Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

One of the areas that has escaped any significant attention in the fallout from the budget has been the very savage and targeted approach to colleges of further education in terms of an attack on their pupil-teacher ratio and in the reduction of a variety of allowances to students. The two-point increase in the pupil-teacher ratio for these colleges will have a savage impact on the colleges and their students, leading to the loss of 200 whole-time equivalent posts. In reality on the ground up to 50 teachers could lose their positions, many of them part-time, in colleges doing specialist courses in cloud computing, horticulture, sound, music, dance and others areas across the board. They are all courses related to progressing young people from unemployment to employment.

If the Taoiseach cared to listen he would know that with a very high unemployment level among young people of 30%, this cut makes absolutely no sense. It targets second-chance education and those who want to go back to education to get a chance of work or to progress to third level. It is shameful that in addition to the pupil-teacher ratio increase, the budget will also reduce capitation rates for the colleges and will reduce allowances for people on vocational training opportunity schemes and Youthreach programmes. These are the very programmes that were designed to help young people come through the educational sector through alternative programmes and pathways. The Government has also abolished the cost of education allowance.

I know the Fine Gael Party will always protect the wealthy. However, fundamentally what is the purpose of the Labour Party in government-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fixing what Fianna Fáil had broken.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----if it can stand over a cut to a sector-----

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Cleaning up the mess after Fianna Fáil.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Again.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----that does the most for those who lost out through mainstream education and who want a second chance? We built up this sector over the past 15 years-----

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy's party built too much.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----in terms of grants for colleges and for students.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

While the Minister, Deputy Howlin, might smile, it is not a laughing matter.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fianna Fáil broke the-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is not a laughing matter for the students-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy has a brass neck.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----who are watching this morning. The most the Minister, Deputy Howlin, can think about is having a good guffaw over the plight in which they find themselves.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is typical of how out of touch Ministers have become since going into government.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy has a short memory.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Taoiseach to outline to the House whether an impact assessment was carried out on the effect of the increase in the pupil-teacher ratio on these colleges and the cuts affecting these students who are participating in those programmes. If so will the Government publish that impact assessment and if not will the Taoiseach commit at a very minimum this morning to have such an impact assessment carried out?

A Deputy:

Another report.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy's charge of certain parties looking after certain sectors is nothing short of disgraceful. The change from 17:1 to 19:1 in the PTR the Minister announced in the budget takes effect next September. The Minister has already asked every VEC CEO to carry out an impact analysis on what this will mean for courses and to report to him.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

After the fact.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Of course that will be debated fully here in the Oireachtas.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They will be appointing consultants.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is an important element to education. The answer to the Deputy's question is "Yes". The impact analysis has been requested by the Minister from each CEO and will be reported to him and debated in the House subsequently.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach did not answer the question. The answer is not "Yes". The Taoiseach has just told us that the Minister did not carry out an impact assessment before making the cut. The Taoiseach has just said he will ask all the colleges or VECs. The principal of Ballyfermot Senior College said last evening that 10% of her staff will be cut. Ballyfermot Senior College is a fantastic college that has produced students who have gone all the way to Hollywood and won Oscar awards in animation.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy will be intending to do a bit of that himself.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This sector has been the most innovative of all in responding to the crisis. Likewise Coláiste Stiofáin Naofa in Cork and the City of Cork VEC have already said they will lose up to 50 teachers as a result of this cut.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A question, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Despite what the Taoiseach has said, it is not disgraceful that I have highlighted this issue this morning and pointed out that the Labour Party, which should be protecting the less well-off and those who want to avail of second level education-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could we have a question, please?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----should be doing something or standing up for something. That is quite a legitimate point for me to make.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

