Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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There are 14 minutes in the next speaking slot. I call Deputy Seán Kyne.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I am delighted to speak on this important Bill, the main provision of which is the establishment of SOLAS and the dissolution of FÁS, and the transfer of the staff and property of the FÁS training division to the newly formed education and training boards.

The recent Central Statistics Office, CSO, figures are important and indicative that we, as a nation, are on the right path in terms of slowly but surely recovering from the economic collapse which struck us in the past decade. Employment is growing and jobs are being created but, unfortunately, a large number of jobs, particularly in IT, are not being filled.

Being unemployed has serious and far-reaching consequences. Societies throughout the world have developed in such a way that a person's self worth and value can often be bound up with one's job or role in the community. Throughout our history, a hierarchy of importance has been attached to professions. It is unwise and unhealthy to adopt such an approach. Every citizen possesses particular qualities and skills suited to certain areas of work and our everyday lives bear out this fact. Some of our friends, acquaintances and families are studious and are very much at home with theorising and problem-solving while others are much more practical and suited to working with their hands, have a gift working with the people in a leading, caring or managing capacity or have a wondrous grasp of technology, IT programming and so forth. It is the role of the State to recognise this and to support and nurture citizens to reach their potential.

Education and training are essential for this. We must realise we cannot continue with a one size fits all approach and it is out of this realisation that the further education and training sector has grown. A proportion of people will excel in a university setting but for others it is a complete waste of time and resources. Other more practical or skills focused avenues, such as the institutes of technology or the part-time learning environment, are much more beneficial to those individuals.

In my county of Galway, we have an abundance of educational opportunities, from my alma materof NUIG, with its vibrant campus in the city and its nationally important Ollscoil in Connemara, to GMIT with its innovation hub on the Dublin Road and its very important centre in Letterfrack. Third and fourth level education is flourishing in the west but we are also very fortunate to have a thriving further education and training sector with a number of reputable course providers offering a different, but no less valuable, educational experience which is often able to respond more quickly to the needs of citizens at different life stages. The Galway Technical Institute is but one example.

A previous Department of Education and Skills consultation paper noted how our further education and training sector has evolved organically in an unco-ordinated fashion and while it is true that at times a deeper relevancy and effectiveness can emerge organically, it is more often the case that strategic thinking and direction are required, and no more so than when financial resources are constrained.

It is worth looking at a snapshot of the further education and training sector in Ireland. Currently, there is an annual investment of €900 million in FET and this provides for approximately 270,000 full-time or part-time places. It is provided in a large variety of centres and currently 450 centres deliver formal further education and training, including FÁS training centres, VECs and Youthreach centres. Hundreds of large and small centres deliver formal and informal courses to different cohorts of learners and 9,000 staff are employed to deliver these thousands of courses. The courses include technical and vocational training, leading to a specific career, including apprenticeships and post-leaving certificate courses. It also includes courses in basic literacy, numeracy and adult education.

Seirbhísí Oideachais Leanunaigh agus Scileanna will provide this co-ordination and funding. It will, as its Irish acronym suggests, shed a new light on the further education and training sector to ensure it is responsive and flexible and meets the education and training needs of Ireland in the 21st century.

The SOLAS action plan, launched in October 2012, aims to reform radically and restructure the further education and training sector so it can enjoy restored public confidence and promote courses which are relevant to learners, industry and society. The action plan for SOLAS crucially noted that a revitalised FET sector must promote access for all learners who wish to avail of programmes - the unemployed, the employed, school leavers, early school leavers, those with disabilities, job changers and those who want to pursue particular interests through part-time learning.

FÁS was more about providing courses for jobseekers and, to a large extent, it achieved that goal but with varying degrees of success. For example, a web design course run by FÁS in Galway a number of years ago was imparting web design skills using software that was obsolete by approximately ten years. Such was the change between the older of edition of the software and the newer editions, the course was rather pointless, albeit well-intentioned and run by friendly and competent staff. This is one example where an education and training course became out of touch and obsolete and needed to change with the times and the changing technologies.

In all aspects of life, it is vital to recognise when something has outlived its usefulness. FÁS has served us well but it was established in the 1980s to meet the challenges of that particular time and recession. The world has moved on. Technological advancement has transformed both the education sector and the workplace. Much greater flexibility and responsiveness is required if we are to maximise the potential not only of the taxpayers' contribution but also that of our people. The focus of FÁS on jobseekers was suited to an era of its creation. Lifelong learning and constant skills updating were not as appreciated or deemed as necessary as they are now. As many people now realise, it is imperative to keep up to date, to keep one's skills sharp and to engage with and understand the most recent developments in industry. It is a sad reality for all of us that people, as with technology, can become obsolete in terms of the skills they have. To a great extent, further education and training is as vital for those in employment as it is for jobseekers.

Furthermore it is a regrettable fact that the reputation of FÁS has been tarnished in recent years with unusual or irregular practices, in particular concerning expenses. Confidence in any State agency or Department is paramount. FÁS has experienced a decline in the confidence people once had in it, which is regrettable but factual.

I am heartened to see that SOLAS will be underpinned by four key principles, specifically that the organisation will be learner-centred, outcome based, strategically focused and integrated. These aims are clearly rooted in common sense and will maximise the effectiveness of public funding while ensuring the learner is placed at the heart of the State's further education and training policy.

From this Bill, it is evident that SOLAS will be bestowed with a wider responsibility. One of its chief functions will be the creation and implementation every three years of a national strategy which will ultimately benefit the FET sector, citizens, the taxpayer and the course providers. In preparing these three year strategies, huge priority is being attached to co-operation and consultation with the other stakeholders, most notably the Departments of Social Protection, Education and Skills and Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Enterprise Ireland, Teagasc and employer groups. Co-operation and collaboration with agencies such as Teagasc is crucial if we are to continue to benefit from the opportunities which exist in our most successful indigenous industry, namely, farming and agribusiness. In the past few years, Teagasc has experienced a substantial increase in the demand for its courses. Co-operation and collaboration with SOLAS is essential to ensure we can meet this growing demand and so harness the opportunities presented. A requirement for consultation with the various stakeholders will also guarantee relevancy is the top criterion in deciding the type of education and training courses to be funded from the public purse.

Importantly, SOLAS will have an oversight function and will monitor the quality and effectiveness of course providers and the educational courses. The Bill contains further provisions concerning board membership, corporate governance, accountability and whistleblowing which will rightly ensure SOLAS observes the highest organisational standards.

For almost 30 years, we have heard constant talk about the need for a one-stop-shop, to use the well worn phrase, for unemployed persons. Throughout the late 1980s and 1990s, this was touted at the best way forward in meeting the needs of jobseekers. This Government has moved beyond talk and is taking action. Today central locations with all the supports a jobseeker requires are being rolled out with the new Intreo service in the Department of Social Protection and this Further Education and Training Bill complements this and is part of a suite of legislative reforms which will include reform and revitalisation of the VEC structure into new streamlined education and training boards as well as a renewed emphasis on quality. We need to ensure all systems, supports and procedures are in place to facilitate getting people back to work.

