Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

At a recent meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts the chief executive officer of the Health Service Executive admitted that it was facing a potential deficit of €500 million if corrective action were not taken. He stated that to break even there would be a significant impact on services for the remainder of the year. He added that the assumptions on which the HSE's 2012 service plan had been based were no longer valid. According to Deputy Deasy who received an off-the-record reaction from the CEO, the HSE would have to close wards, beds and, possibly, hospitals. There are hospital managers who are at the end of their tether and genuinely worried about the budgetary position, given the cuts already made to their allocations and their inability to make ends meet. What is emerging clearly is that the health Estimate for 2012 was not an honest one. The CEO makes the point that in the plan which the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, oversaw and approved the assumption was that there would be a saving of €124 million in drug payments via a new pricing agreement with the industry but "That has not come through." The assumption was there would be additional income of €140 million, of which €75 million would come from charging private patients in public beds, but "That assumption is not yet deliverable." Reducing agency costs by 50% was a further target. Given that agency staff will cost €200 million this year, the CEO is now saying the 50% target was never realistic.

The failure to implement health measures announced in the budget in December is one matter, but it now seems clear that the figures were never achievable and what the Government, the Minister in particular, stands accused of, in essence, is that the books were cooked to give a false and dishonest health Estimate. That is why on 8 June the Minister lashed out at workers in the health service, stating he wanted allowances, premium payments and everything else cut all of sudden and that people needed to get their act together. The reality is he did not get his act together at the time of the budget, in that false figures that were completely unachievable were included in the health Estimate and now we are facing the prospect of ward and bed closures because of the failings of the Minister and the Government in this respect.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is unbecoming of the Deputy to accuse the Minister for Health of being dishonest in the presentation of the Estimate for his Department for the budget for 2012. That is not in keeping with the Deputy's normal behaviour. Clearly, the HSE is facing a serious challenge this year. Its performance report for April shows a net deficit of €200 million, of which hospitals account for €106 million, while community services have overspent by €57 million, of which some €13 million relates to child care services. The primary care reimbursement service, including medical card services, is showing a deficit of €45 million.

The HSE has outlined possible approaches to dealing with the financial position, including reduced use of agency staff and implementing reforms under the Croke Park agreement to achieve more cost-effective use of human resources. It has submitted a mid-year cost-containment proposal which the Department of Health and the Minister are considering. As the Deputy will be aware, the Department has indicated that 70% of the HSE's €13 billion budget is accounted for by pay. Of this, 18% is classified as non-core, including overtime and premium payments and allowances paid to staff. In a health service that must run an effective 24-7 service, it is imperative that ways be found to address the growing deficit.

I do not accept the Deputy's assertion that the Minister was dishonest in presenting the Estimate for his Department for this year. It is a fact of life that every Minister must work hard to ensure the ceilings and proposals for his or her Department's budget for 2012 are adhered to. The Minister is working hard, both within the Department and with the HSE, to address the deficit.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Taoiseach did not deal with the core issue. Completely unrealistic and unachievable figures were included in the health Estimate. Legislation to give effect to them has not even been brought before the House and it is only two or three weeks to the recess. False figures were included in the Estimate: there was a figure of €143 million under the heading of income from private patients in public hospitals; a figure of €124 million for demand-led schemes and savings in respect of agency staff. Mr. Cathal Magee states it was never realistic to state agency staff would be cut by 50% and the Taoiseach is now trotting out a reference to a cut in agency staff for the rest of the year. The bottom line is that these were false figures and we need answers.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There were false figures also when the Deputy left office.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We need clarity on how the Estimate was submitted. I accept there can be overruns in expenditure, but what is clear from this - anyone who knows anything on the ground is saying this - is that there was never a hope in hell that any of these figures would be realised. They were false figures and will the Taoiseach correct them? Can we have a realistic Estimate for the remainder of the year and can the Taoiseach give a guarantee that front-line services will not be affected because of the Minister's failings and incompetence and, perhaps, much more, in the Estimate? We received no clarification from anybody in the Department of Health or the Minister.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

