Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Following the EU meeting yesterday, there seems to be a concerted effort and progress on the part of member states for growth initiatives through project bonds. This is to be welcomed by us all. There can now be no doubt that the stability treaty will not be changed. The commitment to growth initiatives are long overdue and we look forward to the June EU summit in this regard. We must remember, however, that it is in addition to and separate from the stability treaty which the Irish people will vote for next Thursday. I reiterate our party's commitment to that treaty in calling for a "Yes" vote.

A related matter concerns jobs in the economy, which is vitally important considering the ominous signs from Hewlett Packard this morning. Just over a month ago, on 18 April, the Taoiseach told this House that water meters would be introduced. He said that, as a result, there would be no job losses in the 34 local authorities but that an additional 2,000 jobs would be created for quantity surveyors, engineers, plumbers and others working in the water system. I do not want to get into the pros and cons of water metering today.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

You cannot.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I want to ask the Tánaiste about the plan around those jobs. Is he aware of any plan by the Government to introduce any training programmes with FÁS or Solas for water meter installation? This should surely be a priority to allow 2,000 people to come off the live register. When will these positions be filled? Is there cross-departmental co-operation on this issue and have the Ministers with responsibilities in this area met to discuss a plan?

Have Ministers Hogan, Bruton, Quinn and Burton met prior to, or since, this announcement to discuss mechanisms whereby people on the live register can avail of such opportunities and prepare to be in a position to take up such job offers, or has the Government directed Bord Gáis to prioritise people on the live register? In answering those questions, will the Tánaiste reaffirm the Taoiseach's commitment to this House a month ago that 2,000 jobs would emanate from this initiative?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

First of all, I want to confirm - as Deputy Cowen has said - that yesterday's meeting of EU leaders brought forward a number of proposals which will be worked on between now and June. They are aimed at stimulating growth and job creation within the EU. Those proposals fit in very well with the Government's plans to bring forward measures to stimulate the domestic economy. Yesterday's meeting is something the Irish Government has sought for some time and the outcome is very positive, particularly in addressing the issue of youth unemployment. So many young people from this country and throughout the EU either cannot get jobs or cannot get the work for which they are qualified.

I also want to confirm that the stability treaty will not be changed. What is being voted upon on this day week is exactly the treaty that has been signed. There are no changes in that treaty, nor will there be any changes to it.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

No change, no change.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

With regard to the specific issue of water metering that Deputy Cowen has raised, the Government's decision is to establish a State water utility company, which will be done under Bord Gáis. Work is currently under way through Bord Gáis on the modalities of how that company will be established and what steps will then be taken following the establishment of the water utility company. When it comes to the issue of water metering , as the Taoiseach has said, it is anticipated that there will be 2,000 new jobs in that sector. Meetings are taking place between the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, NewERA, the local government system and Bord Gáis on that issue. There is a staged process, the first stage of which is the establishment through Bord Gáis of the water utility company. A programme will then be worked through by the water utility company on how the actual water metering will take place.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is time for the rhetoric to meet the reality in this regard or even the reality to meet the rhetoric. Only last week a constituent told me he had called into an FÁS office to seek information pertaining to getting the correct accreditation to take up an opportunity that might arise, to find out if there was a training course, plans or an initiative in this area and he was told there was not. What does that tell me about what the Taoiseach had to say here a month ago? How does that say there is a concerted effort, a plan in place or, as the Tánaiste said again here today, that line Ministers with responsibility in this area have met. It is the not the case on the ground. The situation on the ground does not match the rhetoric emanating from the Tánaiste's side of the House.

Despite the spin and the rhetoric, it is becoming more obvious day by day and month and month that the situation on the ground is not matching what the Tánaiste and his Ministers say. I have asked the Tánaiste have the Ministers met to discuss a plan? I have asked him has he or his Government directed Bord Gáis to make provision that those jobs that will emanate from this initiative will be offered to people on the live register. There is nothing in what he has said that tells me or the constituent to whom I referred that there is a plan, prospects, or an initiative in place by the Government, let alone what the Government will put to Europe with regard to other initiatives that will emanate from the growth pact we talked about that will begin in June and to which we look forward.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy has gone over his time.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Tánaiste has to get his own house in order here to prove that he can do it over there.

A Deputy:

Where are the jobs?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

First, it is important to recognise that the plans for water metering are at an early stage. The decision that has been made - perhaps some of this has arisen because some people speculated about what may or may not happen - is to establish the water utility company. That is being done through Bord Gáis Éireann. Those plans have to be brought forward in the first place.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What will that cost in terms of local authority jobs?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Do not be silly.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What the Taoiseach told the House, and what I confirm, is that it is expected there will about 2,000 jobs in water metering once that programme has been rolled out. The agencies which have responsibility for training will work in advance of that to prepare the courses and so on which will suit people on the live register who would be engaged in that work, but first we have to see the proposals from the water utility company.

