Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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The announcement of the closure of Stepaside Garda station about two weeks ago took the people of Stepaside and the surrounding area by surprise and was a considerable shock to them. The area between Dundrum and Enniskerry, in which approximately 18,000 to 20,000 people live, will be without a Garda station as a result. I must declare an interest as I was brought up about 500 yards away from this Garda station. In the days when I was growing up, it was the centre of a very small community. It is now the centre of a very large community which is extraordinarily surprised and universally upset by the fact that the station is to close, because it is such an important part of the lives of young and old people in this area.

We held a meeting about this in Kilternan a few days ago and what was so striking about it was that people of all ages and from all areas of life feel they depend on the local Garda station as part of their local community. Members of the Garda also attended the meeting and spoke against this closure, saying it would be far more difficult to police the area if this station is closed next July or at any other time. Stepaside contains a post office and many shops and has been expanding considerably in recent times. The area that will need to be policed includes Sandyford, Leopardstown Shopping Centre, Carrickmines, Carrickmines Retail Park and Glencullen. The area also has a rural aspect. It is very important that people who live in and around the Dublin Mountains in Glencullen and Barnacullia have a local Garda station. They feel they will not be properly served if this service goes to Dundrum or Blackrock.

I know the thinking in the Department is that the area will be well policed because there will be a large number of Garda cars able to service the area. The difficulty here is the distance, the traffic and the problem of getting from Dundrum out to Kilternan in a short period of time. That will be the real problem. This Garda station, which includes 30 gardaí, will have to be removed and I do not know what will happen to it. I do not know if the Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence heard about the result of that meeting but there was a unanimous demand that this Garda station be kept open. I welcome the presence of Deputy Mathews, who is also against the closure.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Ross for raising this issue. I fully appreciate the sensitivities with regard to Garda station closures. While I dealt with the issue at great length in the House during Question Time just over a week ago, this Topical Issue debate provides me once more with an opportunity to set out in clear and unambiguous terms the objectives of the programme of consolidation of the Garda station and district network.

The decision to close 100 Garda stations in 2013 was the result of a comprehensive operational assessment carried out not by me but by the Garda Commissioner over the past 12 months. The policing plan for 2013, which I laid before the House two weeks ago, outlines the Commissioner's proposals for the continued reorganisation and consolidation of the Garda station and district network.

It is important to put the consolidation of our Garda stations into context. Up to this year, the Garda station network was essentially the same as the Royal Irish Constabulary network in 1922, comprising 703 Garda stations. Such a large-scale static deployment of resources is no longer appropriate in the present day with a transport and communications infrastructure which has been transformed. The Garda Síochána has a class-leading police computer system, a state-of-the-art digital radio system and a transport fleet which is currently receiving significant investment. The new Garda roster being piloted across the country provides a better match between Garda availability and policing demand. All of these developments enable the Garda Síochána to be more mobile, responsive and flexible and to deliver a more effective policing service. After the closures in 2013, there will still be 564 Garda stations in the State. That will still be significantly more than comparable jurisdictions such as Northern Ireland, where there are 86 police stations for a population of 1.5 million people, with plans to further reduce this number, or Scotland, with around 340 police stations for a population of 5.2 million.

In contrast to previous Governments, this Government has chosen to increase the effectiveness and efficiency of the Garda Síochána by enabling and supporting those measures which are bringing the organisation, structures and service delivery in the Garda Síochána up to the highest possible standard. The objective of consolidating our network of Garda stations is to ensure efficient and effective policing, and this strategy is working. Smart policing is not simply about bricks and mortar. It is about community policing and the visible presence of gardaí on our streets. A total of 39 Garda stations around the country were closed in 2012 and, as a result of this and other measures, more than 160 gardaí were freed up for front-line operational duties. The consolidation of the stations will also mean that where they are State-owned, they will be available for alternative community use or disposal.

