Dáil debates

Thursday, 2 February 2012

10:30 am

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The intergovernmental treaty finalised last Monday included a statement from the European Council on growth, consolidation and job creation. It concluded much more needed to be done to deal with the crisis, particularly the jobs crisis. The Europe 2020 strategy was mentioned and each member state is to set out its national jobs plan.

We have yet to see a national jobs plan here even though the Government has announced, according to ISME, the Irish Small and Medium Enterprises Association, its pending publication nine times. This must be set against the promise at the time of the general election of 100,000 jobs coming from NewERA and also the famous jobs fund that was to be set up in a strategic investment bank.

We know we have a major problem in this country with youth unemployment and youth migration. Will the Government set up a national youth employment fund, similar to that in the UK and other EU countries? When will the Government publish its plans on how to address unemployment? Has it agreed to utilise the European Stability Fund, ESF, to support more apprenticeship programmes for young business start-ups?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The jobs issue was part of the agreement reached last Monday at the European meeting of Heads of State and Government. There was a specific agreement that the economic situation in Europe cannot be resolved alone by budgetary and fiscal measures but that there needs to be a jobs and growth strategy. The Government was keen to have this on the agenda and for it to continue to be so. In addition to the measures agreed last Monday on youth unemployment, small and medium-sized businesses and the completion of the Single Market, it was also agreed that the jobs and growth agenda would remain on the agendas for future European summits.

With regard to the measures taken by the Government, as the Deputy knows, we intend to publish a jobs action plan. The draft of it was considered by the Government this week and it is expected to be published in a matter of weeks. Complementing that plan, there are also the labour activation measures for which the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, has responsibility. She will publish shortly the pathways to work initiatives which will set out in detail the measures the Government will take to ensure training, education, job experience, internships and so on are provided for people who are out of work.

In addition, the Government is also pursuing an investment strategy. Next week, the Taoiseach and I will attend an investment meeting convened by the former US President, Bill Clinton, in New York. When he attended the global Irish economic forum in October, he committed to convene an investment meeting mainly of people who would not normally have associations with Ireland. That meeting is due to take place next week and will be attended by both the Taoiseach and myself. Very soon there will be a visit by the vice president of China with whom we have been discussing the possibilities for expansion of trade and investment between the two countries, all of which is aimed at the generation of employment.

The approach the Government will take to the issue of youth unemployment will be contained in the pathways to work initiative which will be launched soon by the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton. The jobs action plan that is being considered by the Government will be published shortly. Funding for small and medium-sized enterprises was part of the agreement reached last Monday. We will continue to ensure all of the European Union instruments available to extend funding for small and medium-sized enterprises are used to the full by this country.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It is appropriate that the Tánaiste raised the issue of funding for small and medium-sized enterprises because financial stability is vital for business. An issue has arisen in respect of Galway Airport that has wide implications for businesses across the country. Last Thursday, Galway Airport had €1.6 million on deposit in a bank account.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask a supplementary question to his original question.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That is right. This is about investment of money. I will explain what happened and if Deputies think it a laughing matter, I disagree with them.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is not a laughing matter.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It had €1.6 million in the bank and its loans were up to date. It was fully within the terms of its loans and the interest had been paid. The bank transferred €1.1 million of that money without notice to offset against its term loans. If that practice is carried across to other businesses, it will have a significant impact because a company which puts money into its bank account can no longer be certain that it will not be offset against term loans that are up to date.

This is one of the covered banks, into which we have put billions of euro to ensure businesses can trade. What is the Government going to do to ensure that the issue is dealt with and that the covered institutions are told in no uncertain terms that the practice is not acceptable because businesses have to be able to function normally and the normal rules of business must apply? I want a specific and clear answer regarding what the Government intends to do to ensure this will not be the first of many cases whereby the banks carry out this outrageous practice.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Deputy Ó Cuív initially asked me three specific questions in respect of the measures being taken by the Government to deal with the jobs crisis. I am delighted that he was so satisfied with the specific answers I provided that he has entirely changed the topic of his supplementary question.

I have read the report on what happened to Galway Airport, which is a privately-owned airport and has its own relationship with the bank in question. It would not be appropriate for the Government to intervene in the relationship between a bank and an individual account holder.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It is the general practice.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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By way of general practice, the Government has set down specific targets for the banks' lending to small and medium enterprises. We have spoken directly to the banks about how they are meeting those targets and we intend to do so again in the near future. In respect of difficulties that arise with the operation of that initiative in practice, Deputy Ó Cuív will be aware that the Credit Review Office of the Department of Finance has responsibility for liaising with the banking system and individual banks and can deal with the kind of issues raised by Deputy Ó Cuív. I expect that if the banks have changed their policies in this area, the matter can be pursued through the Credit Review Office.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Tánaiste willing to ensure a statement is issued today-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should resume his seat. I call Deputy McDonald.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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-----to point out this practice is totally unacceptable-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please sit down.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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-----from a covered institution and one of our pillar banks?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please cease ignoring the Chair.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I am not ignoring the Chair.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I raise the issue of exceptional needs payments, which I understand the Minister for Social Protection is proposing to cut as part of her continuing crusade against families on low incomes. The exceptional needs payment is, by definition, made to families with exceptional needs. Last year, almost 250,000 payments were made under this scheme. Throughout the Government's programme of austerity and its budget cuts, the Minister, Deputy Burton, reassured people that they could always go to their community welfare officers if they found themselves in dire need. Now, however, it seems the Government is intent on cutting even this safety net.

