Dáil debates
Tuesday, 19 February 2013
Order of Business
5:20 pm
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. 17, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; No. 18, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann that section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966 shall continue in force for the period ending on 8 March 2014; No. 19, motion re referral to select sub-committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2013; No. 37, statements on the Report of the Inter-Departmental Committee to establish the facts of State involvement with the Magdalen Laundries, to be taken at 6.30 p.m. and to adjourn after spokespersons' statements; and No. 6, Finance Bill 2013 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of the opening speeches of No. 6; the sitting shall be suspended on the conclusion of the Topical Issue Debate until 6.30 p.m.; (2) Nos. 17, 18 and 19 shall be decided without debate; (3) the following arrangements shall apply in relation to No. 37: (i) the statements of the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and of the leaders of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, or persons nominated in their stead, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case, and such members may share their time; (ii) the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes, and such Members may share their time; (iii) the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, and such members may share their time; and (iv) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; and (4) Private Members’ business, which shall be No. 104, motion re mortgage restructuring, shall take place on the conclusion of the spokespersons' statements on No. 37 or at 7.30 p.m., whichever is the later, and shall adjourn after 90 minutes, if not previously concluded.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are four proposals to be put to the House. No. 1 is the proposal that the Dáil shall later than 9 p.m. tonight and that the suspension of sitting be agreed to. Is that agreed?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Not agreed.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Not agreed.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In terms of the schedule before us, there is no need to take Second Stage of the Finance Bill right through to midnight. It is an extraordinary situation that we will be commencing the Finance Bill at about 9.45 p.m. By my calculation, all the significant speeches by the Minister and the spokespersons will take us through to about 11.45 p.m. This is not emergency legislation. There is nothing of huge consequence in the Finance Bill itself. I do not mean that in a negative way, it is just that nothing is required to be passed by midnight. I know the Bill will also be discussed on Thursday. To be frank, the Finance Bill should be discussed in broad daylight and should be given a reasonable timescale. It does not have to finish on Thursday. In previous years, Finance Bills went on longer. I do not understand what the rush is. I certainly think that it is not good for Parliament that the very first consideration of the Finance Bill would be at 9.45 p.m. right through to midnight. I just do not see why. It is almost reminiscent of December when we are rushing things thought prior to the Christmas break. We are now in springtime and I do not see the necessity for this. I think it is wrong for Parliament. The Finance Bill is important legislation that deserves its proper priority space within the scheduling of the House's business. In addition, the contributions of Members should get as full exposure as possible. I hope the Taoiseach is not guillotining the Bill, although it seems that he will on Thursday. That is something to which we would be very much opposed.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I hope I am wrong but I do not think there is much point in objecting to this, given the way the Government deals with schedules. However, consideration must be given not just to Teachtaí Dála but also to the staff who will have to stay here until almost midnight.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of correction, it is until 12.40 a.m. actually.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is until 12.45 a.m.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes, I am calling Deputy Boyd Barrett.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin is not used to working late.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, can we have Deputy Boyd Barrett?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Here is the man in blue. Boy blue.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I will wait until you have stopped with the hilarity, Taoiseach.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please proceed.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I want to object in the strongest possible terms to the Finance Bill - which is probably one of the most important Bills that will pass through the Dáil in the course of this year - being taken that late at night.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is never happy.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I did not ask you, Minister.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should speak through the Chair, please.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is absolutely unacceptable that the Finance Bill should be taken that late. I do not know why the Taoiseach thinks it is funny. It is an absolute manipulation and abuse of the democratic process that a Bill of this importance is being taken that late and into the early hours of tomorrow morning. This Bill has profound implications for the solvency of the State and for citizens. It should been discussed in the full glare of public scrutiny and media attention. In my opinion, it is deliberately being put this late at night.
There is absolutely no need for it. Members could have been brought into the Chamber earlier this morning or, for example, the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill scheduled for Thursday could have been swapped with the Finance Bill.
5:30 pm
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you Deputy.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The introduction of the Finance Bill should be taken at an hour when the public, the media and everyone can scrutinise fully that introduction. I appeal to the Taoiseach to change this proposed order. I also reiterate a point others have made, which is to have some respect for the staff in the Dáil who will be forced to stay here so late.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you. The Taoiseach to reply.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Will the Deputy shout more loudly tonight to be heard?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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First, the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill is a budgetary requirement that must be taken and must go through. Deputy Martin raised the point about the Dáil commencing the Finance Bill at 9.45 p.m.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It will be later than 9.45 p.m.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Taoiseach, it now will be later.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The schedule has been revised.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This will be a full formal discussion in this Chamber on the Finance Bill. The Minister for Finance must travel to London tomorrow morning and it appears to me that commencing a formal discussion at 9.45 p.m.-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It will commence at 10.45 p.m.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Taoiseach, it is scheduled for 10.45 p.m.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----is a hell of a lot better than having some kind of incorporeal meeting at 3 a.m.-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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On a point of information------
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will be 10.45 p.m.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----about placing an economic crucifixion on the backs of the people, which the Government now must rectify.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is what the Government did two weeks ago and now it is doing it again.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In any event, the Dáil will sit tonight until 12.40 a.m. on Second Stage of the Finance Bill.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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No, it will be later.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The House will sit all day tomorrow until 10.30 p.m. on the Second Stage debate of the Finance Bill and will continue that debate on Thursday until 2.30 p.m. This comprises more than 12 hours of Second Stage debate, which is more than adequate for Members to have their say in the full glare of public examination and publicity-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is manipulation.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and I look forward to hearing what Deputy Boyd Barrett has to say in that regard.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach must provide the factual times.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is treating the House with contempt on a consistent basis.