Recently, I received a telephone call from a constituent about the back to work allowance. The individual had an idea to set up a company but their biggest fear was that they would not be entitled to social welfare supports should the company fail. That is a real and understandable concern which could put a person off setting up a small business. We need to ensure a system which encourages people to take up options, retraining or placements etc. I am confident this Bill along with other important reforms will ensure jobseekers can avail of the advice and support they need on education and training options ultimately to rejoin the workforce and realise their potential. I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, and the Minister, Deputy Quinn, on their work on this very important Bill.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I thank the Technical Group for allocating some of its speaking time to me. I acknowledge the presence of the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon. We were very glad when he visited County Kerry a number of months ago to attend the launch of an informative and comprehensive booklet outlining the various courses and further educational opportunities that are available for people who find themselves in need of upskilling and further training.

In the world as it is today education is no longer confined to a specified period of a person's life. Everybody is obliged to follow a lifelong training curve. The Minister said as much in his speech in Kerry that day. He correctly pointed out that everything has changed completely since a number of years ago, when people went to national school, then secondary school and, if they were fortunate, on to university, and that was it. Now, however, people must continuously upskill. There are no jobs for life anymore. It is a very fortunate person who would find themselves leaving college, getting a job and retiring from that job after 30 or 35 years. Unfortunately, those jobs are no longer available.

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on this Bill. One could say that SOLAS, the body being established by the Bill, is FÁS by another name. I hope it will be beneficial. Another change is the 16 education boards which will replace the 34 vocational education committees, VECs. The VEC structure served this country very well over the years. I had the utmost respect for the individuals, be they teachers, principals, vice-principals, politicians and county councillors, who served on those VECs and did great work. Indeed, I remember many of the politicians in Kerry who worked on the committees. They did great work and were proud of that work. They were also proud of their role and function in the VECs.

When discussing SOLAS and FÁS it should be recognised that FÁS did a great deal of good work. Unfortunately, its good work was sullied by the actions of a few. However, we should not throw the baby out with the bath water and paint everybody in FÁS with the same brush. I encountered great individuals who worked at all levels of FÁS. When I consider the group schemes set up throughout the country by FÁS, which provided thousands of days of work and training, and the very valuable function FÁS performed, I hate to think that people would consider that FÁS was all bad. That was not the case, and the Minister and the Government know it. A small number of people gave it a bad name.

When discussing the establishment of a new entity such as SOLAS we should bear in mind that some decisions taken by this Government have not worked out. One example is the centralised system for awarding third level education grants, Student Universal Support Ireland or SUSI, which was an absolute disaster. It is a disaster to this day. It is almost March but even this morning I was still dealing with students who have not received their grants. That is totally unacceptable and wrong. Many of the young people affected wanted to pull out of their courses and I had an awful job persuading them to stay. Thankfully, some of the colleges worked with us. They knew the money would be paid and that the applications would be processed in due course. However, it is not acceptable, right or proper that it is almost March and people are still waiting for education grants. Every Member of the Oireachtas and county councillor has been inundated with representations from people who are in this difficulty.

The same has happened with the centralisation of driving licences. That was introduced a few weeks ago and it is already chaos with people unable to get their driving licences processed. We had the same experience with the processing of medical cards. Unfortunately, the Government's track record with centralisation and change has not been good to date. However, that does not prevent me stating that I wish this legislation well. I hope it will work.

Over the years I, like many other Members of the House, have had the pleasure and privilege of attending Further Education and Training Awards Council, FETAC, award ceremonies. The individuals receiving their awards were generally accompanied by members of their family and extended family. It could be their parents or their children. It was always a proud and happy occasion to see these people having their educational and training efforts recognised and rewarded. I always enjoyed getting an invitation to those events because I knew it would be a happy and joyous occasion. I hope that will continue.

As every person knows, particularly if they have a family, no two children or people are the same. Everybody has their own special skills set and abilities. If one is dealing with somebody who has an intellectual disability, for example, they might have some other great abilities and a fully able person might be unable to keep up with them. I have always seen that in life. If a person is lacking something in one way, they more than make up for it in another. When it comes to education and training we are duty bound to ensure that systems will be put in place to nurture each young person being educated and to make the most of their abilities. I never look at a person and wonder what is holding them back, I always look at the good points that will help them move forward. Thankfully, there is a role and function for everybody in the world.

I am very proud that under this Government and previous Governments the way was opened for people with disabilities to secure gainful employment. Indeed, in some large companies and in local authorities there is a standard quota whereby they must try to employ a certain number of people who have disabilities. Wherever one meets people with disabilities who are working, one finds they perform their functions in an excellent manner. They bring their own special skills set to the job. It is only right and proper that they be given every possible opportunity.

I am very proud of the Institute of Technology Tralee. It is a vital facility in our county and I hope it goes from success to success. Not only does it fulfil a role in education, it is also an important financial asset for the county. I hope it will continue to grow.

Thanks to solid investment over the years and to our teachers in the national and secondary schools and in the colleges the standard of education is increasing all the time. Our young people deserve that.

When people are starting out we must ensure that they have the best education and training possible, whether they are intending to work here or go abroad.

I am concerned to ensure that in the context of training we engage with employers. I have listened to the Minister of State, Deputy Ciarán Cannon, speak in public since his appointment and he has touched on this issue many times. We must ask what skills employers here need people to have. We have no business training people to be something for which there is no demand. It is important to consider our small employers and to ask what they need from the workforce and what training they want people to have. The Department and SOLAS will have to work together to ensure we establish that connectivity between employers, who will create more employment, and the workforce, who want to obtain gainful employment and to be trained in the proper skills to be of value to an employer. It is working together as a team that enables everyone to be successful. An employee will have a good job to keep him and his family, or her and her family, and the employer will be able to get the most out of the workforce. Not so many years ago, all a person needed to do was to go to secondary school and do the group certificate - as it was then - before going to AnCo for a couple of years to be trained as a fitter or in another trade. Those people went on to work in State bodies. There were plenty of jobs for young people with a minimal education at one stage, but now things are completely different. No person can have enough education now. Further training and skills are of vital importance to the young people who have had to go abroad. I hope many of them will be able to return when our economy is on the rise. I hope they left here with sufficient training and skills to find gainful work internationally. The world is a small place now and we hope they will come back.

When we consider the future direction of our training sector, we must consider the core industries of agriculture and tourism. Given the size of the world population, there is a massive market for good-quality food, which is one thing we have in Ireland. The horsemeat scandal has done nothing to dent our reputation; it has proved that we have the necessary checks, measures and accountability in place, as demonstrated by the fact that it was here the problem was first discovered. It went on to become a Europe-wide and worldwide problem. We can be proud that it was the checks put in place here by the relevant Departments and State agencies that ensured the problem was detected.