However, it is not legitimate for Deputies to be laughing and guffawing about a very serious cut affecting students which will make a difference to their capacity-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could we have the Deputy's question, please?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----to get to work and to progress in education. We have numerous examples of students down through the years who may not have come through mainstream effectively or gone to third level, but these courses were labour-market related-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----focused on jobs and giving people skills and the capacity to gain jobs in a range of areas and have been very effective and successful.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is another unfair targeting of a sector of society that should be helped in accordance with the commitments in the programme for Government and not targeted in a very savage way as the Government has done without any thought or preparation as the Taoiseach has now acknowledged.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Martin never listens. I said his comment was disgraceful in suggesting any party is looking after a particular segment of Irish society. The party he leads from the days of the Galway tent with millionaires and all that-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach's party was not too bad itself.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fine Gael was more upmarket in those days. It was Fairyhouse for Fine Gael.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is the comment I said was disgraceful. It was disgraceful for him to say that. Let us deal with the issue here.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We might deal with the issue.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Was the Taoiseach teeing off with the Quinns at one of Fine Gael's golf classics?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The pupil-teacher ratio in secondary schools is 19:1. The pupil-teacher ratio in colleges of further education was 17:1 and will be 19:1 from next September. The issue of devolution of responsibility of authority has been made by the Minister to the chief executive officers-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is such a con job - such a dishonest proposition. The Government does that - it devolves cutting.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

----- to make the choices as to the nature and quality of the courses to be pursued. The impact of the decision made by the Minister is to bring the pupil-teacher ratio for colleges of further education into line with those of secondary schools.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a different sector

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As a former teacher, the Deputy should know it is not the pupil-teacher ratio that makes the real difference here.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach does not understand the sector.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is the quality of the person standing in front of the class that counts.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach does not understand the sector.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

One can produce reports that are the height of this roof that will show one but Deputy Martin never listens and that is what has him where he is.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach does not answer the questions he is asked.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The most important ingredient of education is parental and student interest and the quality of the teacher and the teaching that is given in the first place.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Courses will be lost over this.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is why the Minister for Education and Science has given the devolved responsibility to chief executive officers to allow them to make choices regarding courses and their nature. This will be brought back to him. The pupil-teacher ratio in colleges of further education will be the same as that in secondary schools.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That kind of response is what is driving people mad. It is driving people over the edge.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This sector, as maintained, is important but then Deputy Martin never listens.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I want silence for Deputy Adams.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Dáil will break tomorrow for the Christmas festivities and most of us will go back to warm homes and our families. We are the very lucky ones. For many citizens, this Christmas will be especially tough because of the Government's austerity policies. The ESRI's assessment of budget 2013 confirms that once again, the poorest have been hit hardest. It is not just those on the margins who are faoi bhrú. Lower and middle income families are not being protected by the Government.

This morning, we heard news that the Bank of Ireland, in which the State has a 15% share and which has received nearly €5 billion of citizens' money, is to hike credit card fees by up to 4%. This is a bank that is cashing in on people when they are most stretched at Christmas time. The Taoiseach is aware that surveys by the credit union movement indicate that people can take up to six months to repay Christmas spending. Many people are stuck in the mire and struggling to pay back debt accumulated over years. Some people are forced to use credit cards to pay for necessities. I spoke to a woman this morning who told me she received a letter from the bank telling her that at her current rate of payment, she would not clear her credit card debt until 2045. All this is heaping pressure on citizens who are already struggling. Does the Taoiseach agree that the hike in credit card fees is wrong? Have he or his Government been in contact with the banks about this? What steps does he intend to take to deal with these banks which have levied mortgage increases and new account and credit card fees?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand that Bank of Ireland announced last October that it intended to introduce a range of increases in interest rates with effect from 18 December 2012. The credit card purchase interest rate will increase to 17.8% variable APR, while the rate for the classic credit card will increase to 19.9% variable APR. The rate for the remaining number of personal credit cards will increase by 0.7% APR with effect from 18 December 2012. No increase will be applied to the student credit card and there will be no change to the introductory or cash advance variable APRs for Bank of Ireland personal credit cards.

This bank is owned by private investors with a 15% share held by the Government and this area is not regulated by Government. I can confirm that the Government is in constant contact with the regulator in the Central Bank to ensure that he is happy he has the facilities, authority and power he needs in regulating the financial sector. This issue is very difficult for many people who have run up huge credit card bills. The economic indicators show that for the first time in a number of years, we have had three consecutive quarters of growth. The more we can proceed in that direction, the more competition there will be in the credit card area.

