Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will specify his plans for the total strength of An Garda Síochána by the end of 2013, 2014 and 2015; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6088/13]

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As of 31 December 2012, the latest date for which figures are readily available, the total strength of the force was 13,424 which is, in fact, 74 more than the figure of 13,350 proposed by Fianna Fáil in its National Recovery Plan 2011-2014. There are also approximately 2,000 civilian support staff and almost 1,000 Garda reserves in the Garda Síochána. The Deputy might be interested to know that a graduation ceremony for some additional reserves will take place shortly.

Garda numbers have been reducing owing to the moratorium on recruitment put in place by the previous Government as part of its plan to reduce the strength of the force to 13,000. My objective, despite the enormous financial pressures facing the Government is to ensure that Garda numbers will not fall below 13,000. At yesterday's Cabinet meeting, I informed my Cabinet colleagues that I am reviewing the position regarding Garda numbers in light of an estimated reduction to just over 13,000 by the end of 2013 and in this context I will be bringing proposals to Cabinet in the coming weeks.

I will be making these proposals as part of a wider determination to ensure that the Garda Síochána has the greatest possible resources made available to it, and that it is supported in making the necessary reforms to ensure that those resources are used to the greatest effect. In that context I have managed to secure a budget of €1.4 billion for the Garda Síochána for 2013, which includes a specific provision of €5 million for new vehicles for the force. This is in addition to the €4 million for vehicles that was provided last year.

I have also strongly supported the Garda Commissioner in the introduction of real reform, such as the piloting of new rosters, the closure of under-utilised stations and the consequent freeing up of gardaí for operational duties, and the merger of Garda districts which will bring about much greater administrative efficiency. These reforms are vital to ensure that the best use is made of Garda resources and that the most efficient and effective policing service is delivered to the public. These reforms should be supported by all Members of the House.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister might address the following point in his supplementary reply. It has been widely reported, predominantly in the national print media, that the Garda Síochána budget for this year is not sufficient to meet the cost of paying the entire force, and that in this regard, the introduction of a three-year career break mechanism is being considered, which may result in a reduction in the force to approximately 12,000.

The Minister referred to the resources of An Garda Síochána. I agree on the need to modernise and find efficiencies. However, as agreed last week, Garda stations are being closed not for financial reasons but owing to the Minister's vision for policing, which differs from that of a broad coalition of people. Last night, I attended a public meeting in County Mayo attended by more than 200 people who are concerned about crime, policing and the closure of Garda stations. These people are worried at the direction in which the Minister is taking An Garda Síochána in terms of the closure of rural Garda stations. They do not want the Minister to break the link between communities and Garda stations. That is the message I was asked last night by people from Kilmaine, County Mayo, to convey to the Minister today. Perhaps the Minister will say if there is any truth or substance in, as widely reported in the media, members of An Garda Síochána being offered career breaks of up to three years and an upfront payment.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I said earlier, and previously in public, the Garda Commissioner and I are ad idem on the strength of An Garda Síochána not falling below 13,000. That is my view, as expressed privately and publicly. As I said earlier to the Deputy, I will be bringing a proposal in this regard before Cabinet in the coming weeks.

On the closure of Garda stations, there has been much discussion and a little political points scoring on this issue in the House. The Garda Commissioner conducted an examination of the Garda station network during 2012, following which he made an operational judgment that 100 stations are of no operational advantage and, if closed, would result in more members of the force being available for community policing and front-line services. An estimate was also done of the benefits, one of which will be 61,000 additional patrolling hours during 2013. That is the effect of the closure of the stations.