Does the Minister plan to take €8.5 million from some of the poorest families in the State and where does the Tánaiste suggest they go? Does he suggest they should simply present to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul? Is it now Government policy to slash basic entitlements for those on low incomes, remove safety nets, wash its hands of responsibility and rely on organisations like the Society of St. Vincent de Paul to pick up the pieces?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, the Department of Social Protection may make single payments to help meet once off and exceptional essential expenditure which a person could not reasonably be expected to cover out of his or her weekly income. The Department spent approximately €63 million on these payments last year and made payments to 226,000 individual claimants. Budget 2012 requires savings of €8.5 million in this area. The exceptional needs payment has been in operation for some time and the guidelines covering its application have not been reviewed since 1995. The Minister, Deputy Burton, is changing the guidelines to reflect the current realities.

Among the changes she is making is the way in which exceptional needs payments are applied in different parts of the country. Exceptional needs payments made in some parts of the country do not apply elsewhere. One example which was highlighted in some of today's newspapers relates to payments made for communions and confirmations. Last year, 14,000 payments were made for communions and confirmations, amounting to a total of €3.4 million. The Minister's view, which I share, is that lavish expenditure has in some cases been associated with communions and confirmations. I am aware that many parishes and schools are anxious to get the costs associated with these events somewhat under control. As a result of that, she has decided to limit these payments to €110 in each case as part of the changes she is making to the guidelines. I hope that will help to limit the amount of expenditure in this area.

The application of these payments varies in parts of the country. In Sligo, Leitrim and Donegal, for example, only 25 payments were made last year in respect of communions and confirmations.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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They probably do not want people to make communion.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste explained the issue in terms of changing the guidelines when the Government is introducing cutbacks. Increasingly, these payments are availed of not only by individuals and families on social welfare, but also the working poor and families who are finding it difficult to keep the ship afloat. Regardless of the Tánaiste's views of communion, confirmation or any other religious milestone in a citizen's life, a child has to be dressed for the occasion. He referenced those particular payments but the vast bulk of the exceptional payments relate to cookers, washing machines or energy bills that cannot be paid. There is an astonishing contrast between the €6 million in expenses, some of which is unvouched, that Members of the Dáil claim-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a supplementary question?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----and a Government that proposes to take €8.5 million out of the pockets-----

Photo of Noel CoonanNoel Coonan (Tipperary North, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin MPs claim expenses in Westminster without attending.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----and off the backs of poor people.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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What about the MPs at Westminster who do not even attend and still take money?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Can I take it that the crusade of the Government and more astonishingly the Labour Party against people on low incomes-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are over time. Can the Deputy ask her supplementary question, please?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----is gathering pace? I want the Government to reverse that decision and inform the House-----

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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What decision does the Deputy not want reversed?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----that it will not punish-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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What about the £90,000 sterling a year?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----individuals and families who are only barely hanging on. I suggest to the Tánaiste that the people who put him in that seat opposite me-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are over time.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----expect him to do likewise.

A Deputy:

I think Gerry wants to be an MP.

A Deputy:

He could run for Europe.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I again repeat for Deputy McDonald what the Government has done for people on low incomes. In this year's budget there was no cut in the basic rates of social welfare for the first time in a number of years. Some 330,000 people on the lowest incomes were taken out of the universal social charge-----

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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There was a cut to the contributory pension.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I ask the Deputy to listen.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy-----

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government has punished the single parents.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy McDonald was the very person who asked for silence. She should please let the Tánaiste reply.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I listened attentively to the Deputy's question and all I ask is that she listens to the reply.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please be seated. There is a time limit on this of one minute.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Some 330,000 people on the lowest incomes were taken out of the universal social charge net. The cut to the national minimum wage that was made by the previous Government was reversed by this Government, something Deputy McDonald said we would not do. We are dealing with special needs payments, which are once-off payments made by community welfare officers. The guidelines given to the community welfare officers governing those payments have not been changed since 1995. Even Deputy McDonald will acknowledge that much has changed since 1995. There are people who may be in need of special needs payments for one reason or another but cannot get them because the community welfare officers are operating on the basis of rules that are 17 years old. There are other cases where payments are being made in some parts of the country which I agree might be more appropriate where there is a greater level of need.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is a cutback.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are over time.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Deputy should not constantly be saying "cutbacks". This is about using the scarce public resources to the best effect to ensure the money we spend on people who are in need goes to those with the greatest need for it. From time to time it is necessary to change the way in which those moneys are spent to ensure they go to those in the greatest need. Nobody can argue that rules that are 17 years old need to be updated to reflect the times in which we are living so that those who are in the greatest need get the benefit from the exceptional needs payments.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I wish to raise an issue concerning the Justice for the Forgotten group, which represents the families of victims of the Dublin, Monaghan, Belturbet, Dundalk and Castleblaney bombings, and also the families of the Miami Showband massacre. I hope the Tánaiste can do something about the matter. All Members of this House support the valuable and compassionate work of this organisation and successive governments have supported Justice for the Forgotten, which is as it should be. I ask the Tánaiste to continue this work with the victims and their families. When I mention the Justice for the Forgotten group, I also refer to all the victims of the conflict and especially those who seek support.

