Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 October 2012

5:00 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. 12, motion re membership of committees; No. 16, statements on the pre-European Council meetings of 18 and 19 October 2012; and No. 4, Education and Training Boards Bill 2012 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 12 shall be decided without debate; and No. 16 shall be taken immediately following the Order of Business and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall be made by the Taoiseach and by the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and the order shall resume thereafter with Topical Issues. Private Members' business shall be No. 64, motion re home help cuts.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 12 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 16 agreed to? Agreed.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Taoiseach state the number of commitments that have been followed through in legislation, particularly in respect of the overhaul of TLAC? Is it the case that the chairman and majority of members are drawn from outside the public sector? If not, when will this occur? Shall all appointments at principal officer level and above be open to external competition, and at least one third-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation is the Deputy referring?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is No. 1, regarding the public sector reform commitments. It was committed that at least one third of such appointments would be reserved for candidates from outside traditional Civil Service structures for a five-year period. Has this been honoured? If not, what is the timeframe?

Can the Taoiseach indicate when legislation to introduce social impact bonds will be brought before the House? The legislation is promised.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform met members of TLAC yesterday. He reviewed the first year of its operation, the impact of the lay majority thereon and the consequences of having an external majority. I suppose the results will be published in due course.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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They are quite happy to go to a committee-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Perhaps we could discuss this in another way rather than on the Order of Business.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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What is the position on social impact bonds?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will have to come back to the Deputy on that.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a clear commitment in the programme for Government. Your lack of knowledge of the programme for Government is startling. It is a clear commitment.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know it is in the programme for Government but I will have to come back to the Deputy on the timing.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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You did not know about it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know well about it.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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You had no notion.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would the Deputies mind having conversations through the Chair?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Tá ceist agam faoi reachtaíocht atá fógraithe, the local government reform bill. The Government committed to reorganising local governance structures to allow the further devolution of decision making to local people. As I understand it, there was an announcement today on the abolition of town councils. There is real hunger for more democracy but there is considerable fear that this is just about costs. Could the Taoiseach tell us when the local government reform Bill will be published and brought before the Dáil?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Today's announcement refers to what is probably the biggest shake-up of local governance since the foundation of the State.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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It is an attack on local democracy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The details are already published.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Has Deputy Healy-Rae read it?

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform would, of course, agree with it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This will be carried through to effect for the 2014 elections. This will mean a number of Bills will have to be brought before the House by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government. This will happen as soon as possible. The information is now available to the Deputy in detailed form.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Gerrymandering in Dublin.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Bring back James Tully.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The proposal is to reduce the overall number of councillors, councils and regional authorities, saving €45 million.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It will not save anything.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It will give greater cohesion and clarity to elected councillors-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Perhaps we will circulate the statement.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy will have ample opportunity to debate his area here.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Government is shooting a lot of its own lads in the back.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It looks after Labour in Dublin.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy does not mind-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is the biggest gerrymander I have seen in a long time.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Adams was asking a question.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The question, which the Taoiseach studiously avoided, was when the legislation will be brought forward.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Have we any idea?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As I said, there are three or four Bills involved. They must all be implemented before 2014. It will probably be next year before the bulk of these Bills appear. It will be important for the Deputy and his colleagues to read the documentation and figure out what it means for them.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Given the considerable fear and anxiety among many over the prospect of the knife of austerity being stuck further in-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Hold on, we have been through austerity for the past hour. Could the Deputy mention the legislation?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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A debate has been promised. When will the Government allow the pre-budgetary debate on the economy that the Opposition asked for?