In the context of farming and the agrifood sector, we must consider the agricultural colleges and the excellent work they do to train young farmers. It saddened me during the boom that many agricultural colleges faced closure as so few young farmers wanted to be trained in a sector in which they saw no future. Thankfully, the colleges are now operating at 100% capacity and cannot cater for the number of students who want to attend them. It proves that there are young people who want to stay in Ireland, take over family farms and obtain the required education, skills and qualifications to allow them to be successful, forward-thinking farmers. Like every other sector, farming has changed enormously over the last number of years. A great degree of expertise is now required of farmers in animal husbandry, tillage and dairying. Things are completely different from the way they were ten or 20 years ago. I hope future investments will be made in the training of our young farmers, ensuring that they are able to fulfil the massive potential of the sector and the demand for good-quality food and food products internationally. Irish farming has an excellent reputation. It is a sector we can enhance and expand manyfold in the years ahead.

It is vital that every opportunity be taken to ensure that young people are trained to work in every aspect of the tourism sector. There is great potential for further growth in tourism. Recent visitor figures indicate there has been significant growth in the numbers coming to Ireland, particularly from North America, whose previously high visitor numbers had dwindled in recent years. I hope to see growth in the sector again. We must ensure that when people come to Ireland, there are people working in the sector. I have the utmost respect for people working in tourism, whether it is front-line staff who meet tourists when they arrive at hotels or those working in kitchens to do the washing up. Every person plays a vital role in a very important sector. We will rely on tourism, along with farming, to help us in the years ahead.

Funding must go in the right direction. We must ensure there is no waste. While I do not think the Minister will allow that to happen, I must take the opportunity to discuss the Government's track record. When it came into office, a great deal of play was made about appointments to State boards. Unfortunately, it was recently proven by journalists who did their homework that the only qualification one has needed in the last two years to get on a State board was membership of either Fine Gael or the Labour Party.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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What about your own one?

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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If one does not have that qualifying criterion, one does not get an appointment.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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How is the Citizens' Information Board doing?

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I can answer the Deputy if he wants but I will answer through the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I had to be removed from a board on which I was working very well because I was not a member of Fine Gael or the Labour Party. I had to be replaced by people the Minister hand-picked.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is not true.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Therefore, Deputy Simon Harris should not come to the Chamber to make an insinuation or slur on my character.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I did not.

John Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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It is vindictive.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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My record was excellent. The Deputy can be sure that the behaviour of some of his Ministers has been a disgrace. I could start naming them here but I will not.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Name them.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I would not do that myself. Deputy Harris has drawn this on himself. If he wants me to go down the road of talking about his Government's appointments to State boards-----

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I would be delighted.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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They are a sham. If Deputy Harris tries to defend that, he will have gone down in my estimation big time in the last couple of minutes.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am terribly upset.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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If he tries to stand over that, he is standing over the indefensible.

I wish SOLAS well and hope that in the years ahead the people who require skills improvement and training will get it and that it will be successful.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Further Education and Training Bill 2013 provides for the establishment of an education and training authority, known as SOLAS, which will co-ordinate and fund further education and training provision in Ireland. The Bill also provides for the dissolution of FÁS and the transfer of its staff and property to SOLAS. The Bill is part of a wider process of institutional reform of the further education and training sector in Ireland.

SOLAS will be responsible for co-ordinating and funding the further education and training sector. The Bill assigns a broad range of functions to SOLAS, including strategic policy direction, programme development, funding, oversight and co-ordination of the sector. Some key functions of SOLAS are to advance funding to providers of further education and training; to determine, following consultation, what types of education and training programme should be funded and delivered; to establish systems to monitor the quality of further education and training programmes; to prepare and submit a five-year national strategy for the provision of further education and training; and to conduct research on matters relating to these functions. Unlike FÁS, SOLAS will not deliver programmes itself.

It is expected that, following the establishment of SOLAS and the enactment of the Education and Training Boards Bill 2012, existing FÁS training centres under the remit of the 16 ETBs, which will replace the current VECs and manage the delivery of publicly funded further education and training. The Bill is one part of a wider process of institutional restructuring of the Irish further education and training sector which aims to radically reform the system so that it can enjoy restored public confidence and provide courses that are relevant to learners.

A number of steps towards major structural reform of the further education and training sector have already been taken. In July 2011, the Government decided to integrate the delivery of further education and training under 16 ETBs, a process that involved amalgamating and rationalising 33 VECs. This is provided for in the Education and Training Boards Bill 2012.

Currently there is an annual investment of some €900 million in further education and training. This provides for around 270,000 places in part-time or full-time further education and training courses, provided in a large variety of centres. Currently there are some 450 centres delivering formal further education and training, including FÁS training centres, VECs and Youthreach centres. Hundreds of large and small centres are delivering formal and informal courses in atypical modes to different cohorts of learners. There are some 9,000 staff employed in the sector delivering thousands of courses. These courses include technical and vocational training leading to a specific career, apprenticeships and post-leaving-certificate courses, as well as basic literacy, numeracy and adult education.

SOLAS will consult with the Department of Social Protection and employers to determine what types of courses and training programmes it should fund, with such courses and programmes to be delivered by public and other bodies. It will also promote, encourage and facilitate the placement of persons who are in receipt of jobseeker's allowance or benefit in further education and training programmes that are funded in whole or in part out of public money, in consultation with the Minister for Social Protection.

The board of SOLAS will comprise ten ordinary members, including the CEO, who is an ex-officio member, and one chairperson. The Minister will appoint a chairperson and nine ordinary members who, in the opinion of the Minister, have expertise and experience in matters connected with the SOLAS functions and matters connected with finance, trade, commerce, corporate governance or public administration.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Further Education and Training Bill. This Bill is yet another step in the Government's reform agenda. We have found ourselves in a situation in which many areas of society and Departments are in need of reform.

The Bill takes a dramatic step forward in streamlining and updating the structures around further education and training. It is clear that the needs of the people have changed dramatically in this area in recent years. It is only right and proper that the structures change to meet these needs. There is a new cohort out of work, people who never envisaged they would find themselves in such a position. They want to get back to work; not working is an alien concept to them. The structures in place to support them in education and training must allow a training place to translate into a job interview and a job interview into a job.

In establishing SOLAS, Seirbhísí Oideachais Leanunaigh agus Scileanna, we are undertaking to build a more efficient, effective and better focused structure that will ensure the maximum amount possible from a budget of almost €1 billion will reach those who need it and be freed from bureaucracy. Despite the blather of other Members, it is important to remember the amount given by the Government in extra resources and places in further education and training in every constituency.

Structural reform is important and what the Bill does in this regard is welcome. However, I want to highlight two other important points on further education and training. The first concerns making people aware of the supports available in this area. I am constantly shocked by the number of people who attend my constituency clinics who are not linked with services and have no direct link with a course or training. While there is so much on offer, the actual awareness levels are low. I know the Department of Social Protection has taken a leadership role in that regard, but we need to examine the use of social media and national road shows to explain what is available in further education and training.

The second issue we need to address is the perception of what further education and training are and the supports on offer. There has been, sadly, a negative, if not snobby, attitude to what further education entails. Recently, as a member of the Oireachtas education committee, I met several Australian Senators visiting Ireland. In Australia they have this viewpoint that not everyone needs to have a third level education, but everybody needs to be trained in some expertise or skill. College and university will not be for everybody and there is no hierarchical need. Their system has been very much set up to reflect this. Whatever a person's skills set is, the state must support him or her. That is a worthy and important lesson we can learn from our Australian colleagues.