I do not like this but the Government is in constant contact with the regulator. I have written to him on a number of occasions stating that if he considers that he should have more appropriate powers, the Government will respond to that. This is a bank owned by private investors. We want it to be out there in the market. The Government has a 15% shareholding and this area is unregulated.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is the Taoiseach's usual response when we raise a question about the banking sector. He says he cannot do anything about it but what he really means is that he will not do anything about it.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We deal with the banks in a different way than Sinn Féin did.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government rushed through the Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill at 11 p.m. last night. There were over 80 amendments but only one was taken.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a separate issue. Does Deputy Adams have a supplementary question?

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am coming to that. Ná bí ag cur isteach orm arís. The point I am making is that there is one rule for the banking sector and another for citizens. This is the banks' Christmas present, while the family home tax is the Government's Christmas present. The Taoiseach says he cannot do anything about this but has he spoken to the public interest directors? I understand this Government has done nothing. I received a written response from the Minister for Finance which stated that I would be aware that the Government has not appointed any public interest directors to the boards of the covered banks since taking office. Who are the public interest directors? Lo and behold, the public interest directors include Mr. Dick Spring, late of this parish; Mr. Joe Walsh, late of Fianna Fáil; and Mr. Ray MacSharry.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Has the Taoiseach asked these public interest directors who are there to protect the public interest and if not, why not?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could we have Deputy Adams's question?

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Taoiseach intend to call the banks into the Economic Management Council or is it just a matter of, once again, wringing his hands and saying he can do nothing or, as I put it, is doing nothing about this sector?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Minister for Education and Science remarked, we treat banks differently than Sinn Féin did in the past. This is an area that is not regulated. It is an issue in respect of which the Government is in constant contact with the regulator in the Central Bank. On behalf of Government, I have written to the regulator stating that if he requires further or more appropriate powers, the Government will respond to that. It is not a case of saying the Government will not do anything. It is a case of saying that if the regulator requires further facilities, the Government will respond to that. This is not a case where the Government regulates the interest rates applicable to credit cards.

Our job as a Government is to restore our economy to good health. It is heading in that direction and for the first time in a number of years, we have had three consecutive quarters of growth. I do not like a situation where this announcement was made by the banks three or four days before Christmas but this is a commercial entity that has made this choice. We will respond to the regulator who is completely independent if he requires or requests further or more appropriate powers from Government. We want an economy that is running well and growing in health and that as a consequence further competition will enter the market from those who deal with credit cards. I repeat this on a regular basis. It is not easy for people not to run up bills on credit cards and it is a well-known fact that some people have run up extraordinary bills and these interest rates are high. One can advise people not to do that and yet circumstances dictate that it happens. Clearly, MABS is well used and available to everybody. The area is not regulated by Government but we are prepared to respond if the regulator requires further facilities or what he might consider more appropriate powers for himself.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yesterday, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine joined other European Ministers with responsibility for fisheries in Brussels to determine fishing quotas for the next year. This week the Minister warned that the Council will be one of the most difficult in years. Ireland has a long history of being treated unfairly in this area and these threats are nothing new for fishing communities. The EEC effectively strong-armed us into giving away our rights to fish our own waters when we joined. These negotiations could affect the ability of the Council to agree quotas for mackerel, blue whiting and herring in 2013 and would also affect where Irish fishing vessels can fish next month. If this is not enough, they also face double-digit cuts in many quoted stocks which are vital for the Irish fishing industry. These proposed reductions would amount to a direct income cut for fishermen of €17 million and the full cost when the effect on fish factories and others are factored in is approximately €54 million, with up to 500 full and part-time jobs being put under threat.

