Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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At last the truth has emerged in the form of substantial and comprehensive freedom of information documents which we received last Friday evening, not through any openness from the Minister, Deputy Reilly, the Taoiseach or the Tánaiste. They reveal how multi-million euro investments in primary care centres were selected by the Minister, Deputy Reilly, who essentially rode roughshod through the diligent and effective work of the former Minister of State, Deputy Shortall, and the HSE. They had previously selected 20 primary care centres in accordance with international criteria, based around the concept of a deprivation index, so that those areas of the country most in need, socially and economically, would get such centres.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy left an unholy mess behind. This is part of clearing it up.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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He is a Messiah. He will clear it up.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Under these three methods I want to see primary care centres-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is shambolic. There are no three methods.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Have you any job in Europe for him?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----being built, opened and used by people, thereby offering proper provision of primary care facilities throughout the country.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Send him off to Europe.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have many more than 20 to build.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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What did the people of Oranmore do to the Taoiseach?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Phil Hogan wanted Kilkenny. There was one for everybody in the audience at the end.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please show respect to Deputy McDonald.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The list of calamities around the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, continues to grow. At the weekend hundreds of people took to the streets of Castlebar, in the Taoiseach's constituency, to protest against the Minister's decision to cut home help hours. The Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, is on record as saying these cuts are not right. She made those remarks in response to the situation of Catherine Brosnan, who has had home help hours cut for her son, Christopher, who suffers from cerebral palsy. Catherine Brosnan is not alone. Very many parents throughout the State who have children with severe disabilities have seen their service cut or taken away entirely.

At the weekend there were the further revelations that the Minister unilaterally had added new locations in his constituency to the primary care centre list-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Which subject is the Deputy discussing?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----the evening before the announcement was made. For the past 18 months, the Minister has had a track record of unmitigated disaster. He closed public nursing homes while being up to his neck in the private nursing sector. He promised he would make savings in the areas of consultant contracts and generic drugs, and would recoup costs for private beds in public hospitals. Worse, he has imposed savage cuts on the most vulnerable in society.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is your question, Deputy?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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He mishandled the demands of the family of Savita Halappanavar in regard to an inquiry.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not believe the Deputy heard me. I asked the subject matter she was discussing.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am addressing the track record of the Minister.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. This is Leaders' Questions.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Allow me to put my question.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy put a question to the Taoiseach and had two minutes to do it. She is over time.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister's explanations in regard to the primary care centres are ludicrous and do not stand up to any scrutiny. Everybody knows that the position of the Minister, Deputy Reilly, is untenable. The dogs on the street know this. When will the Taoiseach come to this realisation and relieve Deputy Reilly from his position as Minister for Health?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is perfectly entitled to join her colleagues on that side of the House in tabling a motion four months in advance of being able to move it - if she wants to follow the shallow road of popularity.

In any Department there are difficulties and they will continue. The Minister for Health has taken on the task of cleaning up the most unholy departmental mess left behind by an outfit that put together all the health boards and imposed the superstructure of the HSE, which was palpably and patently unworkable. To make these changes in a time of enormous economic challenge is never easy. The cost base of the health system in this country is exceptionally high and this issue will continue to be dealt with. I commend those people working in the health system who have already made serious changes to the way they do their business, in rosters and implementing and maintaining front-line services under difficult circumstances. Nobody denies this.

The people who marched in Castlebar at the weekend-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Did you meet them?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----were very welcome and have every right to make a legitimate protest. I met the bogcutters in Loughrea the other night and they are also entitled to protest-----

A Deputy:

Was Luke there?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----as are other people who want to walk on the streets in regard to any concern they may have. However, as I told the people in Loughrea, they are not entitled to block the public road when people are going about their legitimate business.

