Dáil debates
Wednesday, 27 June 2012
Order of Business
11:00 am
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. a8, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions, without debate; No. b8, motion re membership of committees, without debate; No. 1, Criminal Justice (Withholding of Information on Offences Against Children and Vulnerable Persons) Bill 2012 [Seanad] - Second Stage (resumed), to adjourn at 5.30 p.m. if not previously concluded; and No. 6, Microenterprise Loan Fund Bill 2012 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn not later than 10 p.m.; Private Members' business shall be No. 56, motion re arts and culture (resumed), to conclude at 9 p.m. tonight, if not previously concluded.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a8 and b8, motions re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions and membership of committees, without debate, agreed to?
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Ceann Comhairle-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Just a moment, please resume your seat, Deputy. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a8 and b8, motions re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions and membership of committees, without debate, agreed to? Agreed.
What is your problem, Deputy McCarthy?
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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On the motion re membership of committees, to whom does it apply?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are dealing with the proposal for a late sitting.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy, that can be raised on the Order of Business.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It must be the hot weather or the pollen in the air or something. I call Deputy Micheál Martin.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a lot of hot weather in the Labour Party at the moment.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the point of order?
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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There are two issues to be put to the House today and the Deputy beside me asked permission to speak on the second issue to be put to the House-----
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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He did. For some reason or other, the Ceann Comhairle refused him and said he could raise it on the Order of Business. It is a matter to be put to the House and agreed.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does Deputy Stagg object to what is being proposed? I asked if it is agreed and nobody said it was not agreed.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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We wanted clarity before it was agreed.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no clarity-----
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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He is entitled to ask for clarity on an issue before it is agreed.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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On what issue? Is it the proposal regarding motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions and membership of committees agreed?
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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He wishes to raise the motion on membership of committees.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It is on the Order Paper. Can Deputy Stagg read?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a motion without debate.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle was putting a question to the House as to whether we agreed to that being taken without debate-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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And nobody disagreed with me.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Deputy McCarthy was looking for clarity on the motion before it was put to the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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He cannot have clarity.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Stagg, please resume your seat.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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That is a new Standing Order which the Ceann Comhairle is making up.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please show some respect for the Chair and go and learn the Standing Orders.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I do not respect wrong decisions by the Chair.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Martin.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Deputy Stagg should read the Order Paper which contains the Order of Business. That is where he will find it.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The reason Deputy Higgins is raising his voice is that he is a second Wallace under house arrest.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat, please.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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We would not get away with that.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is Deputy Keaveney here?
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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None of us would get away with it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On forthcoming legislation, I wish to point out to the Taoiseach that the Keane report did not recommend the ending of the mortgage interest supplement scheme. In my view he should not have distorted its recommendations in his response to my earlier questions. The report looks for sustainable models but nowhere in the Keane report is there a recommendation for the ending or the phasing out of the mortgage interest supplement scheme, which is a scandal in terms of what-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not going over that issue again, Deputy. We are on the Order of Business.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Taoiseach give the House an indication and an outline as to when it is proposed to circulate the personal insolvency Bill, the timetable for Second Stage debate and for Committee Stage and ultimate implementation and commencement? We need some idea of the timeline for implementation of the proposed measures.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The personal insolvency Bill will be published and circulated on Friday and a full press conference will be held on Friday to deal with any questions on the details of the Bill. It is expected that Second Stage will be taken probably next week. It is not a fact that the banks must wait for the Bill to be enacted before they start dealing with their customers and their borrowers. The very fact that the legislation is being produced and published and is going through the process, is an opportunity for banks and lenders to sit down and work it through with their customers. The Bill will be published on Friday and all the details of the technicalities will be available on Friday. The Whips will make arrangements for the Second Stage to be taken probably next week. I expect a lot of interest in this Bill. We will accommodate the House by making as much time as possible available for the Second Stage debate, given the proposal for a summer recess. However, I want to see Second Stage concluded after everyone has had an opportunity to participate in the debate.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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What is the timeline for Committee Stage?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will not give the Deputy a timeline for Committee Stage because I do not expect this will be concluded before the summer recess. There is a great deal of interest in this legislation but if we can have concluded Second Stage before the summer recess we will be doing very well.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will it be held in October?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would say that is probably a realistic time period, when the Dáil resumes after the summer recess. We can work through the Committee Stage process. October is a good bet, I would think. We are anxious to have it finalised appropriately around that time.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Ceann Comhairle, please.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the leaders first and then I will call other Deputies.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I think a wee dose of rescue remedy for the Government Deputies might be useful in these sessions.
