Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The reports of the premature and sudden death of Savita Halappanavar and her baby in University Hospital Galway are particularly tragic, harrowing and shocking to all concerned. We all extend our sympathies to her husband, Praveen, and their families at this sad time for them.

For decades Ireland has had and has always aimed towards the lowest maternal death rates in pregnancy and during childbirth. This has always been a fundamental aim of our country and our society. By any international standards we have one of the lowest maternal death rates in pregnancy and during childbirth, and certainly one of the lowest in Europe. That is cold comfort to Praveen Halappanavar this morning, however. It is because maternal deaths are so rare and this particular death is so shocking that I believe we need an independent inquiry outside of those already established, comprising personnel from outside the country, to establish the full circumstances of the death of Savita Halappanavar at University Hospital Galway. An internal inquiry in itself will not suffice. While the hospital group and the Health Service Executive, HSE, will conduct their inquiries, there is a precedent for a ministerial inquiry such as I have proposed.

Confidence in our maternity hospitals and services is paramount and absolutely essential. It is also important for the Legislature to be made fully aware of the circumstances surrounding this particular death as independently as possible so that informed analysis can take place. It is necessary, given the rarity of such deaths in our maternity hospitals. Does the Taoiseach agree that an independent inquiry, conducted outside the group of hospitals in question and the HSE, is required?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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First, I would like to extend our sympathy to Praveen Halappanavar on the death of his wife, Savita. This is a case of maternal death in which a child has been lost, a mother has died and a husband is bereaved. That is a tragedy.

It is true that we have exemplary standards in our maternity hospitals. The fact that this young woman lost her life is a personal and family tragedy. No words of ours here can deal with that loss. It is appropriate that we do not rule anything out, but there are two investigations going on: the internal investigation by the Galway-Roscommon university hospital group, and a second by the HSE national incident management team. It would be appropriate for the Minister for Health to receive both of these reports, and that we then consider them and decide on the best option. It is important and imperative that the standards that apply in our maternity units are kept at the highest level of professionalism and competence. For that reason, I do not rule anything out. However, it is only appropriate that the two investigations being conducted be allowed to conclude, that the Minister for Health receive those reports and that we consider them at that point.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I want to make it clear that my objective here is not political. I am a layperson but, from a preliminary reading of this matter, it seems to me this woman should not have died in these circumstances. I accept that this is a subjective early assessment, but there are a range of issues involved. First, a woman has died in circumstances which are rare in Ireland and, accordingly, an exceptional response, such as an independent inquiry, is required. That does not exclude the internal inquiries that are under way. It might be useful if those involved were aware there was to be an external independent inquiry. Whether we like it or not, people will not have confidence in an internal inquiry. Questions will inevitably be raised about it as, unfortunately, they have been in the past. This is why it is important that an external independent inquiry is established and that it reaches across to the other issues about which one can read in the newspapers and commentary this morning. When the independent report on the A, B and C case is published, people will draw conclusions. That is why we need, above and beyond everything else, a clear, independent clinical inquiry into what happened in this case and why this woman lost her life in such circumstances.

I submit to the Taoiseach that we need that and I call on him to give that commitment to have such an independent inquiry.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Nothing we say or do here will bring back Savita Halappanavar or make up for the loss of a wife and child. I do not believe we should say anything about this until we are in possession of all the facts. I do not want to decry in any way the capacity of the internal investigation being conducted by the Galway Roscommon university hospitals group nor to decry in any way the investigation being conducted by the HSE national management team. In the interests of this case and for all others, the Minister for Health should be able to receive both those investigative reports and to analyse them based on the facts as they are determined by the professionals in both investigative teams. We should then decide what is the best option based on the facts. I do not wish to say anymore about the case because neither Deputy Martin nor I are in possession of all the facts.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Legislation might help.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I can confirm to Deputy Martin that the expert group report into the A, B and C v. Ireland case has been completed. The report was delivered yesterday evening to the Department of Health. The report has not yet been seen by the Minister, who is in Cork this morning. Obviously, he will read the report, reflect on it and bring it to Government when he is ready to do so.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It was my intention this morning to raise the continuing scandal of bankers' bonuses, pensions and salaries and the Government's refusal to deal with this insult to citizens, who are carrying the burden of its austerity policies. Then, I heard of the death of the pregnant woman, Savita Halappanavar, who died on 28 October in University Hospital Galway. I understand that Savita's death is being investigated and we are rightly restrained in what we can say on this tragic issue. However, it is reported that she died of blood poisoning after being refused a termination while miscarrying, according to her husband. There is an imperative on the Dáil to express condolences and solidarity to Savita's family, but also to deal with the issues which led to her death. Ba mhaith liom mo chomhbhrón a dhéanamh le fear chéile agus clann Savita thar ceann Sinn Féin.

