Dáil debates

Tuesday, 18 December 2012

5:10 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is proposed to take No. 11, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2012 (back from committee); No. 12, Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012 – Financial Resolution; No. 26, Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012 - Order for Committee, Committee and Remaining Stages. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn not later than 11 p.m.; (2) Nos. 11 and 12 shall be decided without debate; (3) in the event a division is in progress at the time fixed for taking Private Members' business, which shall be No. 93, motion re carers, Standing Order 121 (3) shall not apply and Private Members' business shall, if not previously concluded, adjourn after 90 minutes; (4) the Committee and Remaining Stages of No. 26 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 11 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and adjourn not later than 11 p.m. agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that Nos. 11 and 12, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2012 (back from committee) and Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012 – Financial Resolutions, respectively, shall be decided without debate agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 26, Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012 - Order for Committee, Committee and Remaining Stages, agreed to?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is not agreed.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That has to be agreed. It is Christmas.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They stated there was no problem in passing it.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I suppose we have had some of this discourse earlier this afternoon. On behalf of my party, I must object strenuously to the ramming through of this vital legislation. From time to time, the guillotine will be applied and we will accept, although we may protest, that there is an urgency to the moving of the legislation, but this legislation in its current form will place enormous burdens on middle Ireland - those who are already carrying a weight that is in many ways excessive.

There is no need for this legislation to be forced through in this way. For example, we could have come in here to debate it yesterday when the business of the House was concluded in advance of time but that opportunity was not given to us. We can come back here after the Christmas break to debate this and go through the 88 amendments.

The public have a right to expect that we will debate the legislation in a serious and conscientious manner, teasing through this legislation in the way that we as legislators are obliged to do.

5:20 pm

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy saw three years ago that this was coming down the road.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I put it to the Taoiseach earlier that he committed himself and his Government to political reform. We are now seeing the political reform, which is a budget that was decided upon by four members of the Cabinet. The outcome of that budget is being decided in this House on foot of guillotines which do not even allow Government backbenchers an opportunity to contribute. I respect the Taoiseach but I do not respect the manner in which he has broken his promises to the people on this matter of political reform. He is using an unprecedented majority to jackboot through this type of legislation.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Some hard words there, Taoiseach.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On behalf of Sinn Féin, I also want to oppose proposal No. 4. As Teachta Ó Fearghaíl said, we have discussed the fact that one in four mortgage holders is in distress with their mortgage. Hundreds of thousands of families are struggling to get by, yet this odious tax is going to be press-ganged through the Dáil. The Government is going to impose a tax on every single family home in this State.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Just like in the North.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We do not have a property tax in the North, my dear friend. However, why will we not have an opportunity to discuss this matter here? What is the Government afraid of? The Taoiseach chided Fianna Fáil because it rushed it through a previous budget before the weekend, obviously as part of its party management. The Government is doing exactly the same thing now. Why can people in this House who have a mandated position and want to argue their proposals not get an opportunity to do so? Despite all the talk, in every single session yet another promise in the programme for Government bites the dust. We saw that happen again today. Why can there not be a full debate? This tax is not going to come until next summer, so why can we not have it discussed in some detail?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This extremely cynical and undemocratic attempt to ram through the property tax will not save the Taoiseach, as he hopes it will, from the popular revolt next year when people have this unfair tax imposed on them. The level of popular resistance and boycott that we saw concerning the household charge last year will be even greater and far more terrifying for the Government.

Despite the forlorn effort on the Taoiseach's part to try to forestall protest, none the less this is an extremely cynical exercise. There are 159 sections in the property tax Bill. By anybody's standards this is among the most important legislation this Government will ever put through the House. It will affect virtually every citizen in the country. There are a hell of a lot of details involved in the new powers it gives to Revenue to seize money at source from ordinary workers and social welfare recipients. It will have significant economic implications in terms of the burden it will impose on low and middle-income families. It will also potentially have a very damaging effect on the domestic economy, in addition to many more details, complexities and potential anomalies. Despite this, the Taoiseach intends to forestall that debate and squash those 159 sections into a couple of hours. We will be lucky if we get through seven or eight of them. It makes a farce and a sham of democracy, of this House and of its role in legislative scrutiny. It is cynical and dictatorial in the extreme.

The Taoiseach should lift the guillotine and at least allow for a debate on this measure. He should allow all amendments to be discussed. It can easily be done early next year because the property tax does not come into force until the middle of 2013. There is simply no excuse for this guillotine.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Better still, drop the planned tax.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are wasting time here. Deputy Ó Fearghaíl has spoken about jackboot tactics.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, big boot tactics.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Adams has spoken about family homes. Obviously, everybody will contribute in some shape or other to the property tax. Thankfully, the majority of people contributed to the household charge. I would remind those who did not, however, that they will be required to meet the household charge and half of the property tax next year. It is unfair of those who can quite easily pay, including some Members of this House, but who have not bothered to do so.