When the Deputy had the privilege of serving as Minister for Health and Children, the answer on every occasion there was a difficulty was to throw millions into the maw of the public health service.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Taoiseach should not listen to the prompts from the Minister; he should answer the questions asked.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Taoiseach's response is to throw in dodgy figures.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, has written to the Minister to tell him to get his act together.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy was not able to deal with the matter because he never had the courage to face up to what needed to be done. That is the long and the short of it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not need a lecture from the Taoiseach about my time in the Department of Health of Children. I am quite happy about it.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Perhaps, if the Deputy had listened, he might have done better.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What the people at the coalface want is answers.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In tackling the real problems the Minister has brought about a reduction of 20% in the numbers of patients on trolleys. There were 10,000 fewer in the first five and a half months of the year.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I asked about the Estimate.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are now in a situation where more people than ever before, 1.8 million, are covered by medical cards.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I referred to the Estimate.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We have an effective front-line service. The catastrophic consequences about which the Deputy spoke at the end of February when significant numbers left the public service as part of the voluntary redundancy scheme did not materialise because clinical and medical teams and managers on the front line signed up for their individual programmes and plans. These are being implemented.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Does the Taoiseach have any idea what is happening on the ground?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In so far as front-line services are concerned, the Deputy can take it that the Minister for Health is working with all his people.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Last week, Mr. Cathal Magee, the CEO of the Health Service Executive, referred to a €500 million overrun in the heath service at a committee meeting.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Cork University Hospital is now one of the best performing hospitals in the country because of the changes that have been made.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Of course it is, because a lot was put into Cork University Hospital in the last five years. Could the Taoiseach answer the question?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not accept the Deputy's assertions regarding falsehoods, dishonesty or hard work on the part of the Minister.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They are the Government's figures. The CEO of the HSE spoke about this last week at the committee. The Taoiseach should ask Deputy John Deasy about it.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Order, please.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

How many reports did Deputy Martin commission when he was Minister? Was it 112 or 117?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Order, please.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We searched for them behind radiators when we went into the Department.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

As the Taoiseach will be aware, there is much concern in rural areas about cutbacks in the Garda Síochána. Members of rural communities have protested outside the Dáil and the Garda Representative Association has spoken out about these cuts and expressed concerns in recent times. I bring to the Taoiseach's attention an incident which occurred in my constituency in recent days as I am sure it will cause him concern. A few weeks ago, gardaí were taking more than 24 hours to take statements in response to reports of thefts and crimes. It became more serious in recent days when a woman returned to her home to find it had been burgled and was informed by the garda on duty, when she telephoned her local Garda station in some distress, that he did not have a vehicle available to him. When she offered to collect him to bring him to her home the garda - fair play to him - showed flexibility and took up her offer and visited her home to investigate the crime. Warnings issued by the Garda Representative Association are now being realised on the ground. There are insufficient personnel and vehicles to provide backup to communities. Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Justice and Equality to urgently review the impact of cuts on the Garda Síochána, to meet the Garda Commissioner as soon as possible to consider cases such as this, and to put in place a plan that will reassure communities in rural areas and along the Border that they are safe and have the Garda cover they need?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am taken by the Deputy's new-found concern for the Garda, law and order and the welfare of our citizens and I commend him on his comments. He will be aware that rostering arrangements have changed in the Garda for the benefit of everybody. The evidence from the implementation of the changed rosters is that there is greater connection between officers and members of the force and communities. People see gardaí around more often, which is to be welcomed. Obviously, the position is being monitored by superintendents and the Garda Commissioner, who has responsibility for the day-to-day running of the force. I recall speaking to a long-retired Garda sergeant from County Donegal who, 60 years ago, had to commandeer a vehicle in the interests of public safety to take part in a poitín raid in the north end of the county. Those days are long gone.

The Deputy makes a serious point in respect of the vehicles available to the Garda. This is a matter about which the Minister for Justice and Equality is in contact with the Garda Commissioner. I am aware of the extent of mileage covered by Garda vehicles, some of which are nearing the end of their mechanical tether, as it were. The Commissioner is examining this issue.

I invite Deputy Mac Lochlainn to send me details of the case to which he referred and I will have the matter taken up directly with the Minister for Justice and Equality-----

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He can read all about it in today's newspapers.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----and the local chief superintendent to ensure every citizen in his constituency and elsewhere in the country receives the best level of attention and service from the Garda.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Taoiseach for his offer. I will send him the relevant details.

Referring to the closure of Garda stations, the outgoing president of the Garda Representative Association, Damien McCarthy, made the following prophetic statement at the GRA conference in April:

It's going to become perhaps a safe breeding ground for criminal activity. It's going to contribute significantly to the fear of crime particularly amongst our senior citizens around the country.

The incident I highlighted is highly embarrassing for the local garda in question, of whom I am not in any way critical. In all the complaints that I and other Deputies are receiving on this issue no one blames rank and file gardaí. The current president of the GRA, Mr. John Parker, has noted the following:

Nearly one in every five garda vehicles has been withdrawn and not replaced due to budget cuts for the garda fleet over the past two years. It is set to get worse as more and more vehicles reach the end of their life and can no longer be maintained safely.

There is a problem and there is no point glossing over it. I ask the Taoiseach to speak to the Minister for Justice and Equality, who is in denial and passes the buck to the Commissioner and superintendents. Let us have a conversation about the reality emerging in rural communities in respect of Garda response times. Gardaí on the ground deserve better and should be provided with the resources they require to do their job to the ability they clearly possess.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy welcomed the closure of 36 PSNI stations in Northern Ireland, a move with which his party was strongly associated. I reject his assertion that the Minister for Justice and Equality is in denial about his Department. Few Ministers for justice have shown the prodigious output of work and involvement of the current Minister. I am sure the matters raised are being discussed by the Minister and Garda Commissioner as we make preparations for the work that lies ahead.