There is also an onus on the Government to bring forward the report of its expert group on promised legislation without delay to deal with issues involving such cases. I realise there are strongly held opposing views, including within Sinn Féin and throughout society, on the issue of medical termination. However, the people spoke in a referendum and firmly placed the responsibility upon the Oireachtas to deal with the issue by means of legislation. The Supreme Court ruled in 1992 that a termination is lawful if it can be shown that there is "a real and substantial risk to the life, as distinct from the health, of the mother". When will the Government publish the report of its expert group? When will the Government bring forward legislation, as promised?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I repeat that the matter of bankers' pay is under review by the Government with a view to action being taken. This process was begun by the Department of Finance. It has been added to by the Mercer group. I have no reason to believe that it cannot be produced before the budget and I do not see why not. It is a matter of intense interest for the public at large.

I informed Deputy Martin that the report on the A, B and C v. Ireland case has been finished and delivered to the Department of Health. The Minister for Health has a duty to read and reflect on it and he has a duty and responsibility to bring it to Government. The Government will make its decision on the basis of what the report sets out. Deputy Adams is aware that the terms of reference for that report were to examine the A, B and C v. Ireland judgment of the European Court of Human Rights, to elucidate its implications for the provision of health care services to pregnant women in Ireland and to recommend a series of options on how to implement the judgment, taking into account the constitutional, legal, medical and ethical considerations involved in the formulation of public policy in this area and the over-riding need for speedy action. Deputy Adams will be aware that the group was made up of experts in the fields of obstetrics, psychiatry, general practice, law, professional regulation and public policy and was chaired by the honourable Mr. Justice Seán Ryan of the High Court. The group met on nine occasions and clearly the Government has a requirement to send a response on progress to the Council of Europe by 30 November. From that point of view the Minister must read the report, reflect on it and bring it to Government, and then the Government will make its decision when it considers it.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I have no wish to confuse the two issues.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do not, because we are only allowed to debate one issue.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Okay, but the Taoiseach's attitude to bankers' pay and pensions, like his attitude to Ministers' pay and pensions, is totally wrong.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, Deputy, please. You know the rules.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We have learned of the tragic death of Savita Halappanavar. In April, the Minister of Health stated that no action had been taken on these issues by six successive Governments and that he had no wish to be part of the seventh. We know the terms of reference of the expert group and it is good that it has brought forward its report. The Minister stated he was confident that the group would produce proposals that were sensible, practical and implementable. There is a belief in Sinn Féin that all possible means of education and support services should be in place in order that the difficult choice of terminating a pregnancy can be avoided by as many women as possible. However, in this case we are advised that the woman and her husband asked for a termination because the hospital had acknowledged that the woman was miscarrying. There is a need to put in place legislation and arguably this has been the case for almost 20 years. On this sad day for this family, will the Taoiseach simply indicate to the House when that legislation will come before the Dáil?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will go back to Deputy Adams's first comment again. He has a tendency to come here and comment on attitudes and everything else.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I have a mandate for that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Naturally, he has a mandate. However, Deputy Adams was a person who drew expenses for attending a parliament that he never recognised across the water. He should not come in here with that attitude every day of the week.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There is no comparison and the Taoiseach knows it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I want Deputy Adams to understand that the Government has an intention of taking action on this matter.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I have a mandate for that as well.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, and the Deputy has his baronetcy designation or whatever it is to go along with it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Through the Chair, please. Thank you.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Naturally, Deputy Adams has his mandate from the people of Louth. They are entitled to elect who they wish and they have elected Deputy Adams. I am simply reminding him of some differences of opinion he might hold with some other people here. Perhaps, in the absence of Deputy McDonald, when he replies he might clarify whether Sinn Féin segregates Irish society into little people and other people. She seemed to suggest last week in Deputy Adams's absence that Sinn Féin only has regard for little people.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not categorise Irish people in any such sectors.

Deputy Adams might deal with that as a matter of course, with his party position about the people whom he serves in County Louth and his party's other representatives around the country.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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When is the legislation due?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is a tragic case and I am not going to say anything in this House without being in possession of the facts. I read the reports this morning and I listened to commentary about the matter. There are two investigations taking place. It is only right and appropriate that the facts be determined by both of those investigations. When they are presented to the Minister for Health, he will bring the findings to Cabinet, they will be published, and we can then decide what is the best thing to do. Anything we can do will not bring back the good woman who passed away.