Has the Government raised the issue of the Miami Showband massacre or the Dublin and Monaghan bombings at any recent meetings with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron, or other members of the British Government? Did they get the message that the Dáil has major concerns over the lack of co-operation on this issue? Has the Government asked them to release the documents they withheld from the Barron inquiries and if so how did they respond? Has the Government informed them that the Dáil still has major concerns about the collusion issue?

There is a major financial crisis at the Dublin office of Justice for the Forgotten which urgently needs €17,000 to keep its Dublin office open. While that is not a large amount of money in the bigger picture in this House, it is to help the families and victims. I ask the Government to come up with a new radical proposal in order to assist it with the €17,000.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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As the Deputy is aware this House unanimously passed a motion on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The terms of that motion were conveyed to the British Parliament and British Government. I have met representatives of Justice for the Forgotten. On several occasions we have raised with the British Government the motion that was passed unanimously, one of the terms of which was a call for the release of all the documents that relate to the bombings. As the Deputy knows, the British Government has not agreed to release some of those documents, but we have continued to press the case directly with it.

The Taoiseach has raised the issue directly with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron. I have raised it with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mr. Patterson, the British Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, Mr. Hague, and the British Deputy Prime Minister, Mr. Clegg. It is something we continue to do on an ongoing basis. In addition to the issues of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, and the Miami Showband killings, we have also been pursuing the issue of the killing of the solicitor, Mr. Pat Finucane - I have been in touch with the Finucane family in that regard. We have also discussed with the British Government the wider issue of the many atrocities that occurred and the grief that many families still feel. I assure the Deputy that we will continue to have that discussion with British Ministers with a view to arriving at a framework or a resolution that will give closure to the families concerned.

I will investigate the issue of the funding for the Dublin office of Justice for the Forgotten. I am not briefed on the issue but I will investigate what the Deputy has said on it.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I thank the Tánaiste for his response and I hope he can continue to help the families. I appreciate that he has met the families and is pushing the issue. Why does the Tánaiste believe the British Government does not want to release these documents particularly in light of developments such as the British Prime Minister apologising for Bloody Sunday and the positive reaction on the island of Ireland to that statement? Many people are very concerned and have suspicions on it.

Is the Tánaiste aware that one of the reasons Justice for the Forgotten is €17,000 short is that Dublin, because of its location, is outside the geographical remit of the special EU programmes body and is therefore excluded? The families have asked me to ask the Tánaiste to seek to resolve this technical problem as there should never be a hierarchy of victims on the basis of their locations. When investigating the €17,000 for this group, the Tánaiste could also examine examples of waste of taxpayers' money including €145,000 being spent on storing e-voting machines and €500,000 the OPW is paying on renting empty offices. I urge the Tánaiste to support Justice for the Forgotten and try to find the €17,000 to support its Dublin office. As they have suffered enough injustice, let us do something to resolve this issue which is small financially but is big for the families.

11:00 am

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is the first time the Deputy has raised the issue of the shortage of funding of €17,000 with me.

Without briefing myself on the entire issue and the financial situation I cannot give Deputy McGrath a commitment across the floor of the House on it other than to say that I will look at it. As Deputy McGrath is aware my Department provides funding for reconciliation purposes and provides support for the victims of the conflict. I hope to be able to continue that funding through this year. There is a system whereby various groups and organisations make applications for such funding. I will consider the issue Deputy McGrath has raised and the question of the money in that context.

I am mindful of the grief, sorrow, loss and the continuing sense of grievance that the families of victims of the Northern Ireland years of trouble are experiencing. This applies irrespective of whether those families are in Dublin, Belfast, Sion Mills or anywhere else. There has been a considerable amount of grief and hurt and this issue is on the agenda in the discussions I have directly with Secretary of State Paterson and those held on a bilateral basis between the Irish and British Governments. We are conscious that the issue must be dealt with sensitively and appropriately. There are areas where we disagree about what needs to be done. For example, one such area in respect of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings has been the continuing refusal of the British Government to make available the material sought by the Dáil.