That is not the only area where there are proposals for job creation in the economy. The Deputy will have seen the announcement that has been made by NAMA of an investment it is making of €2 billion, which is intended to create-----

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Tánaiste is the most hypocritical man I have heard. He once accused NAMA of being a bailout for bankers and developers. The hypocrisy is appalling.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Does the Deputy not want the jobs? He destroyed enough of them.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

A bailout for the bankers and developers.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He should welcome the jobs that will be created.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If Deputy Kelleher does not stop, I will put him out. Stop the shouting.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy has a brass neck.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Deputy Kelleher, please leave the House.

A Deputy:

Go get a sun tan.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Go cut the grass.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I think Deputy Kelleher-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I asked the Deputy to stop and he would not stop. Will he please leave the House? We are not putting up with this roaring and shouting every morning. Please leave the House. Thank you.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What about Deputy Stagg?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Tánaiste proceed?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Our priority here should be the people who are out of work for whom we need to find employment.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hear, hear.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

NAMA has announced a reinvestment programme in its properties of €2 billion, the object of which is to provide 35,000 jobs in the construction industry. That is the start of an investment programme which will be overseen by the Government. In this case it is an investment by NAMA, which will be followed through by the work that the Minister, Deputy Howlin, and the Minister, Deputy Noonan, have been doing to bring forward a package of proposals to re-stimulate the economy. On top of that, we have the plans and proposals which are being developed at a European level, all of which will help to provide employment, investment in this country and get people back to work. That is what it is all about. It is about firm proposals and firm activity to provide employment. The announcement made by NAMA yesterday of €2 billion is aimed at providing 35,000 jobs in the construction industry, a sector of the economy that was most severely hit by the recession.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This morning the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach gave categorical assurances that there would be no changes to the austerity treaty on which the people are being asked to vote this day week. Did the Government argue for no changes or did it just meekly accept that no changes would occur in the treaty text, which will enshrine harsh fiscal rules in international law in which we are being asked to give constitutional protection?

Michael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is European law-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Deputy please allow a question be asked without interruption?

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He should make up his mind. Throw him out.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not need any help from the Deputy either. Deputy Ó Caoláin, please proceed.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is Deputy Ó Caoláin for or against it?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy is trying to make his case. Will the Deputy please allow him to do so without interruption?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is not only that there will be no changes in the treaty text but what of the rules it seeks to enshrine in international law and, constitutionally, what will happen after the event? We will have no means of changing those in the future if our worst fears prove well founded. That is my question to the Tánaiste because he must realise this is the last opportunity for an exchange on the floor of this House before we go to the polls next week and we must have respect for both views that have been well articulated in recent weeks. What if the fears of so many citizens prove to be well grounded? How does the Tánaiste see us making our way back out of such a mess? Let us recognise that this carefully crafted German engineered text has only one gear. There is no reverse.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Thank you, Deputy.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The steering is locked; it cannot turn right or left. We are heading straight for whatever lies ahead in terms of the consequences. How does the Tánaiste anticipate dealing with the consequences if the worst, well grounded and well articulated fears of the Irish people in all 43 constituencies have a sound basis? What will he do then?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

First, the text of the treaty is not changed and will not change. Some who are arguing for a "No" vote in the referendum have been suggesting that somehow the treaty would change. It will not change and that is absolutely clear, arising from yesterday's meeting in Brussels.

The Deputy asked how I see us getting out of the economic mess we are in and I am very happy to tell him.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Post a "Yes" vote.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Yes, post a "Yes" vote.

First, we must ensure there is stability and certainty for the currency. We have seen much volatility with regard to the euro over a period of time and it is not in the interests of the people of the country that this volatility continues. The euro must settle down and we must have a stable currency. It is our currency and this stability is necessary to underpin confidence among investors who create jobs here. Our way out of the economic difficulty is to create jobs and get the economy to grow. The passing of the stability treaty will provide this confidence for investors, and since the beginning of this year we have seen a series of job announcements made by some of the biggest multinationals in the world who are coming here to invest. We want to continue this flow of inward investment to the country and the creation of jobs here. These investors must have certainty about the euro and Ireland's relationship with it. This is why we need a "Yes" vote this day week.

