Dáil debates
Tuesday, 5 March 2013
Order of Business
5:10 pm
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. a13, motion re by-election for Meath East, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business; No. 13, Finance Bill 2013 – allocation of time motion for select sub-committee; No. 14, Finance Bill 2013 – Financial Resolutions; No. 15, Finance (Local Property Tax) (Amendment) Bill 2013 – Financial Resolution; No. 16, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann that section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966 shall continue in force for the period ending on 8 March 2014, back from committee; and No. 27 - Finance (Local Property Tax) (Amendment) Bill 2013, Committee and Remaining Stages.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and shall adjourn not later than 10.30 p.m.; (2) the proceedings on No. a13 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 25 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the speeches shall be made by the Taoiseach, Tánaiste, and the leaders of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and a representative of the Technical Group or a person nominated in their stead, and such Members may share their time; (3) Nos. 13, 14, 15 and 16 shall be decided without debate and in the case of No. 14, Financial Resolutions Nos. 1 to 42, inclusive, shall be moved together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair; (4) the Committee and Remaining Stages of No. 27 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; and (5) in the event a division is in progress at the time fixed for taking Private Members' business, which shall be No. 97, motion re health insurance, Standing Order 121(3) shall not apply and Private Members’ business shall, if not previously concluded, adjourn after 90 minutes.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are five proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. agreed to?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, it is not agreed.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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No.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The programme for Government included a commitment to tackle the over-use of guillotines to ram through non-emergency legislation. What we have essentially today in the first item on the Order of Business is an attempt to do just that in the context of the Finance (Local Property Tax) (Amendment) Bill. A total of 67 amendments have been tabled to the Bill. However, only two and a half hours has been allocated for the entire Committee Stage. There is no emergency at issue. Approximately three minutes is provided for debate on each amendment. The vast majority of the Bill will not be debated because the Government is unnecessarily guillotining the debate, as it did with the original Bill before Christmas, when only three of the 88 amendments were discussed. The Government has had to bring forward an amending Bill because of the rushed nature of the Bill before Christmas. On this side of the House we are putting forward a range of amendments to provide exemptions or relief for certain categories. Notwithstanding our belief that this is the wrong tax at the wrong time, we wish to table an amendment that households in mortgage arrears would be exempt. I cannot understand how people who cannot pay their mortgage are being asked to pay the tax.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry but we cannot have a debate on the issue.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We tabled an amendment to the effect that people in negative equity would be exempt, in conformity with the recommendations of the Commission on Taxation. We also tabled an amendment on households in receipt of certain social protection payments and for pensioners. We further tabled an amendment to deal with people who paid large amounts of stamp duty in the past ten years. Finally, we tabled amendments on low-income households. We will not get an opportunity to debate those amendments. The same thing happened with the Social Welfare Bill and the Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill before Christmas and now it is going to happen again. The Government is ramming the Bill through, showing scant regard for Parliament, the Dáil and the people, who would like Members of the House to have an opportunity to give full vent to these issues, and to have adequate time to put arguments and counter-arguments, amendment by amendment. The Government is showing no regard; it just wants to ram the Bill through as fast as it possibly can regardless of commitments it made in the programme for Government.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I also oppose proposal No. 1. There are 67 amendments tabled to the Bill, which allows for less than two minutes for each amendment. We know we will not reach the vast majority of the amendments. I refer to the families who cannot afford to pay the tax for a range of reasons, in particular those in mortgage distress. We wish to debate, argue and discuss such matters. The Government is tearing up all the flowery words it used in talking about reforming politics, how the Oireachtas works and the people's revolution. Why does the Taoiseach not allow these issues to be fully debated?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach is making a mockery of this House and of the democratic process in the way he is guillotining these Bills. As I said to him last week, there is now an absolutely clear, deliberate and cynical policy on his part that where a Bill is not controversial and has all-party support, he lets it run on for days or weeks, but if a Bill is controversial, particularly if it inflicts further suffering on ordinary families in this country, working people and the unemployed - vulnerable sectors in society - he tries to ram it through without adequate time for debate, scrutiny or amendment. He is allowing just over two minutes each for 67 amendments. That is utterly unacceptable. He did exactly the same prior to Christmas when only three of 88 amendments were discussed. It is absolutely undermining and eroding the democratic process in the most cynical way. The Government Members smile like Cheshire cats when they do this because they think it is funny. However, undermining the democratic process is not funny. It is bad enough that the Government is doing this to the citizens of this country but to refuse to allow proper debate and scrutiny of the legislation by the public and the Dáil is outrageous beyond belief. What is the Taoiseach going to do? Is he going to honour the words in his programme for Government on the democratic revolution or is he going to shred democracy in order to impose the diktats of the troika?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On Thursday, Deputy Boyd Barrett created consternation in the House. He refused to accept two extra hours of debate on Friday and to have the debate continue until 5.30 p.m.