Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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This is an extremely important matter which relates to the rights of workers in general and those of 32 employees at the Vita Cortex plant in Cork in particular. They have been exploited and denied those rights by their employer. This is the 27th day of their sit-in at the plant. These are dignified, decent men and women who have in many cases given more than 40 years' service to the company. The dispute in which they are engaged is centred on their being denied their entitlement to redundancy payments. I welcome the intervention of the Labour Relations Commission in respect of this matter earlier today. The commission has agreed to engage in discussions with the management of Vita Cortex and with officials from SIPTU to explore the possibility of obtaining a solution in respect of this matter.

It is important that a resolution which favours the workers should be arrived at because this matter relates to them and to ordinary people in general. There is an onus and an obligation on everyone, whether the Government, NAMA, the trade union movement and especially the owners and directors of Vita Cortex, to engage in this process and reach a resolution that ensures this group of people are paid the redundancy to which they are entitled.

There has been a restructuring of the company, asset stripping and a changing of the whole game plan regarding the directors and shareholders in what is, to me, a group of related companies in the same business. The workers in the sit-in have not interfered in any shape or form with the other companies in the Cork plant. Yesterday, I visited the workers, as I have done over the period. Vita Clean is working and operating, so it is important to put on the record of the House that the workers have not stopped the work going on in other parts of the company. It appears that assets have been taken out of the Cork company, including valuable equipment that has been moved to other sites. Despite all of this, it seems there has been a deliberate policy to wind down, close and deprive the people, in this case the Cork people, of their money and compensation. I look forward to hearing the Minister of State's reply and I will come back again with a supplementary question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for facilitating the raising of this issue this afternoon which is of significant importance to many people in the Cork area, especially to the 32 workers at Vita Cortex. All of us representing the area have met the workers and have been to the plant. The manner in which the workers have been treated is absolutely unacceptable and the overwhelming responsibility lies with the management of the company to meet its obligations to the workers. It is important that there is an interdepartmental response from the Government involving the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Social Protection and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. There should be a more proactive response to this dispute. While I welcome the news today that the Labour Relations Commission, LRC, is to hold a fact-finding hearing next Tuesday, this should have taken place earlier and I call on the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to meet the workers and management on this issue.

The workers must continue to occupy and sit-in to try to get their rights. They were assured up to 16 December that they would get 2.9 weeks redundancy which, in the context of recent redundancy settlements and over recent years, is a modest and reasonable request from the workers. I call on the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to meet the workers and the management of the company. I call for a cross-governmental response because although the expedition of the application to the social fund will not solve the issue since it only deals with the statutory element, none the less it will be an important dimension to help the situation in which the workers find themselves.

I do not place the ultimate responsibility on NAMA, but none the less workers are watching bigger fish in the NAMA field, much bigger deals are being done in terms of hundreds of millions of euro and they are at a loss to understand how €2.5 million is frozen. They believe even a part of this could be released to meet their needs. It is difficult for workers in such situations on modest wages to understand the contrast in their perception of how others are being treated in the NAMA field compared with themselves. Will the Minister of State clarify today on the record of the House or, if he cannot, will he send me documentation relating to the legal basis upon which NAMA has made its decision? Is it the case that it is illegal for NAMA to intervene or is it the case that NAMA believes it could create an undesirable precedent to take steps to make a contribution to resolve this issue? The contributions must come from all sides and people must be imaginative and creative to try to find a way to realise the 2.9 weeks of redundancy payment that the workers seek.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for granting me the opportunity to debate this matter along with the other Cork Deputies this afternoon. In September last year, the employer, Jack Ronan, and Vita Cortex informed the employees of the plant that he would make them redundant in December. At the time, the discussions indicated that the employees would receive 2.9 weeks for each year worked, and in some instances this is up to 40 years. During the period from September to December he said that he was in discussion with NAMA with regard to paying out the sum of money which, in total, came to €1.2 million. With redundancy payments having tax relief, this comes in at approximately €480,000. Jack Ronan's liability is less than €500,000 in this case. During that period he said that he was in ongoing discussions with NAMA and the workers. I came to the Dáil on 14 December and exposed this ruse. At no stage did NAMA state it would meet these payments because they were held in a separate account. No one knows better than Jack Ronan that NAMA is not a liable organisation in this case because Jack Ronan employed a financial company some years ago to restructure his companies and in such a way that liability would not travel from one company to another. No one knows better than Jack Ronan that the NAMA claim is a ruse. The fact is that Jack Ronan and his company must fork out the money and pay the €480,000.

There should also be a corporate examination of how this company restructured itself. One aspect of the company, Vita Cortex Cork, claims an inability to pay at present. However, there is also Vita Cortex Dublin, Vita Cortex Athlone and Vita Cortex Belfast and a host of other companies of which the same directors are in charge. It seems the shareholders and directors are the same for all of these separate companies.

It could be that the Department of Social Protection will have to pay the two weeks statutory redundancy to these workers and the Department will meet its obligations if it arrives in that place. Regardless of who pays the money, there should be a forensic examination of the company carried out to establish the interconnectivity between the different aspects of Vita Cortex holdings to ensure that if the taxpayer must pony up, it is the last court of recourse. A corporate structure aspect arises in this case and I am keen to know whether at any time there was any correspondence either from the Department, the union or any other entity to the Director of Corporate Enforcement to examine the corporate governance of this company. I welcome what the LRC has said as well. If Jack Ronan gets off the hook because of the way the company restructured its finances, we will see other companies taking the same model on board to escape their liabilities and the State will have to pony up in more circumstances. It is critical, therefore, that such an examination is carried out. Following such an examination we must consider whether legislation is required to ensure that the practice carried out legally by Jack Ronan in terms of corporate governance is changed. We must ensure that the laws are changed to ensure we do not see the type of skulduggery engaged in by his company to renege on payments to his employees.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this issue. A number of points have been raised in each of the contributions. I thank the Deputies for raising this important matter and I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to respond. I am concerned at the continuing situation at the Vita Cortex factory in Cork which has involved workers at the plant engaging in a sit-in since 16 December last arising from a dispute with their employer over redundancy payments. The workers involved in the Vita Cortex sit-in are seeking severance terms of 2.9 weeks per year of service, inclusive of statutory redundancy, in line with previous redundancy deals at the company, and they maintain this will amount to a total of €1.2 million. We know that the workers had been offered a paltry sum of €1,500 to leave the premises over the Christmas period and they rightly rejected this offer claiming that the company would use their absence to remove important machinery and stock.