The Minister, Deputy Reilly, has set out his strategy for dealing with the health system, namely, by changing the structures to bring about a situation where there will be universal health insurance and where the effort of everybody working in the health service will be to do more with less, as is happening. The idea is to bring about a situation where there will be health services across the board for young and old alike of which we can be proud. We have a long way to go on this. The Deputy has not made any constructive suggestion other than to mention dismissal of a Minister.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Very constructive.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In this country people usually decry lay people for their failures in finance or any other departmental area but when there finally is somebody who understands medical politics and has a clear strategy for where we should aim and be, he too is decried. I do not claim we are all perfect. We all make mistakes. However, the responsibilities of the Minister, Deputy Reilly, and the Ministers of State, Deputy Alex White and Deputy Kathleen Lynch, are such that they are the trio leading the enormously difficult changes in the Department of Health at a very challenging time. I commend them for their efforts.

This is not easy; it is difficult for many people. I asked the person who has responsibility for home helps in the western area how he is implementing these reductions. His perspective was that he eliminated any reduction in service to those who had to use hoists, were on palliative care or those who had only one hour's home help. Where there is a medical requirement for such a service it will continue to be given. It is not easy and is not as flúirseach as we would wish but changes must be made in the interest of getting this right for everybody and for the future.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not easy, certainly not for those people who are on the receiving end of what the Taoiseach called the strategy of the Minister. The families who are being hurt directly in the here and now by his cuts to home help hours are living a terrible reality and the Taoiseach appears to be either immune or indifferent to that reality. The Minister has a responsibility. He has a duty of care to citizens and a responsibility to act in a transparent, fair and accountable way but has done nothing of the sort. His actions in respect of the primary health care centres are the kind of stroke politics-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can I have the Deputy's supplementary question, please?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----that Fianna Fáil perfected over many years. He now follows in that dishonourable tradition. I do not choose to personalise this against an individual. I am saying very clearly that in Deputy James Reilly we have a Minister-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the Deputy's supplementary question?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----whose strategy is failing and who fails to meet even the most basic criteria-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not speech time. The Deputy is not listening to me.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----of openness and good governance.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will she please give me her supplementary question?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I can only presume that just as the Minister told us yesterday if he had it all to do again he would do it again in the same way, the Taoiseach is standing by him and is refusing to take any action.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please put your supplementary question.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I reiterate my question. What will the Taoiseach do about his Minister for Health in a scenario where he is so abjectly failing and where public confidence in him is so clearly lacking?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Before the Taoiseach takes his place, I want to read the following for the information of the House:

Under Standing Order 27 - which deals with Leaders' Questions - at the commencement of public business on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, the Ceann Comhairle may permit, at his or her discretion, a brief question not exceeding two minutes from each leader in opposition to the Taoiseach about a matter of topical public importance in respect of which the following arrangements will apply.

Will those responsible for asking Leaders' Questions please adhere to the standing order?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Allow the Taoiseach to reply.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not want to have to interrupt people on a continuous basis. A habit is growing in the House of asking multiple questions in one, which is not allowed and will not be permitted. I will not repeat this warning. Please respect the Chair or get the Whips to discuss the matter. If people want to change the Standing Orders let them do so but I have to apply the orders as they read.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for that clarification. I thought Deputy McDonald would welcome that Government is in a position to make announcements about the provision of primary care centres. I gave Deputy Martin the three headings that apply: direct funding, leasing arrangements and public private partnerships.

The decision in respect of public private partnerships is very clear. If there were only 20 centres on the list, we would run the clear risk of general practitioners not buying in to facilitating the servicing of their primary care centres were they to be built. This was the position at a number of locations throughout the country.