Having set out the general context, I will turn to the specific situation in Stepaside. Stepaside is in the Blackrock District in the Dublin Metropolitan Eastern Division and it is approximately eight kilometres from the district headquarters at Blackrock Garda station and six kilometres from Dundrum Garda station. There are 34 members of the Garda Síochána assigned to the Stepaside station. The Commissioner has indicated that these members will, as far as possible, remain in the Blackrock District and be transferred to Dundrum Garda Station. The freeing up of gardaí from desk duties in Stepaside Garda station will increase the number of gardaí available for front-line policing, to the benefit of the community in Stepaside.

Deputy Ross has quite an odd view of policing. He seems to think that all of the gardaí simply sit in the station and do nothing until someone telephones them, as he made reference to the distance from Dundrum. Clearly, members attached to that Garda station will assume policing duties across the entirety of the area, including Stepaside; gardaí will be out in patrol cars, and there will be more gardaí available to engage in policing rather than sitting behind desks in the building.

Local Garda management will shortly commence the process of engaging with staff interests and local communities through partnership processes, the joint policing committees and other forums to advise them of the revised policing arrangements for the Stepaside area. The Commissioner has clearly indicated that he is confident that the implementation of the restructuring proposals contained in the 2013 policing plan will not lead to any diminution in the service provided by An Garda Síochána. The move towards more centralised services will facilitate the introduction of enhanced patrolling arrangements which, in turn, will provide increased Garda visibility as well as maintaining existing Garda links with communities throughout the country. The objective will be to ensure that the best possible policing service will continue to be provided in our communities. The Commissioner has concluded, and I fully agree with him, that resources could be better deployed by closing some Garda stations and reducing the public opening hours of others at off-peak times. As a consequence of additional gardaí being freed up from desk duties, there will be an increase in the number available for front-line policing duties.

Despite our financial difficulties, we were able in 2012 to acquire 213 new Garda vehicles at a cost of €4 million. I am very pleased that in 2013 a further €5 million will be made available for the purchase of additional Garda vehicles. The modernisation of the Garda fleet is a crucial part of ongoing reform. It is crucial to good policing in local communities and gardaí being available to patrol local communities. This applies to the Stepaside area as it does to other areas in Dublin South. I am determined, as Minister for Justice and Equality, that the resources of our Garda Síochána are used in the best and most effective and efficient way possible. I believe that Commissioner Martin Callinan is doing an excellent job in bringing about the modernisation and reform of An Garda Síochána and I support him in his work. Insofar as any member of Stepaside Garda station has said it will be more difficult to police the area, it is not the view of the Commissioner. Let us be frank about this. If any individual has a difficulty with criminality in his or her area, he or she telephones the Garda.

It is not the garda at the end of the telephone sitting at a desk who rushes out of the Garda station to provide the necessary policing assistance. That is provided through gardaí in patrol cars getting to the location where difficulties have occurred. There is nothing occurring which will in any way result in a diminution of the policing efficiency in Stepaside. In fact, the Stepaside community will benefit from the fact there will be new and more modern patrol cars available, and from the general increase in the number of gardaí available to engage in front-line policing, whether in crime prevention or detection.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I do not know whether the Minister has ever driven from Dundrum to Stepaside or Kilternan during rush hour. As he stated, it is between 6 km and 8 km away. The problem with moving people further away is that they are not necessarily going to be able to reach the scene of a crime as quickly. This is common sense. The problem with the attitude of the commissioner and the authorities on all of these matters is that we always get explanations which are in terms of structures and vehicles. The gardaí will spend more time in their cars but this debate is about people and communities. It is no accident that 350 solid people turned up last Monday night fearful of the loss of a pivotal part of their community. They did so because they see the local garda and the local Garda station not only as part of their protection and security, which undoubtedly they are, but also as part of the community. One of the gardaí said quite specifically that it is important to have gardaí in an area so that children grow up to see them on the beat walking around and belonging in the area. This belonging is important so that it is part of them.

