Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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As the Minister of State is aware, thousands of HSE staff are facing delays in the payment of travel and subsistence expenses that were due to be paid before Christmas. Staff across the HSE were advised last night that as part of the HSE's efforts to save €15 million before the end of the year, they will not receive their travel and subsistence payments for October and November until the new year. The Minister of State will appreciate that workers are angry about this plan and have criticised the HSE strongly. In effect, workers are being forced to bankroll or subsidise the HSE for the delivery of public services. I welcome the public statement made by the Minister, Deputy Reilly, on "Prime Time" last night. He categorically stated that the budget should not be used an opportunity to take money from people's pockets. He said the HSE should honour its contractual arrangements to pay suppliers and its own staff.

I am concerned about the tone of the letter that was sent to HSE staff and the language that was used in it. The HSE said in the letter that it intends to defer some of its costs by delaying these payments until 2012 "at the earliest". It is important for the Minister of State to be aware of the anxiety that exists among people. Many rural Deputies, in particular, have been advised that there is great concern about the delivery of primary, community and continuing care services in rural Ireland. Those providing home help services and public health nurses are among those who are banking on the payment of these allowances to ensure they can make their mortgage payments for December or put food on the table for their children this Christmas. I ask the Minister of State to intervene immediately so we can advise these concerned people of the response of the HSE.

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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The Minister of State is aware that public servants have been bashed in this House in recent years. When a major public sector entity like the HSE picks the pockets of its own staff, in effect, it is clear that a new low has been reached. If the HSE has its way, those providing home help services, public health nurses, social workers and others who assist the most vulnerable sectors of the community will have to subsidise their employer, in effect. That is not an effective way to run an organisation. It is no way to operate the health service. The HSE, which has been referred to in this House and elsewhere as a dysfunctional organisation, made a bizarre intervention yesterday. I do not think the health service has been well served by the HSE's actions with regard to expenses that were legitimately incurred by people as they served the public interest. Like Deputy Keaveney, I have heard the public comments that were made by the Minister for Health last night and by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform today. As a result of the Minister's remarks, it can safely be said that the Government does not support the HSE's approach. What can the Government do to address this matter and to provide a resolution? What steps are being taken by the Minister, Deputy Reilly, and the Department of Health to resolve this matter in the interests of workers who have legitimately claimed expenses in respect of services provided in October and November? It could be argued that their contracts have been breached.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I thank Deputies Nash and Keaveney for raising this issue. It provides me with an opportunity to update the House on this matter.

The Health Service Executive informed staff and their representative bodies yesterday that it had decided to defer the payment of further staff travel and subsistence claims until January 2012. A sum of approximately €15 million is involved. The €15 million of potential savings relates largely to the expenses incurred during the last quarter of 2011. The executive has undertaken to meet with the relevant unions to discuss the issue, including how any hardship cases that might arise may best be addressed. The HSE intends to pay outstanding travel expenses in January 2012. This action by the HSE must be seen in the context of a possible full-year deficit of approximately €300 million.

However, notwithstanding the gravity of the HSE's financial situation, the Minister for Health and I do not agree with the approach taken by the executive. While several proposals, including this one regarding travel and subsistence payments were submitted for consideration, the executive's board has not approved this approach.

The Department of Health has been in contact at the highest level with the HSE on this matter and has already been in close discussions with the executive over recent months on how the deficit can be addressed. The Minister for Health has repeatedly said the HSE must live within its budget. However, he cannot accept measures to effect budgetary savings which involve a simple refusal to pay staff what they are owed. Such a move is unacceptable. The HSE must comply with the requirements of the public financial procedures. This means it should meet its matured liabilities, which include travel expenses when they are due for payment.

There are several measures being taken that should greatly assist the HSE in achieving a balanced Vote at the end of this year. These include putting forward a Supplementary Estimate for the executive. The details of this are being finalised and it will include provision for a €58 million shortfall in respect of the early retirement and voluntary redundancy schemes implemented at the end of last year. The Government is also considering allocating savings from the health and children Vote, Vote 39, to the HSE.

It should be noted the HSE statement included a commitment that it would keep the matter under review in the light of its cash position at the end of the year. I am, therefore, confident that with the actions taken by the Government and the measures undertaken by the HSE this matter can be resolved. In the meantime, it is essential staff continue to carry out their duties as normal to provide essential services in the community.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for her positive response. I am concerned, however, by the degree of subterfuge adopted by the HSE and the games it is playing with the Government with regard to the imminent changes to the executive.

Would the Minister of State mind if I pointed her in the direction of where the HSE could find some of the moneys? An information note on HSE West, sought by a Labour councillor, stated its overall deficit by 30 June 2011 stood at €47.3 million. However, on the same date the total amount owed to HSE West by private health insurers, such as VHI and BUPA, was €61.1 million, of which €13.5 million was over 12 months old. After 12 months, an accounting procedure will write off 50% of all arrears. Public services are being delivered and subsidised by ordinary working people in the executive. The HSE has much to answer in this regard.

In her investigation into this matter, will the Minister of State establish why are the bad debts of private health insurers provided for when ordinary working people in the HSE have to bankroll the organisation, particularly coming into a difficult time for many families?

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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This case illustrates the dysfunctional nature of the HSE. We have heard commitments from the Minister regarding transformational reforms of the organisation. Dare I say it, we must be careful with what we replace it.

It is worrying that the Accounting Officers and the executive's board were not aware of this treatment of its own staff in HSE West when dealing with a budgetary shortfall. This is more of evidence that the HSE needs to be abolished, sooner rather than later.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The HSE must live within its budget. It undertakes to provide a quantum of service based on the allocation made. It has been made very clear to the HSE that it must bring these services in on budget by the end of the year.

I agree with Deputy Keaveney's point on the HSE's potential to deal with its current difficulties in another manner. There are several examples of where the HSE could ensure more timely payment of moneys owed to it. The question of delayed payments by private health insurers has been raised on several occasions. It is hard to understand, however, the tardiness of the HSE in pursuing those moneys owed.

There are other options for balancing the books at the end of the year. It is unacceptable the HSE should seek to penalise staff due to be paid for travel-for-work purposes by paying them later. The approach taken by the HSE is neither acceptable to me nor the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly. I am confident this matter can be resolved satisfactorily, however.