The stability treaty is not the only instrument and means to get our economy to recover. This is why we need a growth agenda and why setting down a clear agenda for Europe's economic growth at yesterday's meeting was so important. A range of issues will be worked on between now and the June summit meeting. These issues include using structural funds from throughout the European Union which have not been drawn down and spent, particularly to address youth unemployment. Another issue is capital for the European Investment Bank so funding will be available for the type of programmes we want to advance in this country and on which the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, has been working to re-stimulate our domestic economy. There are also issues the European Union can address in any event, such as the completion of international trade agreements outstanding for sometime with countries such as Canada and Japan. These need to be completed to enable the European economy to grow.

A number of steps towards economic recovery must be taken. We will pass the stability treaty this day week; get the euro to stabilise; underpin investor confidence in the country; and have a growth agenda in Europe and a stimulus agenda here. The critical issue is having access to emergency funding, should we ever need it, and the insurance policy that goes with this which in turn underpins investor confidence. This is the route to economic recovery and the route which the Government recommends. I have not heard a credible alternative to this strategy from the Deputy or Sinn Féin.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Once again the Tánaiste did not answer the question, which is the pattern of his performance here and that of the Taoiseach. We are locking ourselves into a situation in terms of international law and constitutional protection of these harsh fiscal measures. It has already been stated that irrespective of the complexion of a future government, it will not have the ability to reverse from the situation we will find ourselves in post a "Yes" vote next week. The Tánaiste has not addressed the worst-case scenario in terms of the fears expressed by so many people. Again he trundled out the arguments as he sees them in support of a "Yes" position. He has not used the opportunity to give a response to the questions I put to him.

At the so-called emergency summit yesterday what proposals did he and the Taoiseach put before the other member state representatives on jobs, growth and stimulus? What specific proposals did the Government representatives put forward with regard to youth unemployment about which the Tánaiste spoke this morning on "Morning Ireland"? Will the Tánaiste outline for us what presentation he made, or was it the case, as often times appears, that we were but a listening ear as others put forward their respective positions? The summit yesterday and this morning considered youth unemployment, as the Tánaiste termed it this morning-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Thank you Deputy. We are way over time.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He failed to reflect on the fact that 1,500 of our young people leave these shores every week. What has the Tánaiste done to meet the demand of his affiliated trade union, SIPTU, to meet its particular stimulus demands?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy is way over time and should please ask a question and sit down.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He has not even been able to bring them on board his campaign platform in this regard. He has failed even to convince those who are closely aligned to him. The only position to ensure the Irish people's interests going forward is a solid "No" vote rejection of the proposals on next Thursday, 31 May.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Sinn Féin is wrong in several respects. The passing of the treaty will ratify an agreement under which we will write into our domestic law budgetary discipline measures as part of the fiscal responsibility legislation. Sinn Féin is also wrong in its assertion that the Government had been in listening mode and did not make proposals. In fact it was the Government as far back as last year which argued for a growth agenda in Europe and put it on the agenda. I am delighted-----

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What did you put on the table last evening?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Sorry-----

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I already listed a number of issues we put on the table.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Last evening.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will give a number of specifics. We argued that project bonds should not be confined to major-----

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They will not apply to us as things stand.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy asked the questions.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He does not want to hear the answers.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If he asks a question he should at least-----

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is rhetoric.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There is a time limit on this, thank you.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are giving Deputy Ó Caoláin the specifics.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy asked a question and accused me of not answering it and when I attempt to answer he keeps interrupting me.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Censorship.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This applies to our unemployment.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This is typical Sinn Féin. It has been wrong so many times. It was wrong, for example, when it voted for the bank bailout.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

At the time, Deputy Ó Caoláin stated Sinn Féin members will support-----

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

No, you are the people who voted for the bank bailout and have implemented it time after time, to your shame.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy does not like to hear it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Sorry, would you please-----

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy has been wrong. Sinn Féin has been wrong. The Deputy stated Sinn Féin Members would support the Minister in the passage of the legislation. He was wrong then and he is wrong now.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I ask the Tánaiste's colleagues what if he is wrong. What will happen then? He has no answer.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

His colleague, Deputy Doherty, stated Sinn Féin supported the Bill because it was in the national interest. Sinn Féin was wrong then and it is wrong now.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Tánaiste will not be able to reverse it.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Sinn Féin was wrong about the bank bailout and Sinn Féin its wrong about the stability treaty.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Do not worry about Sinn Féin. We will worry about Sinn Féin. I am asking the Tánaiste in the interest of the Irish people.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I ask Deputy Ó Caoláin to respect the Chair.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He cannot take it. He can only give it.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Deputy Ó Caoláin asked questions and accused me of not answering them-----