I am not glossing over anything. Our citizens are entitled to the best level of service that can be provided. I am sure the Deputy is well aware that when, God forbid, an accident, tragedy or whatever else takes place people are always full of praise and admiration for the commitment shown by Garda officers, whatever their locality or call of duty. This commitment has been demonstrated by the Garda Síochána over many long years. What we need now is to have the best and most effective service possible and give gardaí the facilities to do their job. Added to that is the commitment gardaí show as citizens doing a very responsible job. The Deputy will be aware that the Garda is the only line of defence between citizens and criminals. The Minister for Justice and Equality speaks regularly with the Garda Commissioner, who has responsibility for the day-to-day running of the force. The Garda Representative Association has a job to do and is never quiet about articulating what it considers to be the ultimate needs of the Garda. These are issues that are always considered by the Minister.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

As the trappings of power are bestowed, Members should remain aware that we are here by the grace of the people. Given that everyone should be treated with equal respect and dignity, why is this not the case for certain citizens? The Government has spouted much talk about the importance of a decent quality of life for people with disabilities. The so-called programme for Government pays lip service to a commitment to facilitate people with disabilities with a greater level of participation in society. This statement is at odds with the state of fear in which people are living. The cut of 11% in funding for the centres for independent living is affecting the provision of personal assistance and cuts to community employment schemes on which the centres rely to provide this service have affected their ability to operate.

The Government committed to paying €64 billion to bail out the banks. This sum would provide 306 million hours of personal assistance for people with disabilities and equates to financing the largest personal assistance provider in the country for more than 150 years. As I speak, we await the publication of the long overdue value for money review of disability services. It is plain to all that continuing to provide people with disabilities with a personal assistant is much more cost effective than any alternative. Many people who rely on this service already have had their allocated hours reduced, which already has limited their quality of life. Any further cuts would leave many housebound or, worse, would put them into a position in which their only option would be an institution. One can only imagine the disdain being felt by disabled persons and carers, who fear for their only route to independent living, when they learn today of tenders for silk scarves and neckties to be bought at the expense of the State. I argue that silk ties are not something with which we should be bothering. The key issue is whether the Taoiseach can guarantee there will be no further cuts to such services and that personal assistance hours will be protected as the Government devises its seismic December budget about which Members are hearing so much from Government circles.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The issue raised by the Deputy is important in the sense that the quality of life for the persons involved is what is central to the entire argument. The purpose of the value for money report to which the Deputy referred is to ascertain the effectiveness of the expenditure of taxpayers' money in looking after persons who suffer from challenges because of disability. When one speaks to people who work in the service, they themselves point out opportunities where money could be spent in a better and more effective way. It is appropriate that there should be a debate in this Chamber when the report on effectiveness and value for money has come to hand and has been published. I meet people who look after persons with disability and I talk to people with a disability who face that challenge every day, some of whom are wheelchair-bound and others not. They themselves point out how things could be better or could be different.

It is not all about money but is about the best and most effective expenditure to enable those people to have the best quality of life. While I share that view with the Deputy, this is an opportunity for all elected Members, who as the Deputy noted are here by the grace of the people, to define a strategy and to decide what are the best and most effective results from taxpayers' money that is being paid to organisations, agencies or people in respect of the facilities people receive and the quality of life they derive from that as a consequence. I look forward to having sight of the value for money report to establish whether changes can be made that will make the quality of people's lives better because of more effective expenditure.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Taoiseach's response will give cold comfort to the people who are losing those personal assistance hours. One does not need a value for money report to show their value, as one only needed to attend the presentation in the audiovisual room by the centres for independent living to see the value and quality of life improvements such hours provide. People need a commitment that their personal assistance hours will be protected, and it is very disappointing that the Taoiseach cannot give such a commitment today. In light of that, will the Taoiseach provide an assurance that the Government will ratify the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities? Will the Government pledge to treat such people with the dignity and respect they deserve as Irish citizens?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

A number of legislative items must be dealt with before the aforementioned United Nations convention can be addressed. However, I must tell the Deputy that the other day, I spoke to someone who is wheelchair-bound and who must write by using a mouth-based instrument. The point that person made to me was the cost of facilities or additions to wheelchairs, for instance, for those who are disabled is astronomical and there are opportunities for more effective and certainly considerably less expensive facilities to do the same job. If one considers the breakdown of costs, they can be complicated and it may be necessary to have such items specially purpose-built for individuals who may have particular challenges. However, this is an area in which the value for money report will be important. When I speak to people in the centres for independent living, in general they are pleased with the layout and structure of such places and how that allows them to have the freedom to live their lives.

Deputy Pringle's basis is all about money and while the money pot is limited for everything, as far as I am concerned the Government must get the best and most effective spend in this regard in order that those who reside in the centres for independent living and who have a challenge because of disability will get the best quality of life that can be provided for them. It is only right and proper that all of these areas should be examined in the context of what gives the best result for such people. This is where the emphasis should and will be.