Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans for the closure of Garda stations in 2013; his plans for Garda recruitment; his plans for the total number of Gardaí in 2013, 2014 and 2015; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [55542/12]

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The policing plan for 2013, which I laid before the House last week, outlines the Garda Commissioner's proposals for the continued reorganisation and consolidation of the Garda station and district network. Until this year, the Garda station network was essentially the same as the RIC network which obtained in 1922. Such a large-scale static deployment of resources is no longer appropriate, particularly as the transport and communications infrastructure has been transformed. The Garda Síochána has a class-leading police computer system, a state-of-the-art digital radio system and a transport fleet which is currently receiving significant investment. The new Garda roster being piloted at present provides a better match between Garda availability and policing demand. All of these developments enable the Garda Síochána to be more mobile and flexible and to deliver a more effective policing service.

We must be honest about the level of policing service that was capable of being provided from the stations that were and are to be closed. Of the 100 stations to be closed next year, 98% are open only on a part-time basis, 94% are open for three hours a day or less, 88% are served by 1 garda and only 5% are served by three or more Garda personnel. Of the 39 stations closed this year, eight were not actually open at all and had been surreptitiously closed under the watch of previous Governments. Their closure was a paper exercise which simply recognised reality. Following the closures in 2013, there will still be 564 Garda stations in the State. This will still be significantly more per capita than is the case in comparable jurisdictions, such as Northern Ireland, where there are 86 stations for a population of 1.5 million, and Scotland, where there are approximately 340 stations for a population of 5.2 million.

Some critics have complained that the station closures will save only small amounts of money, but this completely misses the point. The point is to make the best use of our well-trained gardaí and, in particular, to maximise the amount of time they spend performing operational duties. The Garda Commissioner, in his professional judgment, has concluded that a more effective and efficient policing service can be provided through the proposals to close these stations and to merge 28 Garda districts into 14. These proposals, along with the other proposal to close the public counters in seven other stations at night, will free up gardaí for front-line service in the communities concerned. This is all the more important at a time of decreasing Garda numbers. It is worth recalling that it was the previous Government that undertook to reduce Garda strength to 13,000 as part of its commitment to the troika to reduce public service numbers overall. The previous Government also introduced the moratorium on public sector recruitment, the result of which has been that no trainee Garda has entered the Garda college since May 2009.

Current Garda strength is 13,450. This is supplemented by approximately 2,000 civilian support staff and 1,000 Garda reserves. I will remain in dialogue with my colleague the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform on the issue of Garda resources, but what is vital now is that the still-significant resources of the force are used with maximum efficiency and to the greatest effect. That is why the reforms being introduced by the Garda Commissioner are essential and should be supported by all Members of the House.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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When they come to write the political review of the year, Deputy Shatter will, as a result of how he disseminated this information on budget day last week, be dubbed the most cowardly Minister. It was an exceptionally cowardly act, in the middle of the busiest political day of the year, to announce the closure of up to 100 Garda stations throughout the country in the manner in which he did without affording Members any real opportunity to debate the matter in the House, other than by means of tabling parliamentary questions. That is why I tabled this priority question today. The Minister has missed the point completely. It is not a question of freeing up Garda resources and, in order that they might perform other duties, members of the force. Gardaí are already performing such duties. What is at issue here is the fact that many of the stations it is proposed to close are open only on a part-time basis. Such stations are there in order that the force might show a presence in communities, both urban and rural. People must realise that these closures do not just relate to gardaí and stations in rural areas. The presence to which I refer and the relevant Garda infrastructure are to be removed from communities. The deterrent they offer will also be removed as a result, which is regrettable.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy please pose a question?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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This is part of a larger agenda on the part of the Government, which has done the same with small schools and community welfare offices, has closed down bank branches and is merging credit unions. Essentially, this Administration is sucking essential services out of communities throughout the country.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy frame a question?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It ill behoves the Minister to cite what was done by previous Governments. In 2010, when he was Opposition spokesperson on justice, the Minister stated: "We presently have 14,500 members of An Garda Síochána and it is of crucial importance that the number be maintained". He went on to state that a reduction in this number would "obstruct the battle against crime" and said "I predict that tonight drug gangs will be toasting justice minister [Ahern]". The latter will also be drinking a toast of thanks to the Minister, Deputy Shatter-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy please pose a question to the Minister?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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-----for reducing the presence of An Garda Síochána throughout the country. The Minister has still not indicated what will be the minimum number of gardaí on the force. That number could potentially drop below 13,000.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I must call the Minister.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Up to 1,200 members of An Garda Síochána can retire in the coming 12 months.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I must call the Minister.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It takes two years to train new members.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Collins must conclude.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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I want to make a point.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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No, the Deputy may not do so. There are only six minutes per priority question.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It was exceptionally cowardly of the Minister to make the announcement in this regard on budget day.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should not try to engage in name-calling or use political bombast in order to cover up the reality that when in government, his party signed up to the agreement with the troika-----