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We said we wanted more time for Committee Stage.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was Second Stage.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Quiet, please.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We had provided time from 10.30 a.m. until 3.30 p.m., and two extra hours were offered so that the nation could listen to Deputy Boyd Barrett's glorious incantations-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There is more cynicism. We asked for a vote.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should please allow the Taoiseach to speak.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----but he turned it down. It is well known, as it has long been signalled, that the Revenue Commissioners, who will implement the mechanics of the implementation and collection of the property tax-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Like bloodhounds.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----want to send out their notices to liable persons next week. That is the reason we want the Bill to be dealt with all day today and to go through the Seanad tomorrow.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is blood lust.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Members are aware that elements in the Bill are important for people such as those with pyrite-affected homes, deferrals for personal representatives, a range of other deferrals and exemptions, relief for disabled persons-----
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Give it another week, Taoiseach, and it will be closer to the by-election.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----local adjustment factors, sale of property between liability and payment dates, deliberate under-declaration of chargeable value, liable person definitions and approved housing bodies and local authorities. A number of technical amendments are required. It is time for Deputy Boyd Barrett to move on. He had his rant on Thursday. He refused to agree to two extra hours of debate.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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That is awful. It is disgraceful.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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It is outrageous.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We want to move the issue on and deal with it. Deputy Boyd Barrett will have his say.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not a rant, Taoiseach.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not a rant.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am now putting the question.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach is absolutely trampling on the democratic process.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, would you please resume your seat?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I apologise to you, a Cheann Comhairle-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, resume your seat.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----but the Taoiseach is absolutely trampling on the democratic process.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett, will you resume your seat, please?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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He is trampling on the democratic process.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett, you will be walking if you do not listen to me.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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You refuse to allow debate.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do you hear me?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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You know quite well. I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am issuing a last warning to you.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is absolutely unacceptable.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will you resume your seat?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach is trampling on the democratic process.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am suspending the sitting of the House for five minutes.
5:20 pm
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The proposal is that Dáil Éireann shall sit later than 9.30 p.m. and shall adjourn not later than 10.30 p.m. Is that agreed?
Tá
- Joan Burton
- Ray Butler
- Jerry Buttimer
- Catherine Byrne
- Eric Byrne
- Ciarán Cannon
- Joe Carey
- Paudie Coffey
- Michael Conaghan
- Marcella Corcoran Kennedy
- Joe Costello
- Michael Creed
- Lucinda Creighton
- John Deasy
- Jimmy Deenihan
- Pat Deering
- Regina Doherty
- Paschal Donohoe
- Robert Dowds
- Andrew Doyle
- Bernard Durkan
- Damien English
- Alan Farrell
- Frances Fitzgerald
- Peter Fitzpatrick
- Charles Flanagan
- Terence Flanagan
- Eamon Gilmore
- Dominic Hannigan
- Noel Harrington
- Simon Harris
- Tom Hayes
- Martin Heydon
- Brendan Howlin
- Heather Humphreys
- Derek Keating
- Paul Kehoe
- Alan Kelly
- Enda Kenny
- Seán Kenny
- Seán Kyne
- Anthony Lawlor
- Ciarán Lynch
- Michael McCarthy
- Tony McLoughlin
- Eamonn Maloney
- Peter Mathews
- Olivia Mitchell
- Mary Mitchell O'Connor
- Michelle Mulherin
- Dara Murphy
- Eoghan Murphy
- Gerald Nash
- Dan Neville
- Derek Nolan
- Michael Noonan
- Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
- Patrick O'Donovan
- John O'Mahony
- Joe O'Reilly
- Jan O'Sullivan
- Willie Penrose
- Ann Phelan
- John Paul Phelan
- Ruairi Quinn
- James Reilly
- Michael Ring
- Brendan Ryan
- Alan Shatter
- Arthur Spring
- Emmet Stagg
- Billy Timmins
- Joanna Tuffy
- Liam Twomey
- Jack Wall
- Alex White
Níl
- Gerry Adams
- Richard Boyd Barrett
- Tommy Broughan
- Dara Calleary
- Joan Collins
- Michael Colreavy
- Barry Cowen
- Seán Crowe
- Clare Daly
- Pearse Doherty
- Stephen Donnelly
- Timmy Dooley
- Luke Flanagan
- Seán Fleming
- Noel Grealish
- John Halligan
- Séamus Healy
- Michael Healy-Rae
- Joe Higgins
- Billy Kelleher
- Michael Kitt
- Michael Lowry
- Pádraig MacLochlainn
- Mary Lou McDonald
- Finian McGrath
- Mattie McGrath
- Michael McGrath
- John McGuinness
- Sandra McLellan
- Micheál Martin
- Michael Moynihan
- Catherine Murphy
- Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
- Éamon Ó Cuív
- Seán Ó Fearghaíl
- Aengus Ó Snodaigh
- Jonathan O'Brien
- Willie O'Dea
- Maureen O'Sullivan
- Thomas Pringle
- Shane Ross
- Róisín Shortall
- Brendan Smith
- Brian Stanley
- Robert Troy
- Mick Wallace
5:25 pm
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. a13, motion re by-election for Meath East, agreed to?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On a point of order-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy resume his seat?
