Dáil debates

Tuesday, 22 January 2013

Other Questions

Croke Park Agreement Review

2:40 pm

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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To ask the Minister for Education and Skills in view of discussions on the achievement of a second Croke Park deal, his views on whether new entrants to the teaching profession should be protected from any further cuts and that there should be no new measures specifically targeting new entrants to the profession; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2707/13]

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It would not be appropriate that I comment on discussions with public service unions which are ongoing under the aegis of the Labour Relations Commission.

The Deputy will be aware that the previous Government imposed a pay reduction of 10% on new entrants to the public service, and also decided that new entrants should enter on the first point of the relevant scale. This resulted in a combined reduction of 14% in the salary of new entrant teachers. More recently, this Government decided to abolish qualification allowances for all new beneficiaries with effect from 1 February 2012, as part of the public service-wide allowances review. In order to substantially mitigate the impact of this measure, it was decided that new entrant teachers, who will not be paid qualification allowances, will start on a new pay scale on a point equivalent to the fourth point of the existing scale.

In my view, this approach indicates a real understanding on the part of the Government of the issues facing young teachers.

Photo of Charlie McConalogueCharlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for that response.

Over the past year, we have seen the emergence of a two-tier system in the teaching profession. Teachers who qualified as recently as 2010 and are on starting salaries, including allowances, of €39,000 are now teaching alongside newly qualified teachers who are on the new pay scale of €30,000, some 30% less than their colleagues.

We must continue to attract highly qualified teachers into the profession because that provides the basis for ensuring that students get the best possible education and is the platform on which the rest of our education system is built.

I would like to hear the Minister's comments on the negotiation of the new Croke Park agreement. Can he give an assurance that there will be no further hits on newly qualified teachers in the agreement? Can he also give an assurance that he will address the emergence of the two-tier system and ensure that newly qualified teachers receive equal treatment with their more experienced colleagues.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I am not going to comment on ongoing negotiations which have only just commenced. It would not help the successful outcome of those negotiations or accelerate their coming to a conclusion.

Young trainee accountants and solicitors and other people who have recently qualified from formal college have gone into the private sector at salaries that are considerably less than what prevailed previously. In some cases, entire firms of professionals, such as solicitors, have reduced their salaries, as has happened with the public sector. In some larger institutions, different trainees are at different rates of pay because of the time they entered the profession. This is not confined to the public service.

It is not fair, but I do not think we can we address it in the short term. I would expect, however, that in any subsequent major talks the trade union movement will have on its agenda the equalisation of pay grades between people doing the same job, because the principle of the same pay for the same job still prevails.

We had no discretion, given that the Croke Park agreement confirmed that there would be no further reductions in the salaries of existing public service employees.

All we could do was offer a reduced salary to new entrants. Difficult as that is, there are still nine applicants for every student training place in the country. The demand from young people coming out of secondary school to get into colleges of education is still remarkably high and I want it to remain so. The current situation is less than fully satisfactory.

2:50 pm

Photo of Charlie McConalogueCharlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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There is undoubtedly a high demand for training places in third level colleges, and that is reflected in the numbers of young people who want to enter the teaching profession. We must ensure we retain those people in the country and that teaching is the sort of profession they want to stay in and perform well in. Our education system will be much better off as a result.

We saw the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform outline what he hoped to achieve in the allowances system and he then came back with 1% of his original target. The Government is targeting recruits who are not in a position to defend themselves because in most cases they have not yet been employed. As a result, a two-tier system is emerging. The Minister claims this system is a result of the Croke Park agreement. Does he believe that in the negotiations currently under way it will be possible to achieve a system with greater equity so new teachers do not take the hit and we can retain those who want to become teachers?

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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As I said at the outset, I am not going to anticipate the outcome of the current negotiations. All of those on both sides of the table know what the issues are and any comments from me in this House would not be helpful. We must wait and see what progress they make and what progress is possible. We want to continue to correct our public finances, maintain job security for those in the public service and reduce overall operating costs with no disruption in the delivery of the public services we all depend upon. No other country in Europe is doing that as successfully as Ireland, certainly no other country that has an 8% budget deficit.

Photo of Patrick O'DonovanPatrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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In the context of the number of recently qualified teachers looking for jobs, and the numbers who are anxious to get into the training colleges, has the Department been in contact with the private sector teaching training institutes? All of us have people coming to our constituency clinics and telling us of the difficulty in finding work in the private or public sectors. The publicly funded training institutes have limited their intake as a result of the economic downturn. Has there been any engagement between the Department of Education and Skills and the private sector about the number of graduates it is producing on an annual basis?

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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We are in contact with the main provider in the private sector, Hibernia College, which trains online with educational engagement on an outreach basis for qualified graduates who wish to become primary school teachers. We have no formal relationship with the college that would regulate the number of graduates it can produce. That is a matter for the market as far as the college is concerned, but it keeps a close eye on overall demand.