Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I move:

(1) THAT section 126 of the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 (No. 39 of 1997), in relation to the tax treatment of certain benefits payable under the Social Welfare Acts, shall be amended as respects the year of assessment 2012 and each subsequent year of assessment by deleting subsection (5).

(2) IT is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

The first 36 days or six weeks of illness benefit and occupational injury benefit are currently disregarded for tax purposes. In some circumstances, for example where an employee goes sick and continues to be paid by the employer, the employee can be better off financially on sick leave than when working.

This amendment seeks to remove the tax exemption that applies to the first six weeks of illness benefit and occupational injury benefit in each tax year in order to avoid the situation where the take-home pay of an employee in some cases is greater on sick leave than when he or she is working. This measure is also designed to reduce the cost of employee sick absence to the Exchequer. The yield from this proposal is difficult to quantify, however, a tentative estimate of the yield is €13 million in a full year.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We have discussed many big issues this evening, but this is one of the mean and nasty ones - the Government is taxing the sick, those on illness benefit and occupational injury benefit. This affects people who through no fault of their own might have had an accident and are out from work for six, eight or ten weeks. There was another way to deal with it. If the Government was worried about people, who are being paid through a sick scheme by their employers, not having to pay any tax on the illness benefit or occupational injury benefit, it could have reduced the amount the employer could pay directly to that individual without the need for this House to tax sick people. Certainly more than 30,000 people are affected, and at €400 or €500 each, it brings the total up to approximately €13 million. It is mean and nasty to tax people who are sick. The Labour Party has scraped the bottom of the barrel on this issue.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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Like the previous speaker, I regard this as an attack on those who are sick and unable to work. The Minister said it is difficult to quantify how much it will yield and yet the Government is proceeding with it. It is a direct attack on those who, through no fault of their own, are out of work on illness benefit. It is a disgraceful decision and I ask the Minister to give a more comprehensive explanation of the rationale behind it.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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Not everyone who is out sick gets paid fully by the employer. People need to get authorisation by way of a doctor's note. We are trying to force people to come back to work quicker than may well be desirable in many cases. This is a dangerous measure because it encourages people to go back to work, in some cases when they are not fit for work.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have only one minute and 40 seconds. If the Deputy wants the Minister to reply-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will take 40 seconds.

We need to get away from the idea that when someone goes out sick, he or she is deliberately doing so in order to be absent from work. That was the point made in the Minister's speech, because this measure featured in a paragraph entitled "absenteeism". The purpose is to punish workers who go sick. I do not know what the Labour Party is doing at this stage, but it goes against the very spirit of what the party was meant to be about. It is a very anti-worker measure that brands every worker who goes sick as someone who wants to go on the lang or is deliberately absenting himself or herself from work, which is not fair. People get sick for genuine reasons and there are other ways to deal with absenteeism, but this is punitive on workers.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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I welcome this measure. There is an issue of entitlement to sick leave where employees feel that because an allocation has been made for a certain amount of sick days, they are taken almost as a given right in terms of annual leave entitlement.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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That is a fact and the Deputies opposite should face up to reality.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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This is not about taking sickies. This is about 36 days' illness.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies, please. Deputy Creed is entitled to express views.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows it and should be realistic.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Nobody is allowed 36 days of sickies.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Why is it that where there is a provision, everybody takes that exact number of days?

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy does not know what he is talking about.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputies opposite should be realistic and honest about it.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is a different topic.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Let us have a real debate about the issue.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is off the target.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Halligan for ten seconds and that is it.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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There is an implication that people who are out sick are deliberately out sick and do not want to work.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is what the Minister said.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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What statistics does the Government have-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will ask the Minister-----

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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-----along those lines indicating there are people who do not want to work and would prefer to be sick?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister has 30 seconds to reply.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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My party is called the Labour Party. We are about work and workers. It is an absolute contradiction that a person should be better off when on sick leave than when working. This is an anomaly in the legislation, which we are correcting. This provision will save quite an amount of money. We do not know the precise amount.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government should know how much it will save.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will save €13 million.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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How much?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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€13 million.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I thought the Deputy said €30 million.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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There is an issue in the public service in terms of management of sick leave.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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The Government parties did not see this anomaly when in opposition.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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We have a problem and we will manage it.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government should reform the public service and not tax those who are ill.