5:30 pm
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I cannot-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Listen.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is very obvious that the Deputy is seeking to be thrown out so I am not going to give him the satisfaction. If he does not resume his seat, I will adjourn the Dáil, this time for 15 minutes. Is the Deputy going to resume his seat?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Government is bringing this House into disrepute in the way it is dealing with this legislation.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume his seat and show some respect for the House.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Hundreds of thousands of families-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Dáil is adjourned for 15 minutes.
5:35 pm
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. a13, motion re by-election for Meath East agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 13, allocation of time motion for select sub-committee on the Finance Bill 2013, No. 14, Finance Bill - Financial Resolutions; No. 15, Finance (Local Property Tax) (Amendment) Bill 2013 - Financial Resolution, and No. 16, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann concerning section 17A the Diseases of Animals Act 1966, without debate, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No 27, Committee and Remaining Stages of the Finance (Local Property Tax) (Amendment) Bill 2013 agreed to?
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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We are not agreeing to this for the same reasons we articulated before.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Taoiseach to reflect on this. We have tabled 34 amendments. Government Deputies voted earlier to stop us from debating the 23 amendments we had put forward. The Taoiseach was on these benches for a very long time and knows how frustrating it is when we go to the trouble of scrutinising the Bill, parsing it and tabling thoughtful amendments but are then denied the chance to discuss them.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Opposition has wasted an hour even though St. Michael's beat Roscrea.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach can carry on with his cynicism but a line must be drawn on his manipulation of the processes in this House and the democratic process. What he is doing is a disgrace.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would the Deputy please speak to the motion?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Government, yet again, is trying to impose a guillotine to foreclose and prevent debate on probably the most important issue this House will deal with this year and maybe in the lifetime of this Government. Hundreds of thousands of families, people who are already struggling, will be driven into an impossible situation as a result of the measure the Government is proposing, and it will not even allow proper debate and scrutiny of that Bill. It is an absolute disgrace. It is the final betrayal of what this Government promised in terms of a democratic revolution and a new way to do politics. It is doing it in the old way but even more cynically and dishonestly than the last Government. Is the Taoiseach going to relent on this dismantling of serious democratic debate in this country and in this House?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is only allowed to make a brief statement. He must resume his seat.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach is making a mockery of this House.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett was offered two extra hours last Friday and he refused to take them.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Come on. The Taoiseach should be serious for a change. This is Committee Stage we are talking about and there are 67 amendments.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He has already wasted a further hour with his ranting here. As the Minister for Education and Skills pointed out, he might be a bit excited because St. Michael's beat Roscrea but now the school faces Blackrock so he should get ready for that. This must go through today, I have already given reasons to the House for that.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is going from the bizarre to the ridiculous. The Taoiseach should not be allowed to answer serious points in this way. He is making a joke out of this House.
Tá
- Joan Burton
- Jerry Buttimer
- Catherine Byrne
- Eric Byrne
- Ciarán Cannon
- Joe Carey
- Paudie Coffey
- Marcella Corcoran Kennedy
- Joe Costello
- Simon Coveney
- Michael Creed
- Lucinda Creighton
- John Deasy
- Jimmy Deenihan
- Pat Deering
- Regina Doherty
- Paschal Donohoe
- Robert Dowds
- Bernard Durkan
- Damien English
- Alan Farrell
- Frances Fitzgerald
- Peter Fitzpatrick
- Eamon Gilmore
- Dominic Hannigan
- Noel Harrington
- Simon Harris
- Martin Heydon
- Brendan Howlin
- Heather Humphreys
- Kevin Humphreys
- Derek Keating
- Paul Kehoe
- Alan Kelly
- Enda Kenny
- Seán Kenny
- Seán Kyne
- Anthony Lawlor
- Ciarán Lynch
- Michael McCarthy
- Tony McLoughlin
- Peter Mathews
- Olivia Mitchell
- Mary Mitchell O'Connor
- Michelle Mulherin
- Dara Murphy
- Eoghan Murphy
- Dan Neville
- Derek Nolan
- Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
- Patrick O'Donovan
- John O'Mahony
- Jan O'Sullivan
- Willie Penrose
- Ann Phelan
- Ruairi Quinn
- James Reilly
- Michael Ring
- Brendan Ryan
- Arthur Spring
- Emmet Stagg
- Billy Timmins
- Joanna Tuffy
- Jack Wall
Níl
- Gerry Adams
- Richard Boyd Barrett
- Joan Collins
- Michael Colreavy
- Seán Crowe
- Clare Daly
- Stephen Donnelly
- Timmy Dooley
- Noel Grealish
- Séamus Healy
- Michael Healy-Rae
- Joe Higgins
- Billy Kelleher
- Michael Kitt
- Michael Lowry
- Mary Lou McDonald
- Finian McGrath
- Mattie McGrath
- John McGuinness
- Sandra McLellan
- Micheál Martin
- Michael Moynihan
- Catherine Murphy
- Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
- Seán Ó Fearghaíl
- Aengus Ó Snodaigh
- Jonathan O'Brien
- Maureen O'Sullivan
- Thomas Pringle
- Shane Ross
- Brian Stanley
- Mick Wallace
5:45 pm
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The fifth and final proposal is-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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-----the proposal for dealing with the Private Members' business. Is that agreed to? Agreed.