Dáil debates
Thursday, 29 March 2012
Order of Business
10:30 am
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is proposed to take No. 8, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2012; No. 14, statements on the Final Report of the Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain Planning Matters and Payments (resumed); and No. 1, Construction Contracts Bill 2010 [Seanad] - Second Stage.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) in relation to No. 8: (i) the proceedings shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour; and (ii) the speech of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; and (2) the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 18 April 2012.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8 agreed?
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not agreed. This matter refers to a capital carry-over of €114 million. As the Minister is aware, this matter was to go to the sub-committee on public expenditure and reform. I have no idea why proper procedure has not been followed in this instance. It is a considerable sum of money. It needs proper scrutiny by the Dáil and that should happen in committee.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The normal procedure is that the Dáil takes precedence over any committee and certainly over any sub-committee of a committee. The fact that it is being debated in the full House and open to any Dáil Member to participate in underscores the importance of the issue.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am not satisfied with that response. The matter going to committee does not prevent it coming back to the Dáil.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate. My hands are tied by Standing Orders.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government is not following proper procedures on this matter.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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In addition to endorsing Deputy McDonald's comments, while it is reasonable to say the matter will be discussed here in the Dáil and that the Dáil takes precedence, the problem is that the structure of the debate is such that we will not be able to properly scrutinise the different items. We should be able to ask questions about the specific carry-overs from particular Departments-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Not if we just have a set-piece speech. That is what we have - a set-piece speech. There is no interaction.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Any questions put during the course of the debate will be responded to by the Minister of State.
11:00 am
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 18 April 2012, agreed to?
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not agreed.
Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad the Minister is open. I have no intention of playing the usual game on this one but I have a very straightforward valid question for the Minister. Will he assure the House and the people that the suspension of the Dáil until 18 April will not result in any delay in the passage of any important Government legislation on any issue?
On behalf of my party, I state we are perfectly prepared to return next week-----
Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----if the Minister is willing to accept our legislation to provide for an extension of time on the household charge. In his response the Minister might also address the issue of the implications for Dáil sittings of the referendum being held on 31 May. The Dáil was due to sit right up to this date and not sit the following week. In consideration of the motion before us today, the Minister might take the opportunity to advise the House on these arrangements as it may be a factor in how people decide.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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As was discussed earlier, we are within days of the cut-off point for the payment of the Government's household charge, which 70% of citizens have not yet paid. Yesterday, a colleague of mine in a spirit of constructive engagement with the Government published a Bill to repeal the charge-----
Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Absolute hypocrisy from Sinn Féin.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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We like to be helpful.
Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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You are paying it in the North.
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Did you pay it?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not having a debate. We are hearing the reasons that the Dáil should-----
Noel Coonan (Tipperary North, Fine Gael)
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The new form of republicanism: pay the Crown but not the Republic.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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While I understand a recess is necessary, not least for family reasons, a long recess will coincide with this issue and, if I might say, with any prospective deal we are told the Government has on the promissory note. I do not know about the Minister, but I do not believe this should be announced at a Fine Gael Ard-Fheis. It would be more appropriate for such an announcement to be made in the Dáil and for there to be a debate on it.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I never engage in the farcical gameplaying that goes on generally when an adjournment of the Dáil is proposed.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I assure those sections of the media who will misreport it that I certainly have enough to keep me going over the next few weeks-----
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We do not need scripts like you.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----to serve my constituents and the people of the country who will have me as busy as I have been for the past three months.
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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You are never in Dublin.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I propose to the Government a variation whereby before the adjournment today it allows two issues to be dealt with. With regard to the household tax, the Minister, Deputy Hogan, has wisely cancelled his trip to Paris. Perhaps he was afraid of tripping over a guillotine, not there but when he came back in two or three days time. The fact is-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is about the Dáil adjourning.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----there is a misrepresentation of the reality and the real figures and the Minister must confirm this.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, we are not having a debate on this.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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A total of 1.8 million households are due to register-----
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----not 1.6 million-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy please, I ask you to respect the Chair.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The other issue I wish to raise is that another multinational company, Game, has peremptorily shut up shop and left workers-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have granted the Deputy a Topical Issue on this matter.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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In that case I will rest it there but-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Can I get one too?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He cannot get a lollipop or anything.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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We will get you a PlayStation or an Xbox.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The children are a bit rowdy this morning and one must forgive them.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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We will put Pacman on it for him.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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This is the third time in almost as many months that workers have been disgustingly treated like this and legislative provisions are needed -----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We can discuss all of this on Topical Issues.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I ask the Minister to reply.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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With regard to Deputy Michael McGrath's questions, the sitting sequence is a matter for discussion and will not simply be determined by the Government side. I understand the Government Whip would like to engage with all parties and Independent Deputies in the House to ensure general agreement on the sequencing of the sittings between now and the referendum day. I assure the Deputy the two week break will not impact on the legislative schedule.
