his seat.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can I ask the supplementary question?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Wallace must adhere to the rules of the House.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Would the Minister agree that an independent investigation was more likely to give us accountability and transparency?

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can assure Deputy Wallace there will be transparency in the sense that I will publish the outcome of this investigation. Then we will make decisions as to what, if anything, needs to be done. We will be able to ascertain whether what has been alleged is true or untrue. We may be able to ascertain whether the background to this is as simple as presented by Deputy Wallace and his colleagues or is a great deal more complex. Let us await the outcome.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.