Photo of Olivia MitchellOlivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Next week.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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How will the debate be arranged?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for the Whips.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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May I suggest-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy may not make a suggestion.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have not finished.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has finished as far as I am concerned because he is not dealing with promised legislation.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The debate is next week. It will be set out by the Minister for Finance according to the normal routine dictating speaking time. Deputy Boyd Barrett will have his say.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett has had a good go. There are many Deputies who want to contribute.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have not finished.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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On what? What does the Deputy want to know now?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I want to ask about the precise recourse available to a Deputy when another Member of the House has factually misled the House and impugned the character of that Deputy.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. I call Deputy Broughan.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will the Taoiseach apologise for it?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I can provide him with evidence of the factual misleading of the House and the defamation of the character of a Deputy.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett's dirty little trick backfired on him.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It was not a dirty little trick.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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On the promised local government Bills, there will be grave disappointment in the four Dublin county council areas and the Dublin region generally-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Perhaps the Deputy could express his views when the legislation is before the House.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I am expressing them now to the Taoiseach. We are not getting a real mayor for this city. People were looking forward to some autonomy.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows he is out of order.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I am slightly out of order but the people are looking forward to some autonomy. One or two people in my party will be very disappointed with the decision, if what I have outlined is the decision.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to please resume his seat.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I am thankful that time has been kindly allowed for a Topical Issue debate on Priory Hall. However, some 1,000 people are asking me to give the Taoiseach a message. They have had sympathy and now want some action. They want to know when they will receive Mr. Justice Finnegan's report. People are in dire straits.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is being dealt with by way of a Topical Issue debate.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach knows what I am implying.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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People have been protesting regularly outside the Dáil, including today, because a major contract-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the legislation?

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I refer to the Construction Contracts Bill. A company in Kilkenny, which was involved in a major project for a school, has disappeared, leaving high and dry hundreds of employees-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Hold on, will the Deputy sit down, please?

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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-----and dozens of subcontractors.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could the Deputy not try to be in order just once?

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is in order. I refer to the subcontractors Bill, which has been promised for so long.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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For what reason is the Deputy talking about protests outside the Dáil?

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The protestors were there because dozens of subcontractors have been left high and dry. When will the Bill be before the House?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Construction Contracts Bill is awaiting Committee Stage at the Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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When will we see it?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Second Stage has already been passed.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Government messed up the whole thing.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government should make the amendments and get it sorted.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy McGrath should not be trying to make a farce out of this process every single day.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am not.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knew the Bill is on Committee Stage. It is not a matter for the Order of Business.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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For what is it a matter?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Healy-Rae to be in order.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I am in order. With regard to the forthcoming constitutional convention, as outlined in the programme for Government, is there a proposal to reduce the voting age to 16 or 17?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should table a parliamentary question.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is the first matter to be considered.

Photo of Anthony LawlorAnthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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With regard to a matter that is to arise in the Children Court-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No.

Photo of Anthony LawlorAnthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Is the Taoiseach proposing to change the Children Act?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there promised legislation?

Photo of Anthony LawlorAnthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will he amend section 267?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there promised legislation?

Photo of Anthony LawlorAnthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I hope there will be.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A programme has been circulated to the Members. Is there promised legislation?

5:10 pm

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Regarding promised legislation, the dissolution of the county and city enterprise boards, CEBs, has been discussed for a long time. When will the Bill to overhaul the system and bring it under the remit of local government be introduced in the Dáil?

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It should not be in the Dáil.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I wish to make an inquiry about a second Bill, namely, the noise nuisance Bill.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not include mobile telephones in the Chamber, by the way.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It should.

Photo of Olivia MitchellOlivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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There is an amendment for the Government.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Bill needs to be introduced soon.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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There was noise in Kilkenny after the match.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Bill that Deputy Bannon referred to relates to local government reform and the local enterprise boards. That will be next year. I referred last week to the fact that the noise Bill is still a way in the distance. We do not have it within hearing range at the moment.

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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I wish to ask the Taoiseach about the €2.6 billion bill for pension tax relief, which predominantly benefits the better off. What about restricting this tax relief to people with incomes below €80,000, as promised in the programme for Government?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for the budget.

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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It has been promised. When can we expect legislation?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I imagine it will be in the Finance Bill.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is a matter for the budget and the finance Bill that will follow.