To respond to Deputy McDonald, I welcome all useful suggestions, legislative and otherwise, from any side of the House. The repeal of the household charge, I am afraid, is not particularly useful because it would leave €160 million-----
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Not to you perhaps.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Neither to me nor the Government because of the €160 million required to fund local services for the hundreds of thousands of people who depend on them.
With regard to the announcement on the promissory note, from my perspective and the perspective of those of us in government who have been working on substantially altering the terms of the agreement entered into by our predecessors, wherever it is announced it will be a very welcome announcement.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There are those who do not wish success for the State. For political reasons they would prefer that we did not succeed-----
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Speculators and the financial institutions.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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-----and want constantly to badmouth the progress this economy has made step-by-step over the past 12 months.
I agree entirely with Deputy Higgins on the traditional gameplaying on these issues. Like him and all Members of the House, I have plenty to occupy myself fully for the next couple of weeks.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There was a big sigh of relief over there.
Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise a number of issues.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask those who wish to leave the Chamber to do so quietly so Deputy Michael McGrath can make his point.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Ceann Comhairle-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Alright Deputy, we are not going anywhere. You need not worry. Give Deputy McGrath a chance and then I will call others.
Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise a number of issues. Last night, we had the unusual but welcome development of all parties, and even non-party Deputies, agreeing to an Opposition Bill from Fianna Fáil which will allow the Financial Services Ombudsman to publish the complaint records of individual financial services providers. I wish to take this opportunity to thank the Government for supporting the Bill and to urge it to move quickly to ensure the legislation is enacted without any delay. It is manifestly in the public interest and I hope it can be brought into effect as quickly as possible.
I have questions on a number of Bills. The industrial and provident societies and friendly societies (miscellaneous provisions) Bill will introduce a number of regulatory changes and improvements for co-operatives. When is it expected we will take this? When will the statutory central register of credit histories, which will aid banking supervision and support better lending, be taken? When is the climate change Bill expected? Is it progressing or is it being stalled by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy asked a number of questions. The Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland (Amendment) Bill 2011, which is a Private Members' Bill, was discussed at Cabinet. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, is supportive of it being enacted and I am sure that will be facilitated. I understand that the Bill may require some tweaking but that will be worked on.
As regards the other legislation, the industries and friendly societies Bill is expected mid-year, the statutory central register of credit histories Bill will be published later in the year and a date has not yet been fixed for the climate change Bill.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday, the State, under emergency legislation to recapitalise Permanent TSB, purchased Irish Life for €1.3 billion, which is approximately eight times the amount it expects to raise from the household charge and almost half the amount it expects to gain through the sale of State assets.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy. This is the Order of Business.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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At what point does the Minister for Finance propose to debate this matter in the Dáil? Such decisions should in future be debated in this House prior to billions of euros of taxpayers' money being ploughed into the banks.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Recapitalisation of the banks was debated at length a year ago when the PCAR numbers were published.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The acquisition of Irish Life was not.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Let me explain. It was estimated at that stage that the recapitalisation would be of the order of €35 billion. The final amount is considerably less than that because of the actions of Government, in particular, the deleveraging of non-core assets of the banks.
As regards purchase of Irish Life, the Deputy will be aware that it had been intended to use the sale of the insurance arm of Irish Life to recapitalise the banking element of Irish Life & Permanent although not because of the intrinsic value of Irish Life, which has maintained a substantial intrinsic value. However, it was not possible, because of external trouble in regard to the euro, to conclude that sale. The State has acquired that asset at fair value, the proceeds of which will be used to recapitalise Irish life & Permanent. The value of the insurance division, which is a valuable asset for the State to hold, will be fully realised for the benefit of the taxpayer in due course.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Nine Deputies have indicated and there are only four minutes remaining for the Order of Business. I ask Members to be brief, otherwise I will have to cut them short.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Government announced that the referendum on the Treaty on Stability, Co-ordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union will be held at the end of May. Government spokespersons have on a number of occasions stated that if this treaty is not passed we will not be able to access-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must ask about promised legislation.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am asking about the European Stability Mechanism legislation.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett should be fair to other Deputies. There is only three minutes remaining.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister, Deputy Howlin, will be aware that that is not the case unless the relevant legislation is not passed by the Dáil. Perhaps the Minister will tell us when the legislation on the European Stability Mechanism will come before the Dáil and can he assure us it will not come before the Dáil until after the referendum is passed?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The referendum Bill will be dealt with the first week after the Easter recess. The European Stability Mechanism legislation will be published but not taken until after the referendum.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What is the status of the consumer and competition Bill? Does the Government propose to introduce legislation in regard to the Keane report and, on the economic management council and the Government's meetings with banks, is it meeting in regard to Priory Hall?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The consumer and competition Bill will be published mid-year. As regards the ongoing discussions with the banks, the matters raised by the Deputy are subject to discussion at that level.