The company stated that it informed workers that their redundancy would have to come from the State's social insurance fund unless NAMA agreed to release €2.5 million held on deposit by another Vita Cortex firm on foot of an Allied Irish Banks, AIB, loan taken over by NAMA. However, NAMA issued a statement that these funds were put out of reach of the Vita Cortex group not by NAMA but by AIB two and a half years ago when they were pledged as security for loans. While NAMA has stated that it empathises with the Vita Cortex workers, it has stated that: "unfortunately legally it cannot simply use charged deposit funds pledged against loans of one company to meet costs incurred by a separate legal entity". NAMA also stated that it is the responsibility of the owners and shareholders of Vita Cortex to resolve this situation. It is difficult to disagree with that contention. In the interests of achieving a resolution in this dispute, the Minister, Deputy Bruton, urged both parties to avail of the State's industrial relations machinery as soon as possible with a view to exploring ways of resolving the issues in dispute.

Officials from my Department were in contact with the workers' union representatives over the holiday period, in an effort to clarify the issues involved and to make them aware that the industrial relations machinery of the State is available to help them resolve the dispute. I understand that the Labour Relations Commission has today invited both parties to meet in Cork next Tuesday to clarify the facts and to explore with the parties the potential for moving forward. I welcome the initiative by the LRC and urge both parties to engage constructively in the process. Engagement with the State's industrial relations machinery offers the best way at this stage.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Thank you, a Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this. No employer should be allowed to turn its back on its workers, or to strip away a company so that it can ride scot free into the sunset. It cannot ignore its legal responsibilities.

I know the previous Government restructured NAMA and we are now seeing that the way it was restructured is wrong. NAMA has much to answer for in the wider spectrum, but also in this case. I would like to see NAMA representatives explain their role better. I e-mailed NAMA three times, and while I got a reply the first time, on two further occasions I received no reply.

The bottom line is that I want to see a group of decent ordinary people getting their money and being told they will get their correct entitlement. A whole web of inter-company transactions has effectively stripped the assets from the Cork company, and we cannot allow this to continue.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply. I rang the Minister for Finance before Christmas and he got the Chairman of NAMA to ring me and he said that it would be ultra vires of NAMA to become involved. I would like to get the precise legal basis under the Act upon which it cannot get involved. Having said that, the responsibility lies with the employer. Getting a solution to this for the workers is my primary concern, and I know the Labour Relations Commission is now going to have a hearing. Does the Minister of State have any indication of the pathway to be pursued by the LRC with a view to resolving this? What issues will it raise with management and unions to get a satisfactory conclusion? I know the hearing is about clarifying the facts, but is there a mechanism that can derive a contribution from the employer and a resolution of the issue?

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming into the Chamber and giving us a response this evening. The principal point is that the primary person with responsibility to his workers is Mr. Jack Ronan, as the major shareholder in Vita Cortex. Before any suggestion is made that the State should cover these costs, every stone should be turned over to make sure that he cannot avoid those costs. Regrettably, Mr. Ronan has restructured the company in such a fashion that the liability might not actually be realised. However, on the week the factory closed, a significant piece of machinery was moved from the plant in Cork to Athlone. It is still hard to establish how that machinery travelled up the road. I understand that the plant in Athlone is a separate company, but I do not know if an invoice or some charge was put on the transfer of that machinery. If that machinery was transferred to another plant, it means there is a cost arising from it. I believe the company wants to transfer more machinery up the road to Athlone as well. The moneys accrued from the transfer of that machinery can meet the cost of the redundancy payments. Any income that Mr. Ronan derives from stripping the plant on the Kinsale Road should be ring fenced.

I welcome the LRC's announcement today. The LRC should engage the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement, because there are serious concerns regarding corporate governance in this country, and regarding employers' actions in the future that will enable them to avoid their payments in a similar manner to what Vita Cortex is currently doing.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The ultimate aim is to ensure that the rights of workers are vindicated. We all have that interest at heart. The second aim is to ensure that corporate social responsibility is adhered to and that there is some degree of corporate governance. I agree with the Deputies on the perceived Byzantine structures of Vita Cortex. We must also remember that Vita Cortex was a recipient of State funding. It would be in the interests of this State to ensure that we can shine a light on those companies in some way. If there is a mechanism through which a query can be made to the Director of Corporate Enforcement about the company structure, then I actively encourage people to use it.

It is impossible to say at this stage what the premise of the discussions will be. The LRC extended the invitation just today and I hope that both parties will agree to engage in that process. We should see where we can go from there. Other points were raised in respect of the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation meeting with both sides and with company management. I will take back those points to the Minister.

We need to ensure that the State will use its force in a positive sense to ensure that workers' rights are vindicated. We are not going to rest on that-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If Members wish to raise this matter again after the other discussions have taken place, I will consider it favourably.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I acknowledge the point made by Deputy Martin about the legal basis of NAMA's position. I will also bring that to the Minister.