Tá
- Tom Barry
- Joan Burton
- Ray Butler
- Jerry Buttimer
- Catherine Byrne
- Eric Byrne
- Joe Carey
- Paudie Coffey
- Áine Collins
- Michael Conaghan
- Paul Connaughton
- Ciara Conway
- Michael Creed
- Lucinda Creighton
- Jim Daly
- John Deasy
- Jimmy Deenihan
- Pat Deering
- Regina Doherty
- Paschal Donohoe
- Robert Dowds
- Andrew Doyle
- Bernard Durkan
- Damien English
- Alan Farrell
- Frank Feighan
- Anne Ferris
- Peter Fitzpatrick
- Charles Flanagan
- Terence Flanagan
- Dominic Hannigan
- Noel Harrington
- Simon Harris
- Tom Hayes
- Martin Heydon
- Brendan Howlin
- Heather Humphreys
- Kevin Humphreys
- Derek Keating
- Paul Kehoe
- Enda Kenny
- Seán Kenny
- Seán Kyne
- Anthony Lawlor
- Ciarán Lynch
- John Lyons
- Michael McCarthy
- Nicky McFadden
- Dinny McGinley
- Joe McHugh
- Tony McLoughlin
- Michael McNamara
- Eamonn Maloney
- Peter Mathews
- Mary Mitchell O'Connor
- Michelle Mulherin
- Dara Murphy
- Eoghan Murphy
- Gerald Nash
- Dan Neville
- Derek Nolan
- Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
- Kieran O'Donnell
- Patrick O'Donovan
- John O'Mahony
- Jan O'Sullivan
- John Paul Phelan
- Ruairi Quinn
- James Reilly
- Michael Ring
- Brendan Ryan
- Alan Shatter
- Emmet Stagg
- David Stanton
- Billy Timmins
- Joanna Tuffy
- Liam Twomey
- Leo Varadkar
- Jack Wall
- Brian Walsh
- Alex White
Níl
- Gerry Adams
- Richard Boyd Barrett
- Tommy Broughan
- Dara Calleary
- Joan Collins
- Michael Colreavy
- Seán Crowe
- Clare Daly
- Pearse Doherty
- Dessie Ellis
- Martin Ferris
- Seán Fleming
- Tom Fleming
- Michael Healy-Rae
- Colm Keaveney
- Séamus Kirk
- Michael Kitt
- Pádraig MacLochlainn
- Charlie McConalogue
- Mary Lou McDonald
- Mattie McGrath
- Michael McGrath
- Sandra McLellan
- Micheál Martin
- Catherine Murphy
- Éamon Ó Cuív
- Seán Ó Fearghaíl
- Aengus Ó Snodaigh
- Jonathan O'Brien
- Willie O'Dea
- Maureen O'Sullivan
- Thomas Pringle
- Shane Ross
- Róisín Shortall
- Brendan Smith
- Brian Stanley
- Robert Troy
- Mick Wallace
5:40 pm
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 17, 18 and 19 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 37 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed.
I call Deputy Martin. Could we have order in the House because there are only six minutes left on the Order of Business.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise two issues if I could get the Taoiseach's attention.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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They are talking about closing Garda stations.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If Members are leaving the Chamber, would they do so quietly?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is unusual and unprecedented for the Chief Justice to find herself issuing warnings on Supreme Court appeals being delayed because of the unprecedented number of appeals seeking priority hearings. According to the Irish Independent, 600 appeals were filed in 2012, which is double the number filed in 2007. What does the Government intend to do to respond to this situation in the context of the courts Bill? Is consideration being given to appointing a new court of appeal, which would require a referendum, to which, I understand, the Government is committed? Will the Taoiseach confirm that a referendum will take place? When does he expect the publication of the courts Bill?