On Tuesday I saw a similar model which addressed these two issues at the Bray offices of the Department of Social Protection. It had linked in with a range of voluntary and statutory organisations such as FÁS, the MABS and the National Adult Literacy Agency, to put on an exhibition of what was on offer in further education and training. It was heartening to see the range of supports available and the number of voluntary organisations chipping in with the role they were playing. It was also great for someone to avail of the services of a one-stop shop. Great credit must go to the Bray offices of the Department for arranging this event.

The Bill dismantles the structures of FÁS. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae has pointed out that FÁS has done much good work, with which I agree. There are many in my constituency who work for FÁS and continue to provide a great range of services. Just like matters went wrong in the banks and politics, they went badly wrong in FÁS in terms of corporate governance. However, many of those working on the ground in various FÁS offices and training centres have done a very good job. I acknowledge this and have no doubt many of them will continue to make contributions in the new structures.

Yesterday we had very encouraging news on the jobs front for the first time when we saw employment trends move the right way. Unfortunately, there is a significant challenge when it comes to youth unemployment. It is appropriate that we are debating the Bill on the day the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, and the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, are meeting EU employment Ministers in Dublin. We need to make further education and night classes attractive. They cannot be seen as something someone's mother goes along to in the evening. These are programmes that someone in their 20s should be finding attractive.

We need to involve industry in further education and training, an issue in which I know the Minister of State, Deputy Ciarán Cannon, is involved. There is no point in having people taking flower arranging or basket making courses if industry's needs are different. It is about matching the needs of industry with the courses on offer. There are many high-end courses available, but we need to constantly ask what skills sets it needs. It comes back to my point that at the end training has to equate to a job.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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The Further Education and Training Bill 2013 provides for the dismantling of FÁS and the creation of SOLAS which will be fundamentally different from FÁS, a semi-State body in which the public have lost confidence. SOLAS aims to radically reform and restructure the further education and training system in order that it can enjoy restored public confidence and provide relevant courses for learners.

What happened with overspending in FÁS was scandalous. Corporate governance was at an all-time low. The mismanagement - the non-management - was galling. First-class flights, expensive dinners, luxurious hotels were all paid for courtesy of the taxpayer. This was scandalous, disgraceful and must never happen again. Thankfully, such days are at an end. The Government will never allow mistakes like this to be made again. Accordingly, I am assured to see provisions in the Bill relating to whistleblowing. Sections 34 to 36, inclusive, provide for whistleblowing in cases where a person communicates the view that an offence has been or is being committed.

SOLAS will provide for a targeted learner-centred approach. It is important that we provide courses relevant to the current jobs market. Since the downturn, the jobs market has changed dramatically and continues to develop and transform. Today in the media there is mention of an increase in job creation, but I also note these are high-end jobs. The courses provided by SOLAS need to adapt to mirror changes in the jobs market. Those seeking training courses should receive the very best available that will equip them with skills which will assist them to find suitable jobs and careers. Continual research needs to be conducted to ensure the courses provided are ahead of the curve, that obsolete courses are ended and students' time is not wasted. Courses provided must also reflect the advances in technology and industries as they arise. They need to be more practical and serve the needs of jobseekers and employers. They need to be dictated by the needs of jobseekers and employers, not by the skills of course providers, as well as being dictated by skills shortages, not by the knowledge base of course providers.

These will be the objectives of SOLAS which I will be watching with interest to ensure they are met. I commend the Bill to the House.

John Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Fianna Fáil supports the Further Education and Training Bill 2013 that will formally change the name of FÁS to SOLAS. We welcome the extended role it will play in providing for oversight of and direction for the further education and training sector. We are all familiar with FÁS from its offices in our constituencies. Despite the justified criticism of the agency at its top level, I always found local FÁS offices, particularly in Enniscorthy, County Wexford, provided excellent services and were supportive in meeting the needs of the unemployed. They were also supportive of business and people with ideas on how courses should be set up and run. I hope many of the agency's workers who have expertise in these areas will transfer to SOLAS and keep on providing valuable knowledge on how courses should be provided in the future.

It is important to recognise that courses which may have been relevant in the past are no longer relevant for job opportunities at present.

I note that the SOLAS board will consist of 11 members with relevant expertise to be appointed by the Minister for Education and Skills after consultation with the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the Minister for Social Protection. Will the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, explain what kind of people will be involved and how the Minister proposes to select people for the board? Will those appointed be ministerial supporters or people from IBEC and successful industries with a wide variety of experience? Will they simply be political appointees? It is important that the board has the relevant expertise required to drive SOLAS in future.

The model is right but the implementation of the model concerns me. Will the Minister of State outline when the education and training boards, ETBs, will be set up? How many, if any, have been set up to date? If none, how will all of them be set up by the end of 2014? Are we waiting until after the 2014 local elections to see the make up of the new ETBs? I cannot see how all the ETBs will be set up by the end of 2014. There should be an urgency about this matter. Will the Minister of State outline what dialogue has taken place between the VECs and the Department in recent months and what will take place in the coming months? The boards of County Wexford and City of Waterford VECs are to amalgamate. I understand one meeting was held last week among representatives and members of the two boards. However, there has been little urgency about the amalgamation of the two and I imagine the position is the same in the other counties.

There will be 16 ETBs with 16 chief executives. This morning I calculated that there are eight counties in the south east and south Leinster, including Waterford and Wexford. There will be five chief executives running that area. One wonders whether we need 16 chief executives. Do we need five chief executives in the south east to run the SOLAS campaign? The Acting Chairman will be aware that some multinational companies employ 40,000 people but have only one chief executive. Is it the case that much of the money will be gobbled up by the chief executives and their entourages and staff rather than providing for people who need services, training and re-skilling?

Are the VECs resisting or embracing the changes the Minister envisages with the amalgamations? Another issue is that FÁS operated all year round and the staff were available at different times of the day. Often up to now FÁS staff have been available at night time. Will the new boards and ETBs be flexible or will they be like VECs at the moment, which close down at 4.30 p.m. or 5 p.m. in the evening until 9.30 a.m. the following morning? These areas need to be teased out by the Minister. There should be flexibility and people should be available to run courses, advise on courses and meet communities and business people who may wish to set up courses. Trainers should be available at night time because often business people and others may not be available during the day. We need flexibility in the system.

What opportunities will be available? While FÁS did a very good job with the courses that were relevant ten or 15 years ago, especially in my county, where the building industry was a hive of activity, this is no longer the case. Vast numbers of people are unemployed now who once worked in the building industry and who had left school at a young age because the money was good. Such people find now that they have a lack of education and skills and it is important that under the new set-up SOLAS recognises this and encourages people to get back to education. The new agency should consider providing courses for job opportunities that are likely to be available.

Job opportunities in my area are likely to be in the fishing and farming industries, wind energy, which is on the move, information technology and tourism. Recently I learned that people who worked in wind energy area had to be sent to England to be trained for work permits and relevant skills to allow them work with wind turbines that have been erected. These people were not allowed to work in the area unless they held something like the FÁS safe pass qualification, but they had to go to England to get the qualification and that should not be happening. These areas should be examined. We should consider such areas in consultation with the providers and design courses that are relevant to industries in a given area.

