Dáil debates
Wednesday, 6 February 2013
Business of Dáil: Motion
8:25 pm
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Kehoe.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I move:
That notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Second and Remaining Stages of No. a3 on the Supplementary Order Paper, the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Bill 2013, shall be taken tonight and the following arrangements shall apply: (1) the proceedings on Second Stage shall be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour 55 minutes; (2) the opening speech of the Minister for Finance or a Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (3) the speech of the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the leaders of the Fianna Fáil Party, the Sinn Féin Party and a representative of the Technical Group or another Member nominated in their stead who may share time shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (4) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; (5) the proceedings on the Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 15 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; and (6) the sitting shall adjourn until 1 p.m. tomorrow whereupon the business shall commence with the Order of Business.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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My party's finance spokesman has just arrived into the House just having been-----
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I welcome him back.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a serious issue.
Eamonn Maloney (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It was a serious issue in 2008.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is legislation being put before us. My party's finance spokesman has just been briefed. We on this side of the House have not read the Bill.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not think anybody has read this Bill.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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-----have not read the Bill.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow Deputy Martin.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have the schedule from the Whip. There is something fundamentally wrong-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Hear, hear.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----with asking us to pass something that we have not even read for even ten minutes. We must oppose the order.
I am seeking an adjournment of the House for a further period to allow for a very preliminary reading of the Bill to allow us to make some assessment of it. At this particular stage, we have not seen the Bill. It is extraordinary that we would be asked to consider a Bill we had not seen until a few minutes ago.
8:30 pm
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Deputy Martin made a lot of decisions without seeing them.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Steady now, Deputy Rabbitte.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Deputy Martin never read anything.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we please have a brief contribution from those objecting to the Order of Business?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the Minister may have understandable reasons for bringing the Bill in and I am not questioning his bona fides in that regard. The Dáil is being asked to consider legislation of grave and profound importance that could and will have profound implications for many people. This Bill will be gone through in considerable detail and perhaps subsequently challenged by people outside of this House who have gone through it with a fine tooth comb. According to the announcement by the Government Chief Whip, it looks like the objective is to ram this through without any consideration at all of the detail of the Bill.
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is trying to help the Deputy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would appreciate it if the Government could circulate the arrangements for timing but slots of 15 minutes, ten minutes and a five minute wrap up with no real Committee Stage to allow for any detailed examination of the Bill is unacceptable and I seek an adjournment of the House for us as a party and other parties to consider the legislation.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is important legislation and the Minister will explain why. To help the Ceann Comhairle, we can adjourn until 11.30 p.m. if Deputy Martin wants to go off and talk to his spokesman on finance.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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What about midnight? That is not enough time to read the Bill.
Arthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour)
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The Deputy read 1,000 pages in ten minutes yesterday.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is it agreed that we adjourn until 11.30 p.m.? A request has been made for more time to consider the Bill. The Taoiseach has offered a further half an hour until 11.30 p.m. Without any further debate, is that agreed or not? It is not agreed.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There is a more fundamental issue involved here. We were promised a new way of doing business. I would be immensely surprised if Members from the Government parties have read the Bill. We are being asked to parse it and Deputy Pearse Doherty has just arrived from a briefing on it. This is probably one of the most important Bills that will go through this Dáil and we are either going to get a write down, which would be a pleasant surprise given the Government did not ask for one, or we are going to saddle our children and grandchildren with the bill.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Sinn Féin is willing the country to fail.
Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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They are failure addicts.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We deserve the right to parse and study the Bill so the Government does not commit the same sin it accuses the last Government of committing, of rushing things through. The Labour Party was very loud at that time in opposition to what was going on. We need more time on this.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I remember that well.
Arthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour)
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We were right, as opposed to Sinn Féin being wrong.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is just not on. This State was bankrupted as a result of decisions made in the early hours of the morning and rammed through in precisely the manner the Government is talking about now.
Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Not true. That is not true.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We are talking about a Bill that is dealing with assets of over €40 billion from Anglo Irish Bank.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Liabilities, not assets.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The finance spokespeople were briefed 15 or 20 minutes before this session began. We were rushed through this Bill dealing with €40 billion worth of assets in about 15 minutes.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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They are liabilities.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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If there were assets we would not be here.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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If they were assets we would be sorted.
Arthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour)
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Debit and credit, they are opposite sides.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Government is seriously suggesting we can make an informed decision-----
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Government Members have disgraced themselves again.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is getting late and people's tempers are getting frayed.
Would you please relax and allow the Deputy to make his point after which I will ask the Taoiseach to reply? Quiet, please. I mean quiet in case you did not hear me, Deputy Mathews.
8:40 pm
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Sorry, a Cheann Comhairle.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Boyd Barrett and ask him to make a short contribution.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Absolutely, if they do not heckle.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not want to go through the contents of the Bill.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is too serious to be rammed through in this manner where we have not had time, certainly on this side of the House. It is debatable whether the Taoiseach has had a chance to read it - I suspect he has, but certainly we on this side of the House have not. It is absolutely unacceptable that we are expected to be bounced into making a decision on moneys to the tune of more than €40 billion which could have enormous ramifications for this State and this economy. It is not on. It is not sufficient to have an extra half an hour to have a quick glance at it.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We need an informed discussion on the Bill. We need a proper un-guillotined debate and we need an opportunity just to read the legislation. The Taoiseach should not do what the previous Government did. The idea that this-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you very much, Deputy.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----serious legislation could be rammed through in this way is absolutely shameful politics.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Let me repeat that this is a very serious matter. This Bill has been planned for quite some time. The Cabinet met in formal session this evening to approve the memorandum from the Minister for Finance which will have the effect of the protection of between €12 billion and €14 billion worth of assets for this State and its people. Not dealing with this would leave potential liabilities of up to €40 billion as the Deputy mentioned. The Opposition spokespersons have been briefed on what is essentially a technical Bill.
Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Come on now, Taoiseach.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have offered to give Deputies until 11.30 p.m. to consider this.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Some 800 workers will lose their jobs tomorrow. Is that technical?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are implications here-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Order.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----for the workers, for deposits and so on. This Bill being passed tonight gives legal certainty to the protection of these assets for the State and, therefore, for our people.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What about the jobs?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I suggest again that I will give the Opposition parties until 11.45 p.m. and that is it.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Midnight.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Let us go to midnight.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is plenty of time to examine it.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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We want another 15 minutes, Taoiseach.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is it agreed that we resume at 11.45 p.m.?
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Go and read it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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In that case, I must put the question. Are we really serious about this?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Before you put the question, a Cheann Comhairle-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will waste time putting the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We do not want to do anything just for pig iron. People got very late briefings at 10.15 p.m. We were hanging around all evening and at 10.15 p.m. the finance spokespersons were brought over in order to start the debate on a Bill at 11 p.m.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have been through all that.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is now 11.15 p.m. and I respectfully suggest that if the Taoiseach allows us until midnight, I will go along with that.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach has said he is giving until 11.45 p.m.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Midnight.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If Deputies do not agree to that-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We would lose more time on the vote.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Midnight.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, please resume your seat. If Deputies do not agree with that, I am obliged in accordance with the order presented by the Government Chief Whip to put the question. We either agree on the floor of the House to 11.45 p.m. or else I put the question.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will be here all night. Does Deputy McGrath agree to 12 midnight?
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Yes.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Do you agree to 12 midnight, Deputy Adams?
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is like a horse trader.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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No, we need more time.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is an offer on the table of 12 midnight. Are we agreed to that?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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There are seven pages in the Bill.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Why is this being forced into a two hour slot? A Cheann Comhairle, could I honourably suggest that if you want some order from Government Deputies, perhaps you should close the Dáil bar? That might be a useful way to get some order here.
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Cop on, will you?
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Two hours is too short a time.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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In that case I will now put the question that we should proceed now. I am therefore putting the question-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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12 midnight.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, Deputy Adams has not agreed and, therefore, I am obliged to put the question that is before the House.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach offered 12 midnight.
8:50 pm
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach has agreed to the suspension of the House until midnight.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot change an Order made by the Government.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach proposed an amendment to it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Adams is not agreeing to it.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Fianna Fáil will second the Taoiseach's amendment.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies, please allow me-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, the Taoiseach has proposed an amendment to the Order.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes. I will put the question.