The Deputy and I had an interesting exchange on this matter last Thursday evening on "Prime Time", at which time the focus was on rural stations. This is not only about rural stations. The largest station closing, in terms of Garda numbers, is in Stepaside in my constituency. It is closing on the operational advice of the Garda Commissioner. Dundrum Garda station is located approximately three miles from the Stepaside Garda station. It made sense to have two stations when the road network and motor vehicles and communications system were different. Some people want, for political reasons, to portray this as an attack on rural Ireland. I would like to remind Deputies that the two largest stations due to close this year under this consolidation process are in Kill o' the Grange in Dun Laoghaire, which is in the Tánaiste's constituency, and Stepaside in my constituency. In the past, Ministers wishing to avoid controversy in their constituencies would not have allowed that to happen. I believe we have an extremely good Garda Commissioner, on whose operational advice I rely.

The largest stations, in the context of numbers, closed last year were in Dublin, including Whitehall Garda station, Harcourt Terrace Garda station, another in Dún Laoghaire and Dalkey Garda station. Stations that are open for no more than three to four hours per day, the vast majority of which are manned by one member of the force, are being closed because the Garda Commissioner has determined they are of no operational value.

As regards the Deputy's comment that these stations act as a deterrent to crime, last week in Oldcastle a family was held hostage and a post office was robbed. Three doors away from that post office there is a Garda station which opens for three to four hours per day. It was no deterrent to that appalling event. We need modernise policing methods which free up members of the force to engage in operational duties and community policing. I assure the people in Mayo, to whom Deputy Collins referred, that these changes will result in more gardaí being available for community policing, patrolling and crime prevention and detection.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is not only an attack on rural Ireland, it is an attack on urban and rural Ireland. I have repeatedly made these points in relation to station closures across Dublin as well. The Minister fails to recognise that his policies are resulting in a disconnection between gardaí and communities and access to garda services on a satellite basis. The Minister and I differ in terms of our vision for policing in this country. The Minister, when discussing this issue, repeatedly refers to the Garda Commissioner, in respect of which I have also taken issue with him.

The Minister referred to what happened in Oldcastle. A pensioner in Kerry was robbed on the same day a local Garda station there was closed. One can be selective about the stories one tells. The point made by the Minister in support of the closure of part-time rural Garda stations was raised at the meeting in Mayo last night. People take issue with his statement that 61,000 hours will be freed up to allow gardaí engage in additional policing. Gardaí in the communities are already carrying out this function. There is nothing wrong with their being available in Garda stations to interact with the public. There is nothing wrong with an elderly person knowing he or she can go to the local Garda station to make a complaint and so on. The Minister fails to recognise this. This is part of a wider plan to remove other services from communities, towns and villages and centralise them in larger cities.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is the difference between members of the force sitting in a station for three or four hours each morning or being out in the community.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are not sitting around; they are interacting with the community.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are not taking community gardaí out of communities. We are freeing them up to be more engaged with members of the community. These are operational decisions. I am not washing my hands of them. I support the Garda Commissioner. These are operational decisions made by the Garda Commissioner who has the statutory right and expertise to make them. I know some people are unhappy with change. A retired assistant commissioner has stated that he does not know what smart policing is and does not understand why we are doing all of this. I do not believe that in 2013 we need the station network we were handed in 1922 in colonial times. We all have smart phones and so on nowadays. Smart policing is about flexibility within the policing service to adapt policing to meet the exigencies that arise, to facilitate the putting in place of special operations and to ensure the availability of the transport and capacity to deal with mobile gangs throughout the country. Having members of the force unnecessarily engaged in administrative duties is not smart. I accept that members of the force do important duties such as signing passport forms and so on. However, we do not need 700 stations, which is what the Deputy wants, so that passport forms can be signed. We need trained members of the force engaged in the work for which they have been trained. We need them engaged in crime prevention and detection.

At the end of this process we will still have proportionately far more stations in our station network than any of the networks existing in neighbouring police forces. I keep giving the example of 340 stations in Scotland for a population of 5.2 million. With all of the closures implemented we will have 564 stations for a population of 4.5 million.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I want to make a quick point.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry, no.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister is giving the impression they are sitting behind their desks doing nothing-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sorry Deputy-----

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and that is not the case. They are providing a community service.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will close this place down if we do not have order.