Some Deputies have referred to the agricultural colleges. There are excellent agricultural colleges throughout the country include one in Pilltown, Kilkenny and others in Cork and other parts of the country. However, we should bring the agricultural courses to the students. I hope the new ETBs will provide agricultural courses in County Wexford or County Kilkenny or wherever. Students should not have to leave their county and go to Cork or other areas. The agricultural courses required to enable farmers to farm and draw down grants should be provided in the schools or colleges under the ETBs. This matter should be examined as well.

Post leaving certificate, PLC, courses have been particularly successful. Enniscorthy Vocational College is the centre of excellence for PLC courses in Wexford. Last year there were 450 applications but only funding for 300. This meant 150 people could not get on a PLC course. Those refused a place went back on jobseeker's allowance and were getting €100 per week or €5,000 per year for doing nothing. Rather than being paid €5,000 per year for sitting at home, there should be a system whereby we can increase the number of PLC courses at that school. I imagine other schools throughout the country are in the same position. These schools have the facilities to provide the PLC courses. Obviously, they would need extra teachers, but would it not be better to pay extra teachers to provide courses rather than pay €5,000 to students to sit at home? These students want further education and want to better themselves. Like many of the people I referred to earlier, they were in the building industry and left school at 16 or 17 years of age. They are seeking re-education and to re-enter the education system now.

I wish to make one final point and I will finish on this note.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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You may wish to extend it. You have some further time if you wish.

John Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Many of the students who went on Enniscorthy PLC courses in the past five years have gone to UCD, Trinity College and Waterford Institute of Technology and they have become excellent students. Many have qualified as air hostesses, because there are courses in that area, and have taken up other job opportunities.

I welcome the fact that SOLAS is in this new position. I hope the new organisation will embrace what is needed in the country at present especially given the high level of youth unemployment. I trust the new boards will reflect the relevant expertise that is required. More important, the VECs need to come on board and buy into the system. The ETBs will be providing the service in future and it is important that they reflect the relevant job opportunities in each constituency and county.

I welcome the Bill, which represents a step in the right direction, but a good deal of work remains to be done between now and the end of 2014. The Minister referred to setting up the ETBs. There should be a speeding up of the process. There is an urgent need to establish some of the ETBs before the end of 2014. Perhaps there should be some pilot systems in operation before then to determine how they are working. Having discussed the matter with members of County Wexford VEC and the City of Waterford VEC, I have detected little urgency at present in bringing them together and ensuring they are ready for change and ready to embrace change.

They have yet to iron out all the union and flexibility problems that may arise, including longer working hours and flexible work practices. I am sure the Minister of State is capable of dealing with these issues to ensure SOLAS is a success.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important Bill. One of the main objectives for this Government is to get people back to work. There are thousands of people who need to get back to work but do not believe they have the necessary qualifications. Education is the great equaliser.

The Further Education and Training Bill 2013 provides for the establishment of an education and training authority, SOLAS, and the dissolution of its predecessor, FÁS. SOLAS will co-ordinate and fund further education and training throughout the country. The aims of SOLAS are complex and meeting them will be challenging. It will prepare and submit a five-year strategy for the provision of further education and training to determine what type of funding should be delivered to these programmes. It will also assess whether funded bodies have been performing their functions in an efficient and effective manner and establish systems to monitor these bodies. The concept of fit for purpose is critical in a training authority.

Among the new aims of SOLAS is the replacement of 33 vocational education committees with 16 new education and training boards, ETBs. FÁS will be disbanded and the existing centres will be transferred to the responsibility of these new ETBs. This Bill is part of a wider process of restructuring the Irish further education and training sector with the aim of radically reforming further education systems so that they can once more enjoy the full confidence and support of the public. The lavish waste that occurred in FÁS shattered public confidence in that state agency. Hundreds and thousands of euro were wasted while people on the ground were told there was no money for courses that would eventually get people back to work. The fact that the waste continued for so long unnoticed and unchecked was a stark reality that hit hard. How could a State agency specifically charged with getting people back to work and off the dole be so irresponsible in wasting public funds? However, it would be remiss of me not to state that the ordinary staff in FÁS carried out their duties in an exemplary manner. Estimates abound that FÁS was spending millions of euro at a time when this country was enjoying a boom and many more people were in full employment than is the case today. Fianna Fáil was in Government while this was happening but not only did it miss the reality of what was going on, it was also slow in reacting when it became aware of it. This is why SOLAS has to work. Its establishment is a positive step but new safeguards must be put in place so that history is not repeated.

More people are in need of help in this country than ever before. The demands of the current employment market are ever-changing and further education bodies will need to react rapidly to these trends. Ireland needs to be able to tell the international labour market we have a labour force that can react swiftly to market changes, especially in the information technology sector. An ongoing evaluation and assessment system should built into the new board, with the needs of the employment market matched with the training provided so that the right talents and skill sets are made available. If we can confront the ghosts of the past now we can avoid repeating mistakes, but if we do not get it right now we will regret another wasted opportunity. This Bill presents a great opportunity to get the people of Ireland back to work and restore their self-respect. There is a shortage of suitably qualified workers in certain areas, such as technology. When people have been out of work for some time they can feel they are no use to society and SOLAS will need to guide them along the most appropriate paths while valuing what they have to offer.

However, the second and third level education system faces wider challenges than those who are out of work or in need of skills improvement. The curriculum must be able to change quickly. For several years there has been a decline in the number of people studying science subjects at second and third level, which has led to shortages of technical and scientific expertise. Languages are also a cause for concern. FÁS notably failed in this regard. We need to be able to offer prospective jobseekers the possibility of learning another language. As a result of the digital era, the entire labour force has changed and business has become global. These are the market shifts we need to be aware of and react to if the world's leading firms are to continue to beat a path to our door. Ireland has enjoyed the highest of international reputations for our educated workforce, but we need to maintain its quality. Although it is a shame that Irish people have to emigrate, they are able to find high-quality employment wherever they go and they are treated extremely well. Of course, our international reputation should not be our sole concern. We must also look after the people who through no fault of their own have lost their jobs and are now looking for employment in a depressed global economy. It is soul-destroying to send application after application only to be told that one is not wanted.

We continue to see the green shoots of recovery and thanks to the work of this Government, the IDA and other bodies, jobs are being created on a daily basis. However, we do not have a one-size-fits-all solution. As the Minister for Education and Skills has noted, it is more important than ever before that the sector is fit for everyone's purpose. While I was a councillor in Kilkenny County Council I conducted a study of the number of jobs lost in Ireland and found that 50 jobs had been lost every week since 2002. This decline began in the high technology sector with the loss of 50 jobs in Spectra in Tralee. The only person who raised this issue in the House was the Minister, Deputy Quinn. I commend the Bill to the House. I have great hope for SOLAS and the education and training boards.

Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Further Education and Training Bill 2013, which comes before the House at a time of severe fiscal and economic adjustment. This adjustment is further complicated by a process of major restructuring in the labour market, particularly in respect of employment opportunities. This seismic shift has resulted in mass unemployment in almost every EU country and has given rise to a range of issues relating to socioeconomic policy, employment and work opportunities and labour-market-oriented training. This Bill is part of a systematic effort to implement unprecedented reforms which are intended to streamline and improve the further education sector in Ireland. This Second Stage debate takes place in the same week that the Oireachtas finalised the Education and Training Boards Bill 2012.

This Bill provides the basis for the new local education and training board system. The Bills are complementary, with the Further Education and Training Bill designed to assign a broad range of functions to the newly established education and training authority, SOLAS, which will be responsible for co-ordinating and funding further education and training. The Bill has been described as one element of a wider programme of institutional reform of the further education and training sector and is part of a joined-up approach that involves three separate pieces of primary legislation, as well as the establishment of a range of bodies that are part of a radical process of rationalisation and amalgamation.

The enactment of the Bill is happening at a time when a significant number of citizens have been laid low by an unprecedented economic meltdown that can only be reversed in part by stimulating job creation and enhanced employment opportunities. The Further Education and Training Bill is part of a broader strategy that links a number of initiatives being implemented to meet the increased demand for education and training that has resulted from rising unemployment. Its importance in overseeing funding and driving forward policy across the further education sector cannot be overstated.

The establishment of SOLAS under the Further Education and Training Bill will, I hope, bring closure to one of the worst scandals arising from the workings of a State body since the formation of the State. The scandalous misuse of funds and expenditure in FÁS, dating back to 2004, was common within the higher echelons of FÁS, when spending controls were routinely bypassed and there was a serious failure to implement good corporate governance procedures. In some of the most appalling examples of unaccountability, incompetence and wastage, characteristic of some of the worst excesses of the so-called Celtic tiger era, the activities of certain senior personal within FÁS greatly undermined the capacity of that organisation to discharge its duties at a time when labour activation measures through training and learning were badly needed. Their actions discredited an organisation that had done much good work in helping to generate employment since its inception in the 1980s. During that period the organisation was spending almost €1 billion of taxpayers' money annually, even at a time of full employment. It was a time of decadence and wastage and in 2011, when reviewing the extent of the scandal that had become fully apparent in 2008, the director of employment with the OECD labelled what had happened "a national disaster". In the same year the ESRI found that FÁS-provided activation interviews for unemployed persons had a negative impact on their prospects, leading to a 17% lower chance of securing employment than for those who did not undergo an activation interview.

It is against this dark legacy and culture of recklessness and irresponsibility that SOLAS is tasked with funding the delivery of services from the 16 new education and training boards. The establishment of SOLAS is part of a reform agenda designed to revitalise the further education sector and enhance the State's labour market activism strategy. There is a large and diverse further education sector, with a wide range of providers and courses that have been described as unwieldy and inefficient, not least because they have evolved in an unplanned and relatively unstructured fashion over many decades.

Together, VECs and FÁS deliver over 70% of FETAC awards annually, but, unlike most other OECD countries, further education and training in Ireland have grown in an organic and unco-ordinated way and are delivered by numerous organisations and providers. It is, therefore, highly unlikely that taxpayers have been getting value for money under the current arrangements and one of the most pressing issues that must be addressed in the time ahead is the duplication of courses at a regional level, both within the PLC sector and the parallel FÁS training system. Equally important is the capacity of teaching staff within further education and FÁS training services to deliver the standards required by high tech industries.

Crucially, we need to address the crisis we face within the Iemployment sector that, in part, stems from a lack of suitably qualified workers in key areas such as technology and the service industry. The importance of ICT, foreign language skills and expertise in business, engineering and technology requires very specialised courses that can only be delivered by motivated staff who are experts in their respective fields. This can only be achieved through adequate investment throughout the education system, where preparation to meet ever-evolving and diverse employability criteria is dependent on the standard of education delivered from preschool onwards. One of the first challenges to be faced is how to fully integrate FÁS with the further education sector, where the terms and conditions of employment vary greatly. Put simply, at a time when we need to develop a more efficient and effective system, we cannot afford a further education and training service that is closed down for half the year. For too long, we have had a dysfunctional training system that has contributed greatly to a disastrous waste of potential talent in people who, if provided with the proper assistance, could play an integral part in helping to kick-start our economic revival.

In order to enhance the delivery of further education and training, we need to establish a more integrated and coherent system that can meet the future needs of the labour market. AONTAS has proposed that the starting point for this reform be the development of an integrated quality service that is able to cater for a wide range of learning needs for the labour market. This should include a capacity to deliver a diverse range of skill sets that include personal, social, cultural and civic development. In its submission in response to the Bill AONTAS has also expressed the view that the definition of what is meant by further education, as proposed in the legislation, is extremely narrow and fails to reflect the complexity and scope of what we mean by training and learning. There are also concerns that the functions of SOLAS have been limited by the narrowness of their scope, which, while identifying employers as key stakeholders, has neglected to engage in a meaningful way with providers of further education and training and adult learners.

Current labour market programmes are limited in the way they cater for people with literacy and numeracy needs. All too often, they fail to address the needs of the long-term unemployed. We need to acknowledge this and the fact that when people with literacy and numeracy difficulties participate, the relative benefits when compared to other groups are much greater. Adequate funding is also needed to advance the capacity of further education and training providers to deliver the learning programmes that reflect the complex demands of the labour market. In addition to these aims, we need robust systems in place to monitor the quality and outcomes to ensure the qualitative delivery of programmes that are fit for purpose. All of this must be underpinned by an ethos that seeks to promote and appreciate the value of further education and training. There is much merit in the proposal to develop a learner charter that would be adopted by all further education and training providers.

Section 9 outlines how SOLAS will consult and prepare the further education and training strategy which will inform and shape the delivery of services. To be creditable, this strategy must be carried out after close consultation with providers and adult learners, where there is a creditable learner-centred theme that reflects the diversity of learners. In other words, the diverse perspectives and interests within the further education and training sector must be represented on the board of SOLAS. NGOs such as AONTAS and NALA are well placed to fulfil this role. This is essential if we are serious about addressing the appalling rates of literacy and numeracy.

As we attempt to see a new further education and training system emerge, we need a strategic and co-ordinated response to address this problem. SOLAS should be required, therefore, to consult adult learners in the development of the further education and training strategy. Sinn Féin supports the proposals brought forward by NALA that there be a dedicated adult learner perspective on the board of SOLAS. This would ensure learners had a voice and an input into the decision on the governance of SOLAS and the development of further education and training policies which would improve the quality and effectiveness of education authorities.

There is little doubt that in order to improve and develop the further education sector, a holistic approach is needed, with the type of joined-up strategy that links the primary and post-primary school curriculums, when preparing young people for adulthood. Of paramount importance is the promotion of equality of opportunity for all social groups to ensure the optimum impact of further education and training that has a key role to play in tackling social disadvantage.

Therefore, our priority must be to assist those who most need help. Unfortunately, they are often the least likely to receive assistance. The educational needs and requirements of adult learners are very complex. Many adult learners had negative early experiences with the education system. Teachers, instructors and administrators must make a serious effort to address this issue. It is imperative that innovative and creative course offerings are made available to prospective students. Courses should be well structured and thought out, and should be designed in a way that incorporates a process of active learning. This is of vital importance in any further education strategy.