While welcoming the sale of Irish Life to Great-West Lifeco's subsidiary, Canada Life (Ireland), 2,200 employees will be wondering about their fate in terms of security of tenure and employment? Has the Minister for Finance given guarantees to protect the workforce?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot debate that on the Order of Business.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I refer to the workplace relations Bill.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is stretching it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That may be so but I assure the Ceann Comhairle the Bill is in the legislative programme.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does it cover the Irish Life takeover?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Security of tenure is central to workplace relations and the bottom line is the legislation was promised previously in the context of the sale of Quinn Insurance to the Liberty Mutual Group, following which 250 people were laid off within a year. It remains a serious issue.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of the comments made by the Chief Justice, which I have noted, it is the intention of the Government to introduce a court of civil appeal. That will require a referendum. Work is under way on preparing for that referendum and I expect it will be held in the autumn on the same day as the referendum on the abolition of the Seanad.
The workplace relations Bill is due this session. I am sure the Deputy will welcome the sale of Irish Life and the position is no compulsory redundancies are expected.
5:45 pm
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Given the decision to sit beyond midnight, I ask that the bar be closed or that breathalyzer tests be introduced for Teachtaí entering the Chamber.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter is not covered by the Order of Business.
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, some members of Deputy Adams's party were in the bar recently when we sat late. I was drinking tea and coffee and was not on any hard stuff. Deputy Adams should speak for himself. Members of his party were in the bar on the night in question.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Feighan should resume his seat.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Once a hypocrite, always a hypocrite.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could we please get back to the Order of Business?
Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Adams is doing the House a disservice.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies should settle down.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Teachtaí protest too much.
On the social welfare and pensions Bill-----
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Which pension is that? Is it the Westminster one?
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I understand the report of the expert advisory group on tax and social welfare was due to be discussed by the Cabinet today. As I understand it, the report outlines a plan to tax or introduce a two tier system for child benefit. The Taoiseach will recall that the Labour Party famously promised not to cut child benefit.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Was the report discussed at Cabinet? When will it be published and debated? When will the social welfare and pensions Bill be introduced?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The heads of the social welfare Bill will be ready in April and I expect it will be published in the next session. In regard to child benefit, the report in question will be published, I believe, today or tomorrow. It will go to the relevant Oireachtas committee for consultation and will come back to government in due course, probably in April or May.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What is the position with the bar?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The matter cannot be discussed on the Order of Business.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I raise a serious issue which is of concern to people all over the country, namely, the proposed sale of our timber and forestry assets, including those held by Coillte. When does the Government intend to reform and update the legislative framework relating to forestry to support the development of a modern forestry sector? Can it not see the wood from the trees?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thought the Deputy's interest was in metal.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This session.
John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Has progress been made on the gambling control Bill, which is due for publication this year? Has the Cabinet discussed the Bill? We hear every day about the problems of online gambling.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A number of other Deputies wish to contribute.
John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What progress has been made on the Bill?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Department is working on the heads of the Bill, which is expected later this year.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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With regard to student nurses who are being forced into a cheap labour scheme-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will not have a preamble.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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-----84 applications have been made for 1,000 places and they are being bullied and told their contracts will not be renewed-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to co-operate.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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-----unless they enter the Government's slave scheme.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a load of nonsense. The Deputy should get on with it.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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It is not nonsense.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are discussing promised legislation. The Deputy should stop acting the maggot every day.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I am discussing the Health Service Executive.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should table a parliamentary question. To what legislation is he referring?
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What does that have to do with the scheme for nurses?
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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If the Ceann Comhairle was a student nurse, he would agree it has everything to do with the scheme.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill is on Second Stage.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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If the Deputy read the Order Paper, he would know that.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Last year, the Taoiseach announced the new national paediatric hospital would be located in St. James's Hospital. The remit of the old national paediatric hospital development board ran out on 5 December and new legislation is due, which would give effect to the plans. When is the Bill due?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not have a date for publication. The legislation is being worked on. Obviously, there is a requirement to introduce it quickly.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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On the horse racing Bill, which is due this year, has the Taoiseach spoken to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, about the welfare of horses-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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-----given that the Minister does not have fundamental basic statistics, for example, on the number of horses slaughtered and exported?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please co-operate. We are over time and another Deputy wishes to speak.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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This is an important issue.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Bill has not yet come to the Government and is due later in the year.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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I understand the Minister has a draft of the Mercer report on the remuneration of high ranking bankers and banking officials. When will the report be published and when will legislation on it be introduced? The Taoiseach's statement that there will not be compulsory redundancies at Irish Life does not lay to rest the fears of 2,800 workers in Irish Life and Canada Life, many of whom are low paid, given the announcement today that there will be voluntary redundancies. When will high ranking officials in the banks have their wages slashed, as promised by the Government?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not having speeches. To which Bill is the Deputy referring?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is referring to the review of remuneration practices and frameworks. Deputy Doherty received a letter dated 15 February indicating what is the current position, namely, the office of the Minister for Finance is in discussions concerning the draft report presented by the consultants to the Department. It is hoped the report will be finalised very soon. The Minister is committed to publishing the details which underpin the remuneration review in view of the public interest in this matter. That should not be too long.