The process outlined by the Taoiseach for dealing with the personal insolvency Bill is most unsatisfactory. It is obvious the Bill is ready.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is not a case of the personal insolvency Bill not being brought to the House. On Friday, I want Members to have a copy of the Bill, the explanatory memorandum and the questions and answers across a spectrum of areas dealing with this.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government approved it yesterday.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The banks were briefed first.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It must be proofread, printed and prepared to be available on Friday.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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We can proofread it too.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is the reason it will be brought to the House next week. It is not a case of having it physically available for Government Deputies; it has to be done for everybody. It was approved yesterday, will be published on Friday and all the details will be in the House next week for the start of the process.
The fiscal stability legislation will be introduced in this session also.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach cleared this Bill with the banks first, before coming to the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, we are not having a debate on the Bill.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is not a case of having to go to any bank to seek approval to publish. The banks have no control over any reforms this Government wishes to introduce in legislation.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They won the battle on it.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Last week, I raised with the Tánaiste the deepening crisis as a result of cuts in the rent allowance, which has seen more families being made homeless or threatened with homelessness. In that context, when will we discuss the housing Bill on the legislative programme? Despite asking several times, we have been given no specific timeline for when that Bill will be discussed. Given the serious crisis of homelessness or threatened homelessness for thousands of families across the country-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no need for the Deputy to expand on the point.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----can the Taoiseach say when the Bill will be introduced? Can he accelerate the process so we get a chance to discuss this most serious issue?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I cannot tell the Deputy when it will be discussed because the heads of the Bill are due for approval later this year. We will try to expedite it but I cannot give the Deputy an answer to his question about a specific date.
Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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When is it proposed to bring forward amendments to the Civil Registration Act 2004, as has been discussed by a number of Ministers and Ministers of State, with regard to people who have lost loved ones overseas?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Approval was given for the heads of the Bill on Tuesday. It will now go before the health committee or the social protection committee for discussion.
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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A Cheann Comhairle, I am seeking clarification on No. b8, motion re membership of committees. When does that take effect? No. b8 on the Order Paper confirms that Deputy Mick Wallace is to be discharged from the Select Committee on Investigations, Oversight and Petitions and be replaced by Deputy Boyd Barrett. I wanted to confirm that Injun Joe has done a hatchet job on Deputy Mick Wallace.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Let me clarify one thing. I was asked by the Government Whip to put an Order of Business announced by the Taoiseach to the House, which is that a motion on this matter be taken without debate. I put that question to the House and nobody objected. Later, I will put the question that the motion be agreed. If the Deputy has objections to it, that is the time to raise it. Please do not start roaring and shouting at me because I am doing my job in accordance with the order.
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I was not roaring and shouting.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Your party Whip did.
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I was not roaring and shouting. I asked a question under Standing Orders-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You were not entitled to do it and you were told to resume your seat. I call Deputy Healy-Rae.
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I am entitled to ask the question under Standing Orders.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are not entitled to put a question at that point.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not wrong. You should go and learn the Standing Orders and something about the Order of Business.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You put a motion to agree that a motion be taken without debate, full stop.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Are you saying nobody can say anything about it?
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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On a point of clarification, a Cheann Comhairle, is the Deputy not half of the Government Whip?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should resume his seat. I call Deputy Healy-Rae.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I thought he was half of the Government Whip. He is confusing us all now.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I wish the Government would make up its mind whether this is agreed without debate.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Yes, a Cheann Comhairle.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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With regard to the data sharing Bill, could the data held by An Post on the location and grid co-ordinates of all properties in Ireland be included in this legislation and shared exclusively with emergency services?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What are you talking about?
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The data sharing Bill.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not want any more speeches.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I wish to raise another item, a Cheann Comhairle.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will deal with that first. I call the Taoiseach on the data sharing Bill.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no date for publication of that Bill.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The other Bill is the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2011. Should there be a requirement-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach on the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2011.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That was on Committee Stage last week and is awaiting Report Stage.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What is the current position with the collective investment schemes consolidation Bill, which is promised and for which there is an obvious and pressing need? Similarly, the Central Bank (consolidation) Bill is also promised and is also very much required.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not need the added comments. Will the Deputy just ask the question? There are many Deputies here.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I was just trying to be helpful, a Cheann Comhairle.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You do not need to be helpful, thank you.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In an effort to be more helpful or unhelpful, as the case may be-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not want to go through this every morning. Just ask the question about the legislation.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I know, a Cheann Comhairle, but I am trying to help you as well.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You do not need to help me but the best thing you can do for me is to stay quiet.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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If I did that, a Cheann Comhairle, I would not be able to represent the people who sent me here. The third legislative measure is the companies Bill. This is also promised and there is an obvious and pressing need for it. Have the three promised legislative measures been discussed by the Cabinet, have the heads been approved-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You cannot ask what is discussed in the Cabinet. That is confidential.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am quite entitled to ask that question.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are not entitled to ask what was discussed at Cabinet.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am entitled to ask whether the heads of Bills have been approved.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a different issue.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It has been standard practice in the House for as long as I have been a Member, unless it has been changed and I do not know about it. Have the heads of the respective Bills been approved? Can some indication be given as to when they are likely to be brought to the House and when they are likely to become law?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The heads of the collective investment Bill have not yet been approved and there is no date for the publication of the Bill. The Central Bank (consolidation) Bill will be published next year. The heads of the companies Bill were cleared a number of years ago. There are 1,300 sections in the Bill and it is expected to be published late this year.
