Dáil debates

Thursday, 21 February 2013

5:20 pm

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the progress that has been made in negotiations with the professional bodies in relation to the provision of advance price quotations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9081/13]

Photo of Michael MoynihanMichael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation if he will provide an update on any discussions with the professional bodies on the provision of advance price quotations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9095/13]

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 22 together.

The Action Plan for Jobs 2012 included a specific objective of increasing price transparency by encouraging all professionals - accounting, taxation, legal, etc. - supplying the business sector and consumers to provide price quotations in advance. In pursuance of this objective, the National Consumer Agency was tasked with "conducting market research and liaising with business representative groups to compile and prioritise a list of professions where sourcing of fees is currently an issue" and "commencing work with representative bodies with a goal to make standard fee lists available for routine services to both consumers and small businesses".

The agency commissioned independent market research to identify professional services where sourcing quotations was an issue for consumers and small businesses. The research also aimed to identify any other issues or difficulties associated with obtaining quotations. One of the main findings of the research was that a significant number of small businesses do not seek quotes in advance when dealing with professions or, indeed, experience difficulties in obtaining quotes when seeking services from providers in certain professions. Among the professions identified as posing difficulties for small business in obtaining quotations were solicitors, banking, accountants and insurance. Arising from its research, the agency apprised the relevant representative business groups of the research findings and, in particular, the finding that a large number of small businesses do not seek quotes in advance when dealing with professions.

Given its remit, the agency has also been involved in a number of price display initiatives with the objective of increasing price transparency and awareness in key sectors for consumers. In particular, the agency has initiated projects to improve price transparency to consumers in relation to dentists, GPs, solicitors and so forth. As of February 2013, the agency has agreed price display initiatives with the Dental Council, the Irish Medical Organisation and Early Childhood Ireland. In addition, the agency is currently in discussions in relation to greater price transparency with the Law Society and the Health and Social Care Professionals Council. The agency intends to target price transparency in other professional services as part of its 2013 work programme.

Aside from the foregoing initiatives of the National Consumer Agency, it is also essential that both consumers and businesses actively seek to achieve the best value for money through, for example, seeking quotations from service providers.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In June 2011, Forfás issued a report, The Cost of Doing Business, which said there was a danger that if structural barriers preventing costs from adjusting are not removed, once an economic recovery kicks in, recent competitiveness gains will be rapidly eroded. The danger is particularly acute on the legal side of things. Various troika reviews have also pointed this out.

The Minister for Justice and Equality came into the House last December 12 months in a blaze of publicity, as is his wont, with the Legal Services Regulation Bill. This time last year, he parked the Bill and we have not seen it since. His boast was that the Bill would reduce legal costs, which are seriously out of kilter in Ireland.

The Minister, Deputy Bruton, spoke about the National Consumer Agency, NCA, engaging with the Law Society of Ireland. I understand the NCA wrote to the Law Society seeking an engagement on initiatives to improve transparency for SMEs. Has the NCA got a response and how stands that initiative?

What is the Minister's Department's view on the Legal Services Regulation Bill? Is it a priority in the 2013 jobs action plan that we get some sort of resolution on lowering costs, as well as providing information? There is no point providing information when costs are out of kilter with international competitors.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. There is no doubt that professional fees have been a problem area. Neither is there any doubt that the arrival of the troika has seen change, which had languished over many years. Recommendations of the Competition Authority were not implemented, for example. These have, by and large, been implemented or incorporated in the Legal Services Regulation Bill. There is significant change in access and in the competitive structure of the sector. It is, clearly, an ambition of Government to implement that legislation.

The National Consumer Agency has, indeed, been in touch with the Law Society of Ireland. The agency requested that indicative quotes for standard services be made available to consumers via websites and so on. It was suggested that the Law Society and the agency could draw up standard templates for a range of routine services which consumers could use to detail their requirements for particular services.

The Consumer Agency did an interesting survey of fees charged for various legal services. Its survey on conveyancing, for example, showed that quotes for a standard conveyancing ranged from €750 for the cheapest to €4,000 for the most expensive. There is, clearly, huge scope for more competitive delivery to business and consumers by shopping around.

The National Consumer Agency is, obviously, doing its best to make sure there is more price display, but the message is clear from the survey, which goes through conveyancing, making a will, probate and so on. There are huge savings to be made by shopping around. We are working with small business associations to get that message out to small businesses.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

First, it is all very well to tell people to shop around. Figures from the Central Statistics Office to the third quarter of 2012 show a 2% increase in service producer prices. There is no sense in shopping around when the price curve is going up.

Second, there is no Legal Services Regulation Bill. The Minister for Justice and Equality parked it, as though he could not afford to drive it on. He said he is completely rewriting the Bill, so we cannot assess or judge the impact this, as it were, makey-up Bill in the Minister's mind will have on legal services. In what will come out tomorrow for 2013, is getting the Bill through the Oireachtas and enacting it a priority?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not agree with the Deputy. I am aware of the figures he points to that show legal services cost have gone up by 2% while the costs of all professional services have come down significantly. By contrast, taking the example of conveyancing, one could get one quote that is 400% cheaper than another by shopping around. While the average fee level may be going up, there is opportunity for people to get better value. We are trying to get that message out, through the National Consumer Agency and the business associations. We are also pressing for greater price display in professional organisations.

The Minister for Justice and Equality is committed to reform in this area. He has embraced the reforms outlined by the Competition Authority as needed to bring about a more competitive environment. We look forward to the implementation of that legislation.