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Tánaiste has not done so.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----but he interrupts every attempt I make to answer them. He has interrupted me approximately ten times since I started answering the questions. I will tell him what we put on the table.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Answer.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We have put on the table that project bonds should be used for projects and proposals in this country. We put on the table that funding through the increased capital funding through the European Investment Bank should be made available for a stimulus package in this country and the Minister, Deputy Howlin, has been in discussions with the European Investment Bank and the European Commission on this.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

With regard to stimulus packages for this country it is not about what we will announce in the future as we are already seeing it take shape. The NAMA announcement of €2 billion-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There the Tánaiste goes again.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----to employ 35,000 people in the redevelopment of NAMA properties will stimulate activity in the construction industry and get people back to work. Structural funds which have not been used in the European Union need to be used to address the problems of youth unemployment. Measures are now on the European agenda and being worked on because this country and the Government put them there.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is not an agenda we need, it is action here at home and it is in the Tánaiste's gift.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are seeing progress being made and Sinn Féin cannot take it because all Sinn Féin can do is talk down what is happening and talk down this country.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am sick and tired of Sinn Féin taking every opportunity to talk down this country, to talk down the people of this country and to talk down the opportunities that should be there for them for employment.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

You applied a good template. You wrote the script.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

All rhetoric and nonsense.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Are they treasonous?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I call for silence please.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister for Health talks about money following the patient in our health services and the Labour Party claims to have a policy of providing universal health care to ensure everybody receives timely treatment, but in recent months a policy has emerged in the Dublin hospitals that is preventing seriously ill patients from receiving treatment. Patients from outside Dublin are being refused treatment because they do not live in the catchment area of the hospitals. One young woman from County Donegal has been refused treatment in St. Vincent's University Hospital. The hospital removed a spinal stimulator from her back to carry out an MRI scan and now refuses to replace it. This is specialist treatment that can only be provided in this hospital. This policy is being implemented in all the Dublin hospitals. It appears that the hospitals are not being paid by the HSE for these treatments because the patients live in a certain part of the country. Is this the type of health care we can expect from the Government and is this the type of treatment people can look forward to under Labour's way?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Government is reforming our health services and in particular reforming the way in which our hospitals are-----

A Deputy:

Closing.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

------operating. The key to reform of the health service is the development of an effective primary care system. Already this year we have allocated a significant amount of money for the start of the development of the primary care centres. Work is proceeding with the development of those centres, the objective of which is to ensure that people get care quickly at the first opportunity. Alongside that a programme of reform is taking place in our hospital system which will result in a more efficient and effective use of our hospital resources, and reduce waiting lists to ensure people get access to the treatment and procedures they need without having to wait for long periods of time or experiencing cancellations. I am not familiar with the particular case the Deputy raised, but if he lets me have its details, I would be happy to ask the Minister for Health to respond directly to him on it.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I was not asking about primary care - these treatments cannot take place in a GP's surgery. These are vital treatments on which patients depend and they are being refused simply because they do not live in Dublin. It is being done as a cost-saving measure within the HSE and the hospitals. This is how the hospitals are reducing waiting lists and seems to be how the Government wants to achieve a reduction in waiting lists. I have given just one example, but there are many examples from throughout the country as my colleagues in the Technical Group can confirm. The Government needs to give a direction that hospitals in Dublin that provide specialist care on which people throughout the country depend must not refuse people simply because they do not come from Dublin. Patients must get their treatment in a timely way.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would not disagree with the Deputy at all. People who present for care should be treated.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Then make sure it happens.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

As I have said already, if the Deputy gives me the details of the case he is raising-----

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What about the other cases?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----or other similar cases-----

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is not about individual cases - it is about policy across the board.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hospital care and medical care in general come down to the individual at the end of the day. If the Deputy lets me have the details of the case he is raising and any other cases that may exist, I can ask the Minister for Health to address them. On the general issue of the reform of the health service and reform of the hospital services, a roadmap has been agreed to move to universal health insurance and universal health care, which represent the cornerstones of the reformed health system. Progress is being made on that. It is not the true to say that the primary care issue is unrelated to that - it is very related. We need an integrated health system where the best care is made available to people at the earliest possible opportunity. I do not deny that there are problems in the hospital system and in the health care area. Those problems, particularly where they relate to the immediate individual needs of patients, are issues that are being looked at and will be looked at. If the Deputy gives me the details of the case or cases he is raising, I will ask the Minister for Health to respond to him on them.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

So people will not get care unless a case is made to the Minister.