Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Bill 2012. The Bill primarily focuses on the changes that the Government has announced to Dáil constituencies.

I welcome that the legislation commits to respecting county boundaries where possible. This is important to me because the boundaries of County Limerick, which I represent, were not respected at all by the previous Constituency Commission. To facilitate the retention of six seats in County Kerry for this Dáil, 17,500 people were taken out of County Limerick and, essentially, disenfranchised. While this was seen as a cynical exercise by the people of Limerick, the reversal of the decision by the current commission was broadly welcomed.

Ironically, the last commission could not possibly be regarded as having had a political agenda or of fighting for one corner over another. Although it recommended six seats in Kerry and the then government failed to get one of them, had Kerry been a five seater, Fianna Fáil would probably have won one seat. In fairness, the people were spared that.

The reduction in the number of Deputies to 158 - within the constraints set out by the Constitution currently - together with the reduction in the number of councillors, the abolition of town councils and the proposed constitutional amendment on the abolition of the Seanad demonstrate the commitment by the Government to reducing the number of politicians and bringing about a slimmed down political structure. This should be welcomed. However, we need to ask what we expect of our political structure and how it needs to change and adapt to reflect what we want.

Yesterday, I saw the worst spectacle I have seen since I came into this House, where the independence of the Chair and of the position of Ceann Comhairle were openly and aggressively attacked. In my time as a member of a local authority, I never saw a spectacle like that to which we were subjected yesterday, where the acting leader of the Sinn Féin Party launched what can only be described as a totally unprovoked and unnecessary attack on the independence of the Chair and the Ceann Comhairle. Time should be afforded to that Deputy, by either the Government or the Opposition, to come into the House and apologise to it and the Ceann Comhairle for her behaviour. It was totally disrespectful not only to the position and the person who holds the position of Ceann Comhairle, but to the parliamentary position of the House also.

In terms of the political changes that have taken place, while there is no doubt the House has structures that are old and outdated and need to be changed, some of the initiatives the Government and the Government Whip have taken are welcome. These include the introduction of topical issues and the facility for backbench Deputies, whether from the government or opposition side of the House, to bring forward legislation. However, there is scope for further engagement with Opposition parties with regard to their view on how the Dáil could operate more effectively. To date, no proposal has come forward from the Opposition, but perhaps something will come from this discussion over the next couple of days.

Another issue that needs to be addressed with regard to how the House operates is the definition of what constitutes a party. Some people have it both ways. They are paid as Independent Deputies, but they operate as part of a party. They have a Whip structure and get time as a party and vote and operate as a party. They even kick people out of their group as a party and hold parliamentary meetings when they need to. However, they are paid as Independent Members.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Tá an Teachta caillte. He is lost in the woods.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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There is a huge anomaly in that regard. The foreign channel has a bad habit of breaking through across the air waves here. There is an anomaly and I urge the Minister to address that. The political parties in the Dáil must keep a set of accounts with regard to what they do with the Leader's allowance and these accounts must be audited and assessed annually. However, the same does not apply to a group which calls itself a Technical Group, operates as a party and votes as a party, but the members of which are paid as Independent Members. This is grossly unfair.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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When did we vote as a party? The Deputy is making a mockery of the House.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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The electorate has the right to know what way the Independent Members are spending their money. I must have touched a nerve, because all of a sudden the Independent Members have woken from their slumber.

The electorate has a right to know how their money is being spent. Essentially, that €43,000 comes on top of Deputies salaries of €86,000, for which they do not need to produce a single receipt.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What about the €1.6 million Fine Gael gets?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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These are the people who talk about austerity, household charges, VAT and so on, yet they have no problem taking this unvouched payment into their hands. If we are to have political accountability, we should start with that.

Another anomaly that has arisen is that we have a party in the Dáil, which claims to be an all-island party, which has six Members of a foreign parliament who never sit in that parliament. However, they receive, on average, £180,000 a year for those Members despite the fact they never take their seat. It is a great situation that people who do not turn up to work and do not represent the people who elected them draw these huge sums of money. Then, their colleagues come in and pontificate here about what the Government should be doing.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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On a point of order, could we remind the speaker that he is addressing the Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Bill 2012?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I do not need to be reminded of it. Some of the people who hold Dáil seats were former non-participating representatives in a foreign parliament and had no problem drawing the £180,000 allowance on offer.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is talking for the 32 counties.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely. I never believed in the partitionist politics of Sinn Féin, where it says one thing in this House and another thing in the North.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Tá sé ag magadh fúinn.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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What the Minister proposes in terms of boundaries must be looked at also in terms of local electoral areas. I urge him, when looking at the make-up of local electoral areas, to consider the rural counties. Councillors are serving rural electoral areas in constituencies throughout the country that are bigger than some Dáil areas and cognisance needs to be taken of this. I have often mentioned this in the House. Take for example County Cork. Currently, the number of electors in the Carrigaline electoral area would be totally different to the number in the Skibbereen electoral area because of the geographical multiplier applied. There is room there -----

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should not interfere with Cork or Limerick.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Or Tipperary.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I am only using Cork as an example.

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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Allow the Deputy continue and do not cause problems for him.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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It is unusual to be heckled from both sides of the House.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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On a point of order, will the Chair ask the Deputy if he is standing for Europe?

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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That is not a point of order. I ask the Deputy to continue.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy breaking through on the air waves there should be more concerned about Roscrea and Templemore than Europe.

With regard to the electoral area boundaries, there is an opportunity with this Bill to consider the size of electoral areas, which will be huge in some parts of the country. Cognisance needs to be taken of the size of areas councillors are expected to cover. My constituency of Limerick has grown and is probably one of the largest geographically in the country. Deputies in rural areas are under a lot of pressure in terms of the obligations on them to cover the constituency and offer a service. Deputies on all sides will appreciate this. Our councillors are also under intense pressure and they operate in a situation where the supports and resources available to them are limited. Therefore, I urge the Minister, when developing the boundaries for electoral areas to take on board the need to include a multiplier for geographical areas.

I welcome the fact the constituency of Limerick has been reformed to a proper structure committed to the boundary of the county. Deputy Olivia Mitchell raised the issue of the names of constituencies, in reference to Dublin South. There may be an issue in that regard with regard to the Limerick constituencies also, in terms of the county and the city, where a sizeable amount of a rural area has now become part of what is termed a city constituency. By and large the Government commitment in the programme for Government to reduce the size of the Dáil, to abolish the Seanad and to reduce the number of elected officials across the country must be welcomed.

However, it cannot all be about costs. It must also be about efficiency, but in a country that is in the financial situation in which we find ourselves costs must be a significant part of it. The savings the Minister proposes to make over the lifetime of the Dáil must be welcomed. How we account for and audit the expenditure of allowances in this House must also be examined, not just the expenditure of those in political parties but of those outside the political party structure.