Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he plans to meet with the representatives of Garda representative organisations in order to address their concerns; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11758/13]

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I am always available to meet the Garda associations to discuss issues of concern, as is the Garda Commissioner. The Commissioner met the executive committees of all the representative bodies in recent days to discuss issues arising from the recent negotiations on extending the Croke Park agreement.

I am disappointed both the Garda Representative Association, GRA, and Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, chose not to participate in these negotiations which were facilitated by the Labour Relations Commission. This was the opportunity for the associations to raise issues of concern and put their point of view on how best savings could be achieved in the Garda Síochána. I understand that anything that impacts on the pay and-or conditions of their members is a matter of grave concern for the GRA, AGSI and every member of the force, but that is the case for all unions and associations. It would have been far better if both associations had stayed at the table, talked through these options and engaged in the process of negotiation.

It is not the case, as has been suggested, that the associations were in some way excluded from real negotiations. It is true they are not trade unions and are not, therefore, represented by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. While this means there must be parallel negotiations with the associations, it does not make, nor would it have made, such negotiations any less real, and they have not been any less real in the past. Exactly the same position applied to the Defence Forces associations and they concluded a deal with their management counterparts which was facilitated by the Labour Relations Commission. Parallel negotiations were also conducted with the Prison Officers Association, even though they are represented by congress, because of the unique issues which arise in the Prison Service. No one is saying the prison officers were disadvantaged by such sectoral talks or that the Prison Officers Association was not serving the best interests of its members by remaining engaged in the talks.

The GRA and AGSI chose to leave this process. Despite repeated calls from the Taoiseach, myself and others, they refused to re-enter the talks where they may have shaped the outcome in the best interests of their members, as did other unions and associations.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

In the words of the Garda Representative Association, "the GRA executive rejected all such proposals that included a cut in Garda pay and decided we would not participate in any process that proposed such cuts". In the case of AGSI, its executive stated: "removing AGSI from the talks was in the best interest of members to protect core pay which includes allowances". It is only in recent days that it has been suggested the associations were excluded from the talks.

Both the Commissioner and I are always available to engage in constructive and meaningful discussions on matters affecting members of the Garda Síochána. However, it must be clearly understood that any such engagement in the context of these proposals most certainly cannot be interpreted as representing an attempt to re-open negotiations on the proposals which emerged from the talks in Lansdowne House from which the AGSI and the GRA withdrew. Those proposals stand as they are.

I recognise the important role that members of the Garda Síochána play in society. It is especially praiseworthy that they have shown this dedication and commitment in these most difficult times. At an individual level, there have been pay reductions, and for the force in general there are constraints on its budget. I fully understand how difficult this is at an individual and operational level and I earnestly wish things were different. The Government's aim in engaging in the negotiations was to achieve the necessary €1 billion in savings in the public sector payroll, to try to protect the basic pay of public servants at the lower end of the scale and to ensure an equitable contribution from all. We must cut our cloth to suit our measure and no sector of the public service can argue it is different from everybody else and the cuts cannot apply to them.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister was the Fine Gael spokesperson on justice a couple of years ago when he sat on this side of the Chamber. He would have asked the questions that I am asking and would have had contacts with the Garda Representative Association, GRA, and spoken to gardaí on the ground. He knows the type of relationship that Opposition spokespersons have with gardaí.

Ignoring the political football, there is a crisis of morale in the Garda. These negotiations were the final straw. Gardaí will see an 8% cut in their take-home pay. These are not premium payments. They work unsocial hours and often put themselves in danger to protect the public. We need the Minister to intervene. He needs to meet the GRA and the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, to probe through the issues and determine whether there is any common ground on which their concerns can be addressed.

I will conclude on my next point, as I wish to ask a second question.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do, please.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister clarify the proposal on the five vans? Some 143 Garda stations have closed and there has been a significant reduction in the number of gardaí and vehicles. There are reports that many of those vehicles are not up to standard, yet the response is five vans. This demonstrates that someone at a high level is badly out of touch. Will the Minister address these two issues, please?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Just over two minutes are remaining.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I have genuine concerns about the position in which members of the force now find themselves. I believe the force was very ill-served by the conduct of the GRA and the AGSI in stepping outside the talks. They had a very important contribution to make to shaping the outcome of those talks and to addressing specific issues that related to members of An Garda Síochána with which I am personally familiar. Unfortunately, the GRA and the AGSI took a different course. In the words of the GRA, "The GRA executive rejected all such proposals that included a cut in Garda pay, and decided we would not participate in any process that proposed such cuts". It could have been involved in the talks but it chose not to be involved.

In the case of the AGSI, its executive stated that removal of the AGSI from the talks was in the best interests of members, namely, to protect core pay, including allowances. It was not. Rather, it was in the best interests of members that the AGSI engaged. Members of the Garda force should ask themselves whether the representative bodies of the Defence Forces engaged, whether the Prison Officers Association engaged, and whether those engagements achieved outcomes, which they did, that were sure to shape the architecture of what was agreed. Why did their representative bodies not make this contribution?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have just under one minute remaining.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It was only in later days that the suggestion was put forward that they had been excluded from the talks.

I want to say in direct response to the point raised by the Deputy that both the Commissioner and I are always available to engage in constructive and meaningful discussions on matters affecting members of An Garda Síochána. However, it must be clearly understood that, in any such engagement, the context of these proposals most certainly cannot be interpreted as representing an attempt to re-open negotiations on the proposals that emerged from the talks at Lansdowne House from which the AGSI and the GRA withdrew. These proposals stand as they are, but I totally acknowledge and recognise the important role played by members of the Garda force in our society. It is especially praiseworthy that they have shown dedication and commitment in these most difficult times. I know that, at an individual level and in the context of pay reductions, members of the force are finding this difficult.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am afraid that our time has concluded.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I understand those difficulties but similar difficulties are being experienced by people across the public service. They are unfortunately a consequence-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, but we have gone over time for this question.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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-----of the enormous financial difficulties with which the State is confronted.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I will be brief.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, Deputy, but we have gone over time.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I did not eat into my time.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The four minutes for supplementary questions have concluded. I am sorry.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I am respectful of the Ceann Comhairle's steer, but I am losing-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I appreciate that, but I am only applying the rules. The Standing Orders have been changed. They have not been approved by the Dáil yet, but they have been brought to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I will revisit the matter later.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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To be of help to the Deputy, we will have an opportunity to respond to his other questions later.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.