Patrick Nulty (Dublin West, Labour)
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When will the offshore gas storage Bill come before the House? Also, will Government, prior to publication of that Bill, hold a public inquiry into the licences awarded by the corrupt former Fianna Fáil Minister, Ray Burke who sold off the oil and gas in this country for a song? We all know his track record.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Bill will be published later this year.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Mac Lochlainn.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I was going to raise the same issue as Deputy Boyd Barrett. I am happy enough with the Minister's reply.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Stanley.
Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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The amalgamation of FETAC, HETAC, the Irish University Qualification Board and National Qualification Authority of Ireland requires the Qualifications and Quality Assurance Bill 2011 to be implemented. The problem is that employers who are providing this training cannot get certification from FETAC. This is also causing job losses. What is that status of that Bill? Can it be speeded up? There is an urgent need to upskill people.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Stanley will be aware that that Bill was published as a Seanad Bill. It is being taken in the Seanad today. Once it concludes its passage there it will return to this House.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I am conscious as we come to the end of this session that only five of the Government's 26 pieces of promised legislation have come before the House. Fianna Fáil published more legislation than the Government, which is interesting. Is the legislative conveyor belt stuck? Is the Minister happy with the productivity of Government and can he indicate what progress is likely in respect of the outstanding Bills?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There is no problem with the legislative conveyor belt. I commend the Deputy opposite and his party on its industry in publishing its own Bills. It is useful that Bills are introduced by the Opposition and accepted by Government, which was not my experience when a Member on the opposite side of the House.
My Department is publishing Heads of Bills to go to Committee. I have already done this in respect of the whistleblowers legislation and will be doing so in respect of the freedom of information legislation. It is part of the programme for Government that we have preliminary debate at Heads of Bill level, which is something we might embrace through the committees.
Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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When will the social protection Bill, which changes the criteria for eligibility to State pensions, be brought before the House? It is stated in the programme for Government that a facility will be provided during the lifetime of this Government to allow for the submission of parliamentary questions during recess periods.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not a legislative matter.
Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Will that facility be available during the next two weeks?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should take up that matter with the Whip.
Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure the Minister will be able to answer my question.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil blocked that for 40 years.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does Deputy Troy wish to hear the Minister's response?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The social protection Bill will be taken during the first week following the Easter recess. The two main pieces of legislation before the House that week will be the referendum Bill and the social protection Bill.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Surely in this-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must ask about promised legislation.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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-----year of the Olympics we should be making every effort to update our sporting legislation to maximise our sport facilities for young people.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What does the Deputy have in mind?
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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When will the sports council and campus Bill be published? It is an important Bill to the youth of our country.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Bill will be published later this year. The heads of the Bill have not yet been brought to Cabinet.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Durkan.
Timmy DooleyBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What is the status of the companies Bill, which legislation was promised for at least ten years by Members opposite when on this side of the House? The need for this legislation is increasingly urgent.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to be brief. We are over time.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Members opposite keep interrupting me.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do not mind them.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I want to reassure the Opposition-----
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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We do not need to be reassured.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Finian McGrath for raising an issue this morning which I raised previously.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the other piece of legislation in respect of which the Deputy is inquiring?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There are other related promised legislative proposals.
Peadar TóibínBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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They were promised by the previous Government also. Would it be possible to select the Bills from the plethora of legislation promised by the previous Government and those proposed by the current Administration on organised crime and to prioritise them? These are illegal organisations.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are way over time.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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They are illegally organised. They are carrying out criminal activities in this country at present. I ask the Minister if he might be able to assist.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is probably aware that the companies Bill is an enormous project. There are 1,270 heads of the Bill.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government should publish the heads.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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An enormous quantum of work will have to be done after the Bill has been published and sent to the committee. I understand it is still intended that the Bill will be published this year. Work on the prioritisation of criminal justice legislation is being undertaken by the Minister for Justice and Equality, who has been very assiduous on the legislative side. Nobody in this House is better qualified to ensure we have the most robust criminal legislation required by this country.