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Stick to the Bill.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The mechanics of this have been organised by the Revenue Commissioners. There will be ample opportunity in a variety of ways for people to contribute to the property tax. Those who qualify under the conditions for deferral will have that available to them as well.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will go the way of Captain Boycott on this.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will assume the Presidency of the European Union on 1 January.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

God help you.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are 1,600 meetings to be conducted across the whole of Government, for all Ministers, including dealing with the European Parliament, sectoral matters and so on.

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What about the people at home?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please, Deputy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will not hold the EU Presidency again until 2024 or 2026, so in that sense we have to move on. This was explained to the Whips at their last meeting. Therefore, regrettably on this occasion, I want to move on, deal with the Bill and complete all Stages of it.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We do not want the pesky natives bothering the EU.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 26 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 84; Níl, 46.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Seán Ó Fearghaíl and Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

Níl

Question declared carried.

5:35 pm

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are five minutes remaining. I will not be calling on too many Members as I do not want to eat into the time available for the Bill for which we have just provided.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Do not forget the Technical Group.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government has made a decision on the A, B and C v. Ireland expert group report. When will we see the legislation and regulations promised? Will the content of that legislation address the issue of suicide?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government decided today to choose option D as set out by the expert group, which is legislation and regulation. The process will involve information hearings by the Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children on either 7, 8 and 9 January or 8, 9 and 10 January. After that, the heads of a Bill will be prepared and sent to the Oireachtas committee for discussion. When the Oireachtas committee concludes its discussions and it returns here, the details of the regulations that would be required will be published simultaneously with the legislation so that everybody will have the fullest information about all the issues involved.

This matter is to deal with the clarification of the Constitution and therefore the law by the Supreme Court in the X case. It includes the question of suicide arising from the X case in cases where there is a threat to the life, as distinct from the health, of the mother. That is why I want everybody in the House to be able to contribute to this and put in place legal certainty and regulation in an area that is unregulated. There is no intention for this to be seen as some sort of abortion on demand or abortion replacing contraception.

The Deputy asked when the legislation will be published. It will be prepared after the information hearings of the committee dealing with health. The heads will be discussed by the Oireachtas committee. The legislation will only be published in conjunction with the regulations which will become effective once the Bill is put through the House. I want everybody to be able to contribute to the process in a mature, sensitive and as comprehensive a fashion as is possible.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Cuirim fáilte roimh an ráiteas sin. I welcome the statement and the announcement that the Government will legislate for the X case in the new year. Bearing in mind the conversation we had earlier, it would have been appropriate for the Taoiseach to make that announcement in here. I know it is a difficult issue for people to deal with, not least the women of this State and island.

Will the Taoiseach make time in the new year for the Dáil to debate the de Silva report on the Pat Finucane case? I wrote to the Taoiseach and asked if he would review all correspondence in the Department of the Taoiseach, particularly under the tenure of the late Charles Haughey, regarding information that may have been put into the Department by the late Mr. Paddy McGrory a month before Pat Finucane was killed and immediately afterwards. Specifically, I ask that we have the opportunity to debate in some detail the de Silva report.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, this is an important report. I spoke to British Prime Minister Cameron and Geraldine Finucane last week on the publication of the de Silva report. I have already asked the Whip that at the appropriate time when the Dáil returns in the new year, we should make time available for a discussion on the de Silva report. I have received the Deputy's letter and will give it consideration before replying properly.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Housing Bill deals with the regulatory framework for housing. Is the Taoiseach aware that last night the residents of Priory Hall stood in the cold and rain and that this is the second Christmas where they will have no homes? The families are suffering extreme hardship. I urge the Taoiseach to urge the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government and people directly involved in the mediation process to get on with the job and support those families.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is a legacy issue of great concern to the people involved. The Minister is awaiting a response from the judge in this case and obviously cannot interfere with that process. There has been some progress and if we can get the pieces in place, the process may be quickened. For the Deputy's information, the Minister is also in discussion with the Minister for Finance about a substantial loan from institutions to deal with the pyrite matter, another legacy issue that has caused much angst for people who bought houses and found them literally cracking around them. That is a matter about which there is discussion between the Departments of Finance and Environment, Community and Local Government, with a view to the problem being rectified in 2013. That should be good news for those people.