While I acknowledge that thousands of adults have benefited from PLC courses, I wonder why the Government showed such a lack of foresight when it decided to increase the pupil-teacher ratio in the further education sector from 17:1 to 19:1. People who return to further education, particularly the long-term unemployed and the poor, often need extra attention in areas such as literacy and numeracy. The increase in the pupil-teacher ratio flies in the face of the need to assist such people. It will put serious pressure on the learning outcomes achieved by the students of even the most committed teachers. It goes without saying that such cuts pose yet another educational challenge, even for the most dedicated adult learners.

If we are genuinely interested in assisting people to increase their skills and retrain so they can access scarce employment opportunities and improve their human capital, we must ensure the needs and requirements of adult students are core priorities in our further education system. At a time when unemployment, under-employment and emigration are harsh realities of life for thousands of Irish people, elected representatives have a duty to ensure that the education system is properly funded and resourced and that the needs and requirements of the recipients of education are at its core.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have had a lot to deal with this week, with the week that has been in it, so my examination of this issue has been somewhat rushed. While I have not fully scrutinised every aspect of this important legislation, I feel I need to speak on it. A number of issues of considerable concern regarding this package of legislation - the Bill before the House and a related Bill that we have discussed on Report Stage - have been raised with me. The two Bills will reorganise the further education sector, integrate that sector with what used to be FÁS and is now SOLAS and give responsibility for certain matters to the Department of Social Protection.

We all sympathise with the general thrust of what the Government is proposing and the rationale behind what it is trying to do. It is seeking to streamline the further education sector and link it to the need to educate, upskill and retrain people in a way that better prepares them for the labour market. I refer to those who are entering the labour market for the first time and to the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people who would like to return to the labour market. The idea of trying to connect things up - to join the dots between education, skills improvement and retraining and getting people into employment - is absolutely correct. It has been decided to link this structure to the Department of Social Protection so that the Department will have a role in trying to get people back into the workplace, rather than being seen merely as a place that gives out money. It seems to me that this attempt to put the various pieces together in a coherent way is generally a positive move. It is particularly required in light of this country's awful unemployment situation.

While I am sympathetic to the general thrust of the Bill, I am concerned about a number of aspects of it. The decision to increase the pupil-teacher ratio in the further education sector seems to fly in the face of the stated objectives of this legislation. I did not understand this fully until teachers in the further education sector explained to me the potential damage the increase in the ratio could do to the quality of the courses that are offered in the sector. While the basic point they made is of relevance throughout the country, it is particularly pertinent in my constituency because there are three further education colleges in Dún Laoghaire. It may be unusual to have such a concentration of further education colleges in one place. Teachers and representatives of all three colleges have made the point strongly that the increase in the ratio will fundamentally undermine the incredibly important work these colleges are doing in providing education, skills improvement and retraining to a precise cohort of people in the sectors of society that have been most blighted by the unemployment crisis. More than most, these people need the right type of education and retraining if they are to enter the workforce.

Further education colleges often deal with people for whom conventional academic education, which tends to suit those who go straight from second level to university, is not the best or most appropriate form of education. Very talented people who might not perform well when offered a more academic type of education need a form of education that focuses on their specific abilities, skills and talents. The type of further education we are discussing caters for them by allowing them to develop their skills and abilities in a focused way. Generally speaking, these colleges cater for people from the more socially disadvantaged groups and from the less well-off sectors in our society. The teachers have told me that the change in the pupil-teacher ratio will result in the loss of five or six full teaching posts in each of the colleges in my area.

In fact, if four or five jobs are to go as a result of the ratio, it may mean 11 part-time posts in each of those colleges, given the first people who will lose their jobs are those who are part-time, not full-time. Those people are often teachers with specialisms, without which the courses they taught simply cannot be taught any longer, because the full-time staff would not have those particular skills. They are saying a whole range of courses will be lost in their colleges and that the number of places they will be able to offer is going to be dramatically reduced.

With regard to an issue that did not feature in the debate on the connected Bill, they point out that, because of the caps that have already been imposed in terms of funding being matched with the numbers, they were already taking in hundreds more people than they were being given money for by the Department because they did not want to turn anybody away. That was difficult enough for them but, now, with the change in ratio, it will become unsustainable. They are saying that literally hundreds of places will be lost because they simply will not have the resources to provide teachers with the particular skills.

If that is what is going to happen and, as a result, the avenues for further education and the diversity of different offerings in terms of what is available for further education for hundreds of people is to be dramatically reduced, how do we square that with the generally positive aspiration of trying to reskill and re-educate as many people as possible for the workforce? It runs directly counter to it. It will have the opposite effect to the one the Government states as its objective.

Again, if one were a conspiracy theorist, which, of course, none of us is, one would note, on the one hand, the real impact of what is going to happen as a result of the change in the student-staff ratio in existing further education colleges and, on the other, the fact this Bill contains a specific reference to and provision for outsourcing further education under SOLAS to private colleges. Of course, students pay substantially more in private colleges than they would pay in registration fees in further education colleges currently, given these are relatively modest, despite recent increases, compared to what one would have to pay to the private colleges. While the Government's intention may be genuinely to increase the number of people upskilled, retrained, taken off the live register to be trained and so on, because of the change in the ratio, the further education colleges will not be able to provide for those numbers, and someone is going to have to pick up the slack. It seems to me that this slack will be picked up by the private education sector at a greater cost to the people who need that education, which is very worrying.

If one was putting together the pieces of the jigsaw that are fuelling my concern on this, one would then look at the Government proposals for the membership of the board of SOLAS, which are alarming. The Bill states that the Minister will appoint the chairperson and nine ordinary members who, in the Minister’s opinion, have experience of, and expertise in regard to, matters concerned with the functions of SOLAS and matters connected with finance, trade, commerce, corporate governance or public administration. The word "education" does not feature. It is all about finance, commerce and economics.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should read the first line.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It refers to matters connected with SOLAS's functions.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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The function is education.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is strange the word "education" is not mentioned. That worries me. There is a reason for being worried about it, given the result of the setting up of these super-quangos in the past, such as, for example, the HSE, which we all know turned into an utter disaster. The HSE replaced the health boards. While there is no question the health boards had major problems, at least they were more locally based and, in my opinion, could have been reformed in a way that was more responsive to local need and more representative of the different stakeholders. Instead, we got a super-quango, the HSE, which is unaccountable, it seems, even to the Department of Health.

The current Government has rightly been critical and said it would get rid of the HSE and so on. However, who were the people appointed by the last Government to the board of the HSE and who have made such a bags of it? They were people connected to commerce, trade, finance and so on. There were virtually no health professionals on the HSE board - that was part of the problem. It was this super-quango which ruined the health service. Some of the people on the board were from big accountancy firms and, oddly, one of the first board appointees was a former chief executive officer of Microsoft. While I am sure he has talents, what the hell is he doing in the HSE?