I understand the argument the Minister is making in terms of structures, but it is meaningless in terms of people. It is also meaningless in terms of what people feel about their community and what the people of Stepaside and the surrounding area feel is being removed from their community. Will the Minister, in deference to these people, meet a group from the community who want to express their views on this issue? I will bring them in to meet the Minister so he can hear what they have to say.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Ross has trumped Deputy Mathews on the delegation.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I assure Deputy Ross I am well able to meet people from my constituency without it being necessary for him to troop them in to me. Deputy Ross well knows he is choosing to ignore what I said earlier. He seems to have a very odd view of policing. He seems to think a large number of members of the Garda Síochána sit in Dundrum Garda station waiting for a call. This is not what policing is about. Deputy Ross chooses to making an argument with no credibility. I reiterate what I said earlier. This frees up gardaí for front-line policing and reforms the Garda station network. What it does, and what it will continue to do, is ensure the Stepaside area, as well as all other areas in south Dublin, are properly policed, patrol cars are on the roads and not parked in Dundrum Garda station awaiting a phone call and gardaí are on the beat engaged in community policing.

The difficulty with Deputy Ross's position on this issue, like so many others, is that he is a serial protester who is opposed to any innovation and reform and anything that could result in the more efficient use of resources. In other areas he castigates the Government for not being efficient, but it is extraordinary how whenever something is done to introduce efficiencies he always has a reason to oppose it. I agree this is about people. It is regrettable that Deputy Ross called a meeting which was designed to create alarm. It was a meeting for his own political purposes. If Deputy Ross had an interest in me as Minister for Justice and Equality addressing the meeting he would have advised me of it and I would have been happy to have attended. I would not unilaterally intrude on a personal meeting which he arranged.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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It was a public meeting advertised in the constituency. The Minister would not go to a public meeting; he must be invited.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It suited the Deputy to arrange it in that way because it was a crass piece of local party politics-----

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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The Minister would not go to a public meeting because he must be invited.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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-----designed for his own personal benefit-----

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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The Minister is a member of the public as well.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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-----and designed and intended to create alarm and concern for individuals who have no reason to be alarmed or concerned because what we are doing, and I reiterate it, is using our police resources wisely. No crime is prevented by the existence of bricks and mortar and a garda sitting in a Garda station. Crime is prevented by gardaí being out on the beat, by patrol cars being out and available and having the facility to come to people urgently when difficulties arise. The reality in this case is that this is part of crucial reform which will ensure for people in Stepaside they have the policing service to which they are entitled, and that we used to the maximum possible extent our well-trained Garda force to engage in policing and not be confined to desk duties.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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The Minister will have to be invited to more meetings. The Minister may not realise it but he is a member of the public. He does not have to be invited. Members of the public are invited-----

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Obviously I struck a nerve. Deputies Ross and Joe Higgins have a lot in common. They are serial protestors about everything.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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The Minister is not a member of the public any more. He is way above it.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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If Deputy Ross wished me to attend the meeting he could have arranged it and I would have been there.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is great to see Deputy Ross getting into the old parish pump politics.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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The Minister for Justice and Equality; God almighty.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Ross is making a fool of himself again.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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And he is Minister for Defence.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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If he were really interested in the issue he might have tabled a parliamentary question on it.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Minister for nothing.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is extraordinary it took the Deputy two weeks to raise this issue in the House. Other Deputies raised issues about Garda stations during Question Time.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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We will have a special meeting for the Minister and we will issue him with a gold-plated invitation.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is probably inconvenient to the Deputy to be in the House for Question Time because he is so rarely here participating.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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We will move on to the next Topical Issue raised by Deputy Timmy Dooley.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I would be very happy to let two intellectual beasts of the House-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I would not.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Then I will not do the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's job for him, but it would be entertaining to hear the two intellectual beasts deal with local parish pump issues. It is great to hear them in touch with reality for a change.