I would have thought that what we are doing here, which is part of the economic stimulus of €2.5 billion announced by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and relating to health, roads, education, justice and the major development that will be the Grangegorman centre, would be welcome. Deputy McDonald will understand that while there are 35 centres on the list, only 20 will proceed to be developed by means of public private partnerships. It is those 20 in respect of which there is competition, buy in and planning permission. In addition, all of the conditions are being measured up to in the context of these centres in order that the final 20 can be got across the line. It is not a case of stating that the 35 centres will be built, one after another. Some 20 centres that can be commenced and completed will be bundled together and will proceed by means of public private partnerships.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I do not welcome the reduction in home help hours. Neither do I welcome the Taoiseach's support for a Minister who proposes such cuts.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would have thought that even the Deputy would have welcomed that, particularly as she is a member of a party which was involved in closing 800 long-stay beds in Northern Ireland.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Will the Taoiseach consider sending a note of congratulations to the Greek Prime Minister, Mr. Antonis Samaras, on the stroke he pulled last night in having an enormous amount of Greece's debt implicitly written off? Indeed, Mr. Samaras described the deal as a great victory. It is time Ireland was in a position to claim - in the context of its own debt negotiations - a great victory. We have one important thing in common with the Greeks, namely, we both have unsustainable levels of debt. The Greeks seem to have worked this to their advantage but we seem to find it very difficult to do so. While Greece celebrates this great deal today, we sit on the sidelines as spectators.

Did the Taoiseach hear the chairperson of the Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee of the European Union state on "Morning Ireland" that, in light of the Greek deal, Ireland had been left with a raw deal on the promissory notes relating to the former Anglo Irish Bank? I understand the Taoiseach's refusal to accept advice from this side of the House to the effect that he should take unilateral action in respect of the Anglo deal. When such advice is offered by impartial and key individuals from within the European Union, however, it is time he listened. The deal done last night was spectacular and it implicitly writes off some of the Greek debt in the period 2016 to 2020. It will also will give the Greeks interest rates on some of their loans of 50 basis points, which is virtually nothing, and extends those loans. This is something which we have completely and utterly failed to achieve.

What does Greece have that Ireland does not have?

Tony McLoughlin (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Meltdown.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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General strikes.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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Sunshine.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Greece has eyeballed the EU and the IMF and we have not managed to do so.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Greece lightning.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow Deputy Ross to complete his questions.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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In light of the Greek deal, is the Taoiseach prepared to tell the European Union, the European Commission and the IMF that we will not be paying the promissory notes on 31 March next? If he did so, those entities would listen to us in the same way they listened to Greece last night.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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How is the Deputy's tour going?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Or indeed the way people are encouraged to pay €25 to see the Deputy play a scripted role at the Bord Gáis Éireann Theatre.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I freely paid for my ticket.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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Some tickets only cost a fiver.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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May we please revert to Leader's Questions?

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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We call shows like the one in question bucket meetings.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach has some-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Pay up. I do not know whether the show in question is a rewriting of a certain script and should be called "Four Angry Men".

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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There are two complementary tickets left if the Taoiseach wants them.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The position today is somewhat different from what which obtained some months ago when it was stated that Greece would default-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It did not have to do so.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Independent)
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It defaulted last night.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----that it would be driven out of the euro and that there would be a catastrophic situation here as a result. What we are discussing here is a decision that was made by eurozone Ministers which is designed to ensure that Greece will maintain its position as a member of the eurozone and will be able to work its way out of its difficulties. The position of Greece is entirely different from those of Ireland and Portugal.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Mathews has a different view.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have separated those positions in the past 12 months and it is recognised across the world that Greece is in a completely different position to Ireland. Deputy Ross inquired as to what Greece has which Ireland does not. The tax-free threshold there has been lowered from €12,000 to €5,000. A married couple with only one earner in Ireland only enters the income tax net at €25,750-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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This week.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and a single person does so at €16,500. The number of public sector job cuts in Greece will be 150,000 by 2015. Any public service reductions here were done on a voluntary basis. Monthly pensions above €1,000 in Greece will be cut by 20%, the minimum wage is being cut by 20%-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Answer the question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----from €751 to €600 per month. The Greek Government is obliged to raise €11 billion through privatisation by 2016. This money will solely be used to pay down debt.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is a boomerang.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The attendance of the Minister for Finance at yesterday's meeting in Brussels means that the decision that was made will not mean-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What are we going to get out of it? A hearing. Ráiméis.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----that Ireland will be a contributor in so far as Greece is concerned.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Ráiméis.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Ross will be aware that we contributed over €350 million in bilateral loans. We will not be required to return profits or interest in this regard. That is a recognition of the very different situation in which Greece finds itself.