Year after year fishermen live in uncertainty as to where their futures lie and they are in a constant battle to make a modest living. The bureaucracy of the fishing industry at EU level is taking its toll not only on fishermen but on fishing communities and the country as a whole. A fundamental change in EU fishing policy is what is essentially required to ensure the sustainability of our communities in the long-term guaranteeing a fair share for Ireland. What will the Government do to support coastal communities which could lose so much of their income? Does the Taoiseach have a contingency plan in place in the event of a breakdown and the loss of so many jobs?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Pringle should bear in mind that Ireland is one of the few countries which has managed to get into a strong position for whatever Minister has attended for a number of years. The reason for the success of Irish Ministers with responsibility for fisheries in recent years at negotiations in Brussels, which take place at the end of every year, is because of the quality of the scientific analysis the Minister brings to the table. The scientific analysis is carried out by the Marine Institute based in Oranmore in Galway. It is a fact that, being armed with exact scientific data, no Minister with responsibility for fisheries from here has come away from Brussels with a bad deal. These negotiations are ongoing and will finish towards this weekend.

Deputy Pringle asked about coastal communities. We must have a debate and an understanding that the level of production and fish required, based on the extraordinary growth in the world's population and therefore the requirement for food across the spectrum, is an issue central to the fishing negotiations. An application lodged for a major fish farm development off the Aran Islands in Deputy Grealish's constituency is being heavily objected to, with another possibly to follow off the west coast. These matters need to be considered rationally. The figure projected for growth in jobs onshore is 500 and this would make an enormous impact to coastal communities. This is an issue that needs to be debated here, by the planning authorities and by those dealing with environmental regulations.

It is clear that in the coming ten to 15 years the level of fish production required will be extraordinary and it will not be got from fishing in the sea because the levels of fish are not there. In this sense what the Minister is doing this week is basing his negotiations on the best scientific data and analysis we have ever had because of the exceptional quality of the data from the Marine Institute. I am sure the Minister, Deputy Coveney, will articulate this very strongly during the negotiations. While we are all concerned about the fishing industry in general there are matters we need to examine. Deputy Pringle may have an influence on this himself. We should be able to restore the fisheries off the west and north-west coast in the same way as previous Governments, did with the support of the fishing interests in the restoration of the Celtic Sea and the fishing boxes which apply there. We should consider this issue for the future interest of fishermen and their incomes and livelihoods.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is no doubt the quality of the scientific evidence has improved and it is aiding us in our negotiations. However, the fact is that the Common Fisheries Policy is recognised as a failed policy throughout Europe. Focusing on making the best of this failed policy is a zero sum game for the fishing industry. What we need is to focus on totally changing the overall policy and getting a fair share for our fishing communities. There is potential in aquaculture, but many communities still depend on fishing and should be supported. The potential for the economy as a whole is very significant. Countries such as France do not catch their quota in its own waters but we cannot increase ours. Fishermen end up having to dump more fish than they can land because of this and because of the unfairness and imbalance built into it from the historical situation. Will the Government consider examining the policy on a broader basis and attempt to change the historical situation to allow coastal communities remain viable?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Pringle is well aware there has been serious overfishing by the Faroe Islands and Iceland and this has led to calls by Ireland at EU level to have sanctions imposed. In the context of restoration of fisheries off the coast we need co-operation here and a strategy and plan to let nature take its course and build up those stocks where fishing can apply. The Minister allowed smaller boats to avail of fishing this year. Despite the very good decision made by a previous Government in respect of drift net fishing-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Am I hearing something?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes you are. Deputy Martin is listening at last and I thank him.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Very selective hearing.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is definitely getting close to Christmas if a former Government is praised.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Despite the decision on drift net fishing I hear allegations of illegal fishing off the coast of Deputy Martin's county. I do not know whether it is true. There is an issue in respect of the mortality rate among the Atlantic salmon population and it cannot be put down to drift net fishing. Whether it is carbon or another issue there is a need for scientific analysis. Speaking to those who know about these things there are concerns as the mortality rate is much higher than it should be.

This is an issue in which everyone has an interest. The development of aquaculture, taking into account environmental sensitivities and the opportunity for economic development and jobs, is one issue. There the restoration of fisheries with the assistance and co-operation of the fishing interests, and the scientific analysis which is ongoing. Will we be able to reverse the situation from 35 or 40 years ago? Not just now. However, we have defined Ireland's territorial ownership of underwater ground, which is 200 million acres as far as Rockall. On each occasion a Minister with responsibility for fisheries representing our country has been in Brussels in recent years it is the quality of the scientific data which has stood this country in very good stead and we will continue with this effort.