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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As the Minister well knows, we did not sign up to closing Garda stations.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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-----and to reducing the numbers within the Garda Síochána to 13,000 by the end of 2013. In addition, his party did not have the courage and commitment to reform the Garda station infrastructure and network. Is the Deputy seriously suggesting that it would be in the interests of good policing for us to retain a police station network and a Garda structure based on decisions relating to locations, etc., which were made by the British Government in colonial times? Is he suggesting that, at a time when Garda numbers are being reduced as a result of the financial disaster that hit this country as a consequence of the appalling decisions made by his colleagues when they were in government, we should keep trained members of the force unnecessarily behind desks in buildings when they could be out policing local communities? Does the Deputy not have the decency to acknowledge that a large number of members of the force could contribute to the provision of front-line services but are currently unable to do so because they are confined to small Garda stations? Will he acknowledge that a station that opens for three hours or less in the morning does not make any substantial contribution to law enforcement or to protecting the community?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It is about providing a presence. Does the Minister not appreciate that?

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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In so far as the Deputy is alleging that there will be any diminution of Garda services, I must inform him that this has not been the case in the context of the closures that have occurred to date. There will instead be an enhanced service on offer as a result of the fact that members of the force will be available to communities.

Unlike my predecessor, I have made resources available. This year, for example, I spent €4 million on the purchase of 213 new vehicles in order to upgrade the Garda fleet. Some €5 million has been allocated to me for 2013 and this will allow for the purchase of a substantial number of additional vehicles.

It was perfectly appropriate and correct that the announcements to which the Deputy refers were made on budget day, the day on which the Estimates relating to the Department of Justice and Equality were published.

On that day we were having regard to the resources available in each Department under the terms of the Estimates and how the Department of Justice and Equality - which will have €62 million less in 2013 than in 2012 - along with the Garda Síochána, was to ensure that resources were wisely used.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It ill behoves the Minister to cite the example of Northern Ireland and Scotland as a reason to support this crazy decision which he knows is wrong. He also knows that 40% of the population of this country resides outside the greater Dublin area and it is they who will be most affected by this decision. He has also closed down Garda stations in the greater Dublin area in Stepaside, Kill-O-the-Grange, Rush and Whitehall, to name but a few. He should not tell the House that this decision is to do with smarter policing. He knows full well - the Garda Commissioner has referred to it - that this is a political choice. The Minister should not attempt to hang the decision on the Garda Commissioner by saying it was contained in the draft policing plan which he presented to him. The Minister had the option to accept, amend, reject or ask for a redrafting of that plan. We know that the considerations were not financial ones. We all know the figures.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Could the Deputy ask a question, please?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister's decision means he has removed the Garda presence from communities all over the country. If he thinks that is a positive policing innovation then he is completely out of touch. I reiterate that this decision had nothing to do with financial considerations. It was very cowardly of the Minister to announce these closures by way of e-mail. Why did he not come into the House where they could be debated?

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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We are now having a debate on the matter. I am sorry if the Deputy is so agitated and excited that he thinks it is cowardly of me to answer his questions-----

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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I am reflecting what communities think about it.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I think the wider community has far greater insight than the Deputy. The wider community understands a number of facts. People understand that we have an agreement with the troika on which we are dependent for public funding.-----

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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The closure of Garda stations is not in the agreement.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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One voice, please, Deputy.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I do not interrupt the Deputy. Perhaps he would do me the-----

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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There is nothing in the troika agreement about closing Garda stations.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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This is Question Time, Deputy Collins. The Minister has the floor.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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He should be truthful in what he is saying. He should stick to the facts.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy seems to believe it adds to the credibility of what he says if he just shouts across the floor. I ask the Deputy to do me the courtesy of allowing me to respond to him. The facts are quite simple. We are dependent on the troika. The agreement was entered into by his party. It envisages a substantial reduction in public expenditure. Like all Departments, my Department is affected. The Garda Síochána is also affected. The Deputy's colleagues when in government indicated that Garda numbers would be reduced to 13,000. They took no steps of any description to reform the Garda districts, the Garda network or to ensure that well-trained members of the force were available to engage in front-line policing. What we have done with the operational advice of the Garda Commissioner and on his operational recommendation ensures that we are maximising as much as possible the professional expertise of members of the force by making them available for front-line police services, making them available to local communities-----

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Closing down Garda stations is not making them available.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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-----and available to work in crime protection and crime detection. We have recognised a reality which the Deputy has failed to recognise, which is, that a single garda sitting for three or four hours during a morning in a Garda station does not contribute anything of major operational value to crime protection or crime detection. With a reduction in resources and in Garda numbers, we are using the expertise of the force to the maximum benefit of the community.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It means they will be sitting in community centres instead.