Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Question 108: To ask the Minister for Arts; Heritage and the Gaeltacht the efforts being made to ensure the protection of our national monuments and listed buildings which are under threat because of their valuable metals; the measures if any, that have been taken to restore monuments and buildings which are important to our heritage that have already stripped of their valuable metals; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21949/12]

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I am concerned about the damage caused by the theft of metal in recent times. This relates not only to protected structures but also to valuable sculptures and other public art works. This is part of a broader increase in the theft of metals from both private and public spaces owing to increased metal prices worldwide. I am aware this is a matter of concern to the Garda Síochána generally. I understand it has established a metal theft stakeholder forum involving stakeholders affected by this type of crime. Staff of my Department have taken part in the Northern Ireland heritage crime summit organised by the Department of the Environment for Northern Ireland to share information and experience in dealing with the broader issues around heritage crime, including tackling metal theft.

It is important to get a clear picture of the scale of this threat in respect of protected structures. My Department will be issuing a circular shortly to all planning authorities outlining specific advice on the approach to be taken to address instances of criminal damage to protected structures. The circular will also request that each authority maintain a record of details of any known acts of criminal damage and vandalism to historic buildings and, in particular, protected structures or proposed protected structures within each planning authority's remit.

My Department's architectural heritage protection guidelines include advice on the avoidance of theft of architectural features and vandalism to protected structures. However, the protection of the architectural heritage for both protected structures and architectural conservation areas is primarily the responsibility of the owner and for each planning authority to monitor and enforce. The Department, through its structures at risk scheme, provides limited grant funding for local authorities that can assist with the repair of roofs and other areas of buildings which suffered from criminal damage. In these cases my Department suggests metals stripped be replaced with an alternative material that would not be vulnerable to theft.

As regards national monuments, the great majority are earthworks or structures which do not contain valuable metals. Accordingly, the issue does not impact on monuments generally.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Before getting to the question, the Minister made an allegation that I was a serial law-breaker.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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That did not happen when I was in the Chair.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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It was in the context of objecting to septic tanks and now the law-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Minister stated I was a serial law-breaker. What laws pertain to septic tanks? I have not broken any law.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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----pertaining to bog designation.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What law have I broken? The Minister stated I was a serial law-breaker. How dare he. I take umbrage at the remark that I am a serial law-breaker.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I said that in the context of septic tanks.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What law relating to septic tanks did I break? The Minister is a bluffer and I will not let this go. I will write to the Ceann Comhairle unless he withdraws that outrageous allegation.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should address the question.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is a slur on my character.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Deputy to continue with this question.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I will do so. The answer is a load of waffle. How could the Minister read that reply when the country is being stripped day and night? At the Hume Street hospital site, close to the cameras at the Department of Justice and Equality, raiders broke in over a two-week period and stripped the entire roof and contents of the hospital before exporting their gains abroad. Is the Minister saying the county councils and other bodies are supposed to mind these monuments? I cannot believe a man like the Minister would read a nonsensical answer like that when his Government voted down a Private Member's Bill that I tabled for discussion six weeks ago. Many of the speakers in Fine Gael, Labour, Fianna Fáil, Independents and other sides of the House were aware of the significant problem of theft of scrap metal, not only from private buildings but from public monuments as well. A further fallacy told by the officials is that most monuments are structures; all of these have a lead lightning conductor for protection, and they are being raped and plundered. It is time the Minister's officials, the Garda and everybody else woke up and faced facts. I would be delighted if the Air Corps supplied aeroplanes to help catch these robbers rather than catching the ordinary people of Ireland who are trying to keep themselves warm by cutting some turf.

The ICMSA, the Georgian Society, Muintir na Tíre and many other bodies have lobbied about this issue. Under our eyes our national structures are being plundered. We are putting up new structures with the 1% for arts schemes across the country in conjunction with road and other projects. They are being taken down every night. The Minister has come in with this answer but he should do more research rather than accept that waffle. The figures hold the proof. The Minister has made disgraceful allegations about another Deputy, which is unbecoming. He has not heard the last of it.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McGrath came to the House to interrupt and heckle me. I responded in-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I did not interrupt.

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy made a political charge.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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-----that context. It was a political comment.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Deputy's party has never made political comments. They got away with it.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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It was made in the context of his attitude towards septic tanks-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Those opposite will see political charges in the next few weeks.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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-----and turf cutting.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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They will get it up the yard.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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They are sensitive issues. The comment concerned that alone.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Is the Minister withdrawing it?

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I commented in that context.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Will he withdraw it?

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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No. It was in the context of septic tanks.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What law relating to septic tanks was broken?

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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We are dealing with the question and we are running out of time.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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There is no law because the Minister has not published guidelines.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy was advocating it.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Advocating what? Was it breaking the law?

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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That people would not pay for septic tanks.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Sorry?

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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He was advocating that people would not-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Why should they pay when the Government cannot get their house in order?

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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We can.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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We are dealing with the question in hand.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Minister is not withdrawing the comment. I will complain to the Ceann Comhairle.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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With regard to the question, I agree with Deputy McGrath about the structures at risk.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Government voted down my Bill.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I am glad the Deputy raised the issue as there are a number of instances where I have received direct observations. We know the lead was taken from the bandstand in the Phoenix Park.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is happening in every parish in the country.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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Sculpture by Sandra Bell was removed from her own property. Lead was taken from St. Michael's Church in Inchicore. Deputy Catherine Byrne brought that to my attention. Lead and copper was taken from the roof of that church and, as a result, the building was damaged. The 1% for arts scheme is a good scheme but a number of sculptures and ornamental works produced under it have been taken. It is difficult to prevent this. More vigilance is needed with more people watching out. I agree with Deputy Mattie McGrath this is a problem and we will have to address it.