One seriously begins to ask questions. Is the intended or unintended consequence of this that, as in regard to health, which we saw as a business rather than a public service, we may be doing the same with further education, which is seen as a business which we can then outsource to the private education sector? Education is not a business. For sure, it should be connected to employment and directed towards training people for industry and work in any sector of the economy, but it is not a business and it should not be just done on the basis of number-crunching, unit costs and all that kind of thing. That does not add up to good education. As I have said to the Minister of State, the word on the ground from the people actually delivering further education is that the student-staff ratio will seriously undermine what is supposed to be the central purpose of all this, which is the quantity of courses and places that can be made available for people.

In my own constituency, and this could be replicated elsewhere, Dún Laoghaire currently has a VEC for these three colleges but this will now be amalgamated into the education and training board for the whole of Dublin. How is this rationalisation, if it is not just a cutback, going to improve the governance of further education in a place like Dún Laoghaire, where, in fact, it was very responsive to local need? Again, the teachers say the courses they developed over the years built up a real rapport with the needs of the people in the sector, and the courses were developed and were directed towards the needs of the people coming in and towards local business and local industry. It was dynamic. While I am not saying there were not problems with other aspects of the governance, removing this to some board at a citywide level, where that connection is broken between the governance of further education and local needs and dynamics, is a real danger.

I would like to hear the Government's response to some of these points. Obviously, it will be discussed in more detail on Committee Stage. I reiterate that while the idea is good in principle, if this reform, as has often been the case particularly in the current climate against a backdrop of cuts and austerity, turns out to be the packaging in which cuts and reductions in resources are implemented, it may not achieve its ends. There is considerable evidence that some of the measures being implemented by the Government may militate in the opposite direction. I hope that is not the case but I would like to hear more assurance from the Government that this will not be the case because teachers and people working in the further education sector tell me that this will be the real net effect. Could the Government respond to those points?

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I will respond quickly to the few points raised by Deputy Boyd Barrett. He mentioned conspiracy theories and proposed that we do not get involved in them in this House. I would argue that he elucidated one particular conspiracy theory over the past ten minutes. This is that we are somehow setting out through the creation of SOLAS II to dumb down and under-resource further education and training in this country. We are setting out to achieve the opposite. We are not creating a super-quango.

To be fair to the Deputy, what we are trying to achieve is a difficult concept to get one's head around. This is one of the most ground-breaking and reforming pieces of legislation that will come before the House in the lifetime of this Government. The closest analogy I can draw is to the function of the Higher Education Authority in terms of its relationship with universities and institutes of technology. The Higher Education Authority has a board and executive that determine the long-term vision and strategy for the direction and ambitions of the higher education sector. The board of SOLAS will have a similar function - no more and no less than that. The democratic power emanating from communities across the country that has been a critical part of the VEC structure in the past will remain that. The rapport that Deputy Boyd Barrett said has been established between the VEC sector, learners, employers and enterprise in his constituency will remain and will be enhanced through this process rather than detracted from.

I understand why people seeing such substantial change happening would question the reason for it and perhaps see that it somehow undermines their position. It is often difficult to convince people of the need for such change. Over the past year and a half, I have actively engaged with teaching and managerial staff, learners and trainees in every sector and have found nothing but significant enthusiasm among the sector for the changes we are suggesting. The sector will openly admit that it has grown organically into a rather fragmented structure across the country. There is significant duplication ongoing. For example, if a VEC in Donegal decided tomorrow morning to spend valuable taxpayers' resources on developing a new course in aquaculture, which might be very pertinent to the local economy, it is quite possible that a VEC in Galway, Kerry or other fishing communities across the country might not even be aware that such a course has been developed. Certainly there would not have been the level of co-operation and collaboration between the VECs to allow that course to be delivered elsewhere.

I agree with Deputy Boyd Barrett about the expertise that has been developed over decades of work within the VEC structure. What we are going to do here is bring together all the expertise, which is very significant, under one umbrella group or entity and then bolt on all the expertise that exists within the training sector, which again has been developed using valuable taxpayers' resources through the decades through FÁS. Bringing those together will create a powerful opportunity for people who need to gain the highest quality of educational opportunity locally. That is exactly what SOLAS is setting out to create.

As Minister of State with responsibility for training and skills, it is my responsibility to ensure that the Department through its regional and local presence provides timely, realistic and relevant opportunities for individuals to continue their education and training and for them to be equipped to avail of future job opportunities. A common number of themes emerged from the discussion last night and today. The need for our further education and training sector to keep pace with a rapidly evolving economy and jobs market was one of the major themes that emerged from our discussions. That is very much what we intend to do with the creation of SOLAS. In conjunction with Forfás, we are carrying out significant research on the skills shortages occurring now and those that may occur in the medium and long term. The new ETB structures under the aegis of SOLAS will also be obliged to carry out research in Dún Laoghaire, Galway and elsewhere to find out what skills shortages are unique to those regions and need to be responded to quickly. In a recent press interview, I suggested that FÁS was a very large behemoth of an organisation that was perhaps incapable of responding quickly to urgent changes in the jobs market. The new ETB structure under the aegis of SOLAS will be like a speedboat - able to rush to address new skills shortages and new evolution and innovation in our jobs market.

I recall reading a piece in Newsweek a number of weeks which stated that 50% of the careers that will exist by 2025 do not exist now. That is how rapidly the jobs market is changing. I read another piece online last night which stated that in the US alone, 300,000 jobs have been created developing apps for iPhones and other mobile devices. I spoke with the leader of an international software company six months' ago who told me that 85% of that company's revenue now accrues from products developed over the past 18 months. Standing still is not an option anymore. If Ireland is to remain globally competitive and at the helm of global technology development, we need to ensure that we have people to feed into and play a very active role in that process of growth and innovation. It is critical that we have training, upskilling and further education opportunities available.

That is what we are setting out to do here. There is no underhand scheme to somehow privatise the sector. FÁS in its current incarnation would already outsource about 75% to 80% of its training because the organisation does not have the capacity to deliver in the numbers we need. What I also want to see happening through the creation of SOLAS is for us to be able to actively interact with every person we either train or educate so that we can find out from him or her at an individual level how effective and meaningful the intervention has been for him or her. We will do this through an innovative software system. In the past, FÁS and the VECs gathered some of that information but more often than not, it was not used but was stored away in filing cabinets. It did not play a part in forming the long-term education and training ambitions or goals at either regional or national level. If one has all that data gathered, can track every individual and know that her or she was supported in a software, managerial or other course in any location in the country, one can tell whether he or she is back in further or higher education, is in employment or unemployed six months' later, as well as the other resources he or she needs.

In any location in the country, one can tell exactly six months later whether they are back in further or higher education, in employment or still in unemployment. That information at one's fingertips will be a very powerful tool in designing further education and training opportunities in the future.

Together with the Minister, Deputy Quinn, I am very confident and passionately believe that we are heading in the right direction. I want this to be successful. I look forward to hearing the contributions on Committee Stage. I am anxious to be as conciliatory and as collaborative as I can when dealing with the concerns of Members. I hope to be able to address those concerns in so far as possible.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I found the debate very stimulating and interesting. I thank the Minister of State.