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise two items. When can we expect the valuation (amendment) Bill, to amend the Valuation Act? Second, with regard to the insolvency Bill, the Taoiseach indicated that it will be October, at the earliest, before Committee Stage is taken. He will be aware that a big administrative mechanism must be put in place to bring this Bill into effect. When does he expect the legislation to be in operation?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Taoiseach, when is the Bill being taken?
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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No, a Cheann Comhairle. When will the legislation actually be in operation? Is it realistic to state that it will not be in operation until early 2013, at the earliest?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I expect the Bill to be on Committee Stage in October but if we can get it onto that Stage before the end of September when the Dáil resumes, so much the better. It will go straight from Second Stage to Committee Stage. If we conclude Second Stage before the recess, that will be better. Obviously arrangements must be made in respect of training and appointing personnel for the advisory service that must be provided. That is part of the process that must take place as the legislation proceeds. Parallel with that, banks and lenders now know the legislation will be published on Friday and that it will become a reality. There is nothing to stop them increasing their interaction with their customers in respect of working out solutions for their circumstances and their mortgage situations.
I expect the valuation (amendment) Bill to be ready in the next session.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has just mentioned the personal insolvency Bill and that it would be published on Friday. Last week a commencement order regarding the mortgage interest supplement was laid before the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's leader dealt with that.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I know that but since the Taoiseach has indicated that the banks must engage with the lenders who are in distress, and we do not know what is contained in the personal insolvency Bill because we have not seen it yet, could he ask the Minister for Social Protection to suspend that commencement order-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. We dealt with that already.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----pending the passage of the personal insolvency Bill because the two are connected?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's leader dealt with that.
Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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In the context of promised legislation, and I realise this is looking into the future, could the Taoiseach indicate when there will be substantial reform of local government? Will part of that local government reform include extra finance raising powers for local authorities?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot debate what is in the legislation.
Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Will such legislation be completed before the next local elections?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The general intent is that responsibility should be devolved to local authorities. The consultation process for reform of this is under way with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, councils, local authorities and anybody else who is interested. The Minister will reflect on the findings of that and bring a memorandum to Government in due course. I regret that I cannot give the Deputy a date for publication of the legislation. It would be a matter for Cabinet to decide on arising from the reports prepared by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government.
Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I welcome the Government support yesterday for the Bill currently before the Seanad to prohibit the use of tobacco in cars. A total of 8,000 new cases of skin cancer are diagnosed each year. Many of them are young people under the age of 18. When will the Bill to control the use of sun beds for those under 18 be taken?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is an important issue that has been referred to on many occasions. That Bill will be brought in towards the end of November.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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In recent weeks the committee on communications, energy and natural resources published an all-party report on which there was unanimous agreement by all members. That report is being debated in the Seanad today. Are there any provisions to put that before the House to allow every Deputy the opportunity to debate it?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I assume it is a matter for the Whips. There is no objection from here to having a debate on it. I will ask the Chief Whip to raise the matter at the normal meeting.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I have a question on financial legislation but to be helpful could I first advise that Deputies Stagg and McCarthy should have taken their Milk of Magnesia this morning. It would have a calming effect-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would the Deputy just ask the question?
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----on their interventions here.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Does Deputy Higgins want to hide what he was doing?
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Second, they should read Standing Orders and get to know them.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Yesterday in the High Court the State, on behalf of the Government, gave an undertaking that certain financial measures in proposed legislation would not be proceeded with until the action by Deputy Pringle with regard to the European Stability Mechanism and the necessity for a referendum thereon would be dealt with. Does the Taoiseach know about that and what aspects of legislation will be affected?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not really a suitable matter for the Order of Business without prior notice.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will not comment on a matter that is before the High Court.