For the Deputy's information, let me repeat that a great deal of work is taking place in terms of the preparation for the legal framework as a consequence of the decision on 29 June-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Live horse and you will get grass.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----to sever the link between sovereign and bank debt and in respect of the promissory notes with the ECB. It is the intention of the Minister for Finance, on behalf of the Government, not to have to pay the €3 billion that is due in March 2013. It is in this regard that discussions are continuing to take place with the European Central Bank. I noted Deputy Martin's comments on the conclusion of the European Council report to the effect that these are things which could be restructured quite easily. That is a bit Irish coming from a member of the Government which made the most extraordinary economic decision ever foisted onto the Irish people.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister beside the Taoiseach has had a few Irish moments of his own.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why did the Taoiseach and his party vote in favour of that decision?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It takes time, diligence and patience in order to obtain a sense of trust, confidence and belief from others to the effect that they should help us.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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If the Taoiseach listened to his party's banking expert, we would be in a completely different position. Deputy Mathews is a man of integrity.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That recognition has been achieved and we will continue with the discussions in order to bring about a situation where the level of debt to which Deputy Ross refers can be re-engineered in the country's interests.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Ross and ask for some order so that he might pose a question.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Deputy Ross is one of the four angry booksellers.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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My request applies to Members on both sides of the House.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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How many tickets would the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, like for the show?

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Deputy Ross is the most unlikely angry young man I have ever come across.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have called Deputy Ross.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Those on the Government benches are seeking free tickets.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I wish to respond in the first instance to Deputy Rabbitte for offering tickets to-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will not respond to him.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I assure the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, that there is a bigger audience at the Bord Gáis Éireann Theatre than there is here.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Yes, but we have heard what Deputy Ross has to say before.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Ross and his colleagues are having their own little version of The Gathering.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ross has 45 seconds left in which to pose a question.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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The difficulty is that we refer to Greece as occupying a special position and to Ireland also occupying such a position. Greece's special position has gained it some unique concessions. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether he regards - I would like to hear a specific reply on this - Ireland's debt as unsustainable?

Second, as a result, will the Taoiseach look for the same terms as Greece and not just park the Anglo Irish Bank promissory note? Will he now declare that we are not paying it? He was nearly there in what he said. Will he declare that Ireland will not be paying it on 31 March 2013?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The intent of the Government is to achieve agreement on a re-engineering of the promissory note relating to the former Anglo Irish Bank. It could be regarded as the replacement of a bank overdraft with a very long-term mortgage. That is the context for the discussions between the Minister for Finance and his officials and the European Central Bank with a view to arriving at a situation where we would not have to pay €3 billion in March 2013. We said before-----

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Will the Government refuse to pay?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Discussions are continuing with the European Central Bank. The Deputy will have heard the public comments by other political leaders, other Ministers for Finance, the European Commission and the IMF. There is an understanding of the very great challenge placed on the backs of Irish taxpayers. We want this to be understood. The objective of the Government is to bring about a re-engineering of that level of debt before March 2013. This objective is the subject of much discussion and I hope it can be achieved in the interests of the people and the country. It is well recognised that since Ireland was first out of the gate, a very significant burden was placed on the people. It is a case of following through on that recognition to arrive at a decision in the interests of the country. What happened in Greece provides a menu of decisions made about the situation in Greece.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is not a bad menu and they get to have dessert too.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That menu is there for all to see and examine. Ireland is in a different space in this regard. However, there is a general understanding of what has been done in the case of Greece. Our discussions are about a concession in a different area, a re-engineering of the promissory notes.