Dáil debates

Tuesday, 27 November 2012

2:50 pm

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he plans to implement a tag off, tag on system to Dublin Bus for use of the Leap card as is in place for Luas users, in an attempt to reduce queues on buses. [52664/12]

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he will provide an update on the rollout of the Leap card integrated transport scheme in terms of numbers of active cards, journeys travelled and other usage statistics; if the difficulties regarding availability of top-up facilities has been resolved; his plans to extend the scheme or a similar scheme to commuters around Dublin, or nationwide; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52680/12]

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 98 and 125 together.

The questions relate to the Leap card public transport integrated ticketing system. Responsibility to develop, procure, implement, operate and maintain the integrated ticketing system in the greater Dublin area became the function of the National Transport Authority, NTA, with effect from 30 September 2010 in accordance with section 58 of the Dublin Transport Authority Act 2008. The Leap card scheme continues to prove popular with public transport users.  I encourage ever Member to have one. It is imperative that we show leadership. To date, more than 175,000 cards have been issued and, in October, 1.5 million journeys were completed using Leap cards.  The scheme has now handled in excess of 10 million journeys since launch and turns over approximately €2.5 million per month.

I understand from the NTA that Dublin Bus equipment has not been designed to handle tag-on tag-off. Adding this function would involve significant time and cost and could well require replacement of the full ticketing system on buses. Generally, it is considered impractical to require that passengers tag off as they leave buses, and particularly where buses are single door vehicles.  Tag-on tag-off would slow down journey times because passengers would be tagging off on the same machines that boarding passengers are using. For single door operations, this would increase the dwell time significantly for passengers and be a bad experience. I understand there are few examples internationally of tag-on tag-off smart card schemes on buses in metropolitan areas and none using single door vehicles. In other major cities using an integrated ticketing system,  they operate either a flat fare system or they use two-door bus vehicles. I understand the authority is undertaking a study to prepare a business case for the national roll-out of the Leap card.  However, this would require additional funding outside of the current capital programme.  It is also my understanding that difficulties regarding availability of top-up facilities have been resolved.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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The Leap card has been a good move for Dublin. It has offered a discounted and convenient way to use bus and rail services in the city on one ticket and we can see from the number of people who taken up the scheme how effective it has been. However, the one thing it does not do for bus users is help to speed up the loading and unloading of passengers at each stop. Luas users do not have to queue to ask the driver to key in their fare; they simply tag on and tag off. Leap card users on buses, as before when they used change, must queue with the majority of passengers to tell the driver their fare.

This means the Leap card has little or no effect on bus queues as the Rambler cards do.

3:00 pm

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Can we have a question, please, Deputy?

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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Dublin Bus loses money every year due to the gridlock that causes buses to be delayed. I am not convinced by the Minister's view that such a system would slow down buses; I believe it would actually speed them up. Is the cost an issue? Will the Minister re-examine this, as tagging on and tagging off with a Leap card seems to be effective on other transport services?

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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I have no doubt about the sincerity of the Deputy's question but from a practical point of view this will not happen. There is a cost issue, obviously, as well as an equipment issue which would require a complete overhaul of the bus fleet. The bus fleet would have to change, and there is no country in the world which has such a system unless it has doubled its fleet or has a standard fare. I would love to have a standard fare in urban areas, particularly in Dublin, but it is not practical given the economic situation, and I cannot say whether it would be practical at any stage in the future. Unless one or both of these changes happens, we will not be able to implement the Deputy's suggested system. It would cause serious issues for the financial situation of the bus companies. Furthermore, it would cause delays because people would be queuing at the same points getting on and off buses. We are trying to encourage as many people to use public transport as possible, hence the introduction of the Leap card. Any system that would devalue people's experience of using buses would be negative and I would not support it.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I do not see much difference between paying a fare getting on a bus and tagging on with a Leap card. One would be clocking on as one gets on the bus and then clocking off as one gets off. I am not convinced by the Minister of the cost implications of introducing such a system. Will he do a cost analysis of this? It would be interesting to see if it would be feasible.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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We could introduce such a system if we got down to a common fare across Dublin city and the greater Dublin area. That, however, is not going to happen in the short term. We would have to examine the fleet of buses to allow for tag-on and tag-off. The capital requirements would be so substantial that it would not be practical to introduce such a system. The current system is the best solution for Dublin city and the broader area. In addition, a number of substantial enhancements to the Leap card will be announced in the coming weeks and months, which I am sure the House will very much welcome.

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I did not hear any reference in the reply to my question about the difficulties regarding the availability of top-up facilities. Have these been overcome? Is it intended to extend the scheme? Internationally, the transport systems that really work are the ones that are simple to use and whose prices are within people's range. Ireland has a bad history of long-term planning in many areas. I know we are in a bad economic situation and there is limited scope to introduce new schemes. However, is a longer view being taken in terms of the introduction of such a tag-on and tag-off initiative when the current fleet is replaced? Is there forward planning for the public transport system, or is it just a case of short-term thinking?

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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In my reply, I outlined how it would not be possible to extend the Leap card scheme within the existing capital requirements. Given the fact that in the next year we will have broken the back of introducing the Leap card across Dublin city and the greater Dublin area, it could then be deployed countrywide, a move that I would very much support. However, it is not going to be achieved at the moment.

In my reply, I stated the top-up facility difficulties had been sorted out.

Several issues arose and they have been dealt with. We are thinking to the future. The new fleet being purchased in Dublin has double doors and we are considering that. It will take several years to renew the fleet given the capital situation. We are looking to improve the service and the use of double doors may provide options in the medium-term future.

Ultimately, changes in the operation of the Leap card system on buses will come down to either changing the fleet or a single standard fare throughout Dublin. That may be something that can happen. Certainly we are providing the infrastructure to make it a possibility in future should the economic circumstances exist.

3:05 pm

Photo of Eoghan MurphyEoghan Murphy (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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Has the Minister of State considered approaching Dublin City Council to have the dublinbikes system included in the Leap card system?

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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That is something we have looked into and we will be looking into it again in future. It would be a worthwhile development. Following the programme we have outlined to get the various services and products on the Leap card we have also investigated in a preliminary way the possibility of the Leap card being used for the bike scheme from a technological point of view and whether this is possible. It might be something we can develop in future.