I read out for Deputy Adams the terms of reference of the expert group dealing with the A, B and C case. I confirm again for the Deputy that the report was delivered last night. The Minister has not seen it and he has not read it. He has a duty and responsibility to do so and to bring the report to the Government, and the Government will make a decision based on the options that are set out in the report, which was part of the expert group's remit.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What about my question on the legislation?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The expert group was asked to examine the judgment, to elucidate its implications for the provision of health care services to pregnant women in Ireland and to recommend a series of options on how to implement the judgment, taking into account the constitutional, legal, medical and ethical considerations involved in the formulation of public policy in this area and the overriding need for speedy action. Those are the terms of reference.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Government is committed to legislation.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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That does not stop the Government from introducing legislation.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I join the Taoiseach and Deputies Martin and Adams in expressing sympathy to the family of Savita on the tragedy that happened at Galway University Hospital.

Last year the Government courageously decided to hold a referendum on judicial pay and conditions, which was passed by the electorate with a large majority. That was a good start to reforms, which, I suggest, are now necessary in a much more radical vein. Yesterday in the High Court, a judge recused himself from a case because he held shares in CRH, the company over which he was making an adjudication. After he had admitted in open court in 2010 that he held the shares, the discovery was made by the plaintiffs that his advisers - in his words - had bought more shares at a time when the case was proceeding under him. I am not making any accusations against him. He states that this was done by his advisers without his knowledge. It raises serious questions about the regulation of the Judiciary and its self-regulation. How can it happen that a judge is allocated a case involving a company in which he holds shares and from which he stands to benefit or lose depending on the verdict? That is the reality. This is a multi-million euro case. It could run into tens of millions of euro. There could also be, unknown to us, other cases involving such matters as the banks and NAMA whose judges are involved in commercial activities which are not declared and about which the plaintiffs and the defendants know nothing. In light of this, would the Taoiseach consider providing that the members of the Judiciary be required by law to make a declaration of their interests for public view so that plaintiffs and defendants can see what they hold and the president of the court can allocate cases accordingly?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must be careful here that we are not straying into areas covered by the separation of powers. Members should be conscious of it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know that Deputy Ross is raising this case as a matter of public interest and that he does not impugn the integrity of any person. He has been clear on that.

The referendum in respect of pay for members of the Judiciary came about because of the constitutional Article that stipulated that the remuneration of judges could not be reduced and because of the circumstances that applied nationally when there was a request for voluntary reductions of salaries. The fact that agreement to this request was not forthcoming to a great extent was the reason the referendum took place.

I will consult with the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, about this matter. There is certainly a need for the public to view the Judiciary as being entirely independent, as it always has, but this is a small country and members of the Judiciary have obviously been involved in business in different areas over the years. This is a matter on which we need to reflect without infringing in any way upon the separation of powers between the Executive and the Judiciary. We must ensure that the high level of confidence in the Judiciary over the years is maintained. It is an issue that I will certainly discuss with the Minister for Justice and Equality.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I thank the Taoiseach for promising discussions. Of course, as the Taoiseach will understand, I am looking for more than discussions, because this is a serious matter. It is quite obvious that the opaque way in which judges conduct their business is not open to any public scrutiny.

Judicial reform is important. The Taoiseach will be aware that I am alleging no misconduct in this case. The fact that the judge must remove himself from the case constitutes a waste of public money because, presumably, the case must be held again.

Is there any way we could remove the appointment and removal of judges from the political arena? The Taoiseach will be aware that this is an area crying out for reform. We have been waiting at least ten years for a judicial council Bill, which has not appeared because the judges have resisted it so much. The Taoiseach will be aware that there has never been a case in the history of the State in which a judge has been removed by a vote of the Oireachtas. There have been one or two that have come close, but it has not happened.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Shatter, as Minister for Justice and Equality, has brought about more far-reaching and fundamental changes to the legal profession than have taken place over the last 200 years.

A Deputy:

He has shattered all the records.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is already committed to bringing in the courts Bill to reform the way the courts are run. It is an opportunity to make the system fit for purpose for the 21st century.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Come off it now.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is for Time magazine.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is a complex matter that arose in the House by way of a special committee on the impeachment of a judge a number of years ago. Deputy Ross, who was a Member of the Seanad at the time, will recall the endless decisions that had to be made in that case, although it did not reach a conclusion, as he is aware.

As part of the reform of the legal system, including the courts, the Minister for Justice and Equality is best placed to go beyond mere discussions and see what can actually be done here. Deputy Ross raises a valid point. I know the Deputy does not want to impugn anybody's integrity, but in terms of maintaining the confidence of the people, it is an issue we can certainly look at.