Dáil debates

Thursday, 8 March 2012

Other Questions

Burial Grounds

5:00 pm

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 13: To ask the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government in view of the very high prices charged to grieving families for burials in Dublin and the very few powers which local authorities have to regulate graveyards, his views regarding the accountability of the Dublin Cemeteries Committee, a body set up by a private act of the Oireachtas in 1970, which has opened numerous graveyards around Dublin in recent years, which has developed a considerable monumental stone business and a flower business, which has charitable status giving it certain tax exemptions, which is under no obligation to file accounts with the Companies Registration Office and which does not publish detailed accounts to the public. [12925/12]

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 45: To ask the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government if his attention has been drawn to the fact that the vast bulk of legislation giving powers to local authorities to regulate graveyards here consists of a Public Health Act from 1878 and that the legislation in question is completely of any form of protection for persons purchasing plots in graveyards; and his views that there is a need to improve the regulation of the operation of graveyards in view of the high price charged to grieving families for burials in Dublin, the lack of transparency of the costs involved and the fact that most of the legislation dates from the nineteenth century. [12924/12]

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I propose to take Questions Nos. 13 and 45 together.

Under the Local Government (Sanitary Services) Acts 1878 to 2001, local authorities generally, acting in their capacity as burial boards, have a range of powers to provide and manage burial grounds in their functional area. It is a matter for each local authority to set an appropriate level of charges in respect of burial grounds managed by it.

There are no plans to introduce new legislation in regard to burial grounds. Perhaps Deputy Dowds in his question is getting at the cost of plots. I am not sure what is the nature of his question but he might allude to that.

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I was referring more to the private side.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Okay. In Dublin, the four local authorities operate a large number of burial grounds throughout their administrative areas.

My Department has no role in regard to the Dublin Cemetery Committee or The Dublin Cemeteries Committee Act 1970, which is a private Act.

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister for his reply. This is a difficult issue and I ask the Minister to examine the operation of The Dublin Cemeteries Committee Act 1970, which covers the operation of several cemeteries in Dublin such as Glasnevin, Palmerstown, Dardistown and Newlands, because people have to bear extreme costs when they bury loved ones in those cemeteries. One of the problems is that people do not know what the cost will be when they go about buying a grave. Given that the The Dublin Cemeteries Committee Act applies to these cemeteries, I ask the Minister to examine this matter. I have concerns about a number of serious issues. This body does not publish accounts and even though it is a charitable body, yet it is engaged in commercial activities. I respectfully ask the Minister to examine this matter to see if anything that can be done to ease the cost for people who choose to bury loved ones in those cemeteries.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I know that the Deputy would not be asking this question until he received many representations on it. It is interesting that prices differ widely-----

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hugely.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----especially between rural and urban areas. A single plot in Mayo costs €375 while one in Fingal costs €1,900. The cost of plots in south Dublin increased significantly on 1 January last. A single plot rose from €1,200 to €1,800. It is an expensive matter and it might be a matter for the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation in that this could involve a competition issue.

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In Palmerston the cost of a plot could be €8,000, and that is before one does anything else.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy might send me details of those levels of extortionate costs, as in the case of the plot that cost €8,000 and I will have that investigated.

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The worst I heard was one that cost €16,000.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I support the concerns expressed by Deputy Dowds on this issue. A few people who make gravestones and from whom I used to buy granite told me how unlevel the playing field has become in terms of their having to compete with the Dublin Cemeteries Committee. These people have set up a substantial stone business and they supply the stone that goes around a grave and the headstone. Unfair conditions are at play. One man in this business has had to lay people off because he is not able to compete with those other people in this business. The situation that prevails is unfair and it needs to be examined.

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would concur with that.

Photo of Brian StanleyBrian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank Deputy Dowds for raising this matter. One can buy a plot for as little as €300 in County Laois. With regard to the transfer of responsibility to a separate body which appears to have charitable status, the service seems to work better under the local authority because it is accountable to voters and citizens. The Minister might examine that aspect.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I must admit that regulating the cost of burial plots and burial grounds was not high on my list of priorities. The Deputies have indicated that there is a significant variation in the costs charged. There are problems associated with it. I would glad if the Deputies would forward me examples to back up the assertions that have been made in the House and I will have them investigated.

Photo of Robert DowdsRobert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Part of the problem is that the information only comes out in dribs and drabs. People do not know the real cost when they start the process of looking for a grave.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.50 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 13 March 2012.