Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 10: To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the extent to which specific and desirable reforms have been identified by and within each Government Department and all subsidiary bodies state and semi State; the degree to which specific issues have been identified as being fundamental in the context of maximum benefit to the efficiency and efficacy of their respective structures and the Exchequer; the extent to which such reforms will impact positively on the economic situation in the short, medium and long term; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35197/11]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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This afternoon I announced several key developments in regard to public service reform, including the publication of the Government's public service reform plan which sets the basis for the comprehensive and strategic reform of the public sector in the coming years. At the heart of this reform agenda is a focus on five major commitments to change. These include placing customer service at the core of everything we do; maximising new and innovative service delivery channels; radically reducing our costs to drive better value for money; leading, organising and working in new ways; and a strong focus on implementation and delivery.

The plan, which has been circulated to all Deputies and is available on my Department's website, outlines the priority actions and time lines for reform in a broad range of areas such as public service numbers, e-Government, customer service, shared services, procurement, business process improvement, public expenditure reform, agency rationalisation and so on. Several actions in these and other areas are already under way. The plan also focuses on actions to improve performance by organisations and individuals in order to ensure greater efficiency, effectiveness and economy.

The reform plan sets out how implementation should be driven and monitored, including by the reform and delivery office which I have established in my Department. It is planned to have an integrated approach to public service reform which will align a number of key elements, including the programme for Government, the comprehensive review of expenditure, delivery of reform to front line services within individual sectors, co-ordinated delivery of key cross-cutting reforms and the public service agreement.

My Department has been given a clear mandate to drive and enable public service reform and the focus now is on implementing the key reforms required. In this context, the new reform and delivery office has a key role to facilitate, drive and support the reform programme. The office is being led by a recently appointed programme director who is working closely with organisations across the public service with a view to enabling them to drive the delivery of reform at a local level, as well as lead on cross-cutting reform issues.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

The challenging fiscal position which we face means that far-reaching reform of the public service is essential in order to ensure it is customer-focused, leaner, more efficient, better integrated and delivering maximum value for money. Significant savings are already being made by this Government, not least in regard to public service numbers. A reduction of 5,000 is expected this year, bringing the numbers to below 300,000 by the end of 2011. By 2015, public service numbers are expected to have fallen by 37,500 since 2008, a reduction of almost 12%. Once achieved, this will have reduced our gross pay bill by more than €2.5 billion, or 15%, since 2008. The public service agreement implementation body today published a summary of progress on the implementation of the agreement in the last six months, which shows that good progress continues to be made in that regard.

The comprehensive review of expenditure, CRE, has involved a root and branch examination of all areas of public spending in order to determine where resources can be moved from old spending lines to new priorities and how the business of Government can be delivered in new ways. The outcome of the CRE, which has involved input from all Departments and their agencies, will be published shortly.

The process of reform that is under way will create a public service of which we can be proud, building on Ireland's long tradition of service to the public and the State. I look forward to engaging with the relevant Oireachtas committees in this regard.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for his extensive reply. In regard to the monitoring of the ongoing programme, will he indicate the extent to which specific targets have been identified as being achievable within a specific timeframe and the degree to which this will be encouraged and supervised by the relevant section of the Department? Will he also outline the degree to which those specific targets have been estimated to have a direct impact on the economic situation in terms of competitiveness over a specific period?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy makes a valid and important point regarding the key element of reform. Like draining the River Shannon or restoring the Irish language, reform is often talked about. However, the key criterion will be the delivery of our objectives in this regard.

In the lead-up to the formation of the Government, both Fine Gael and the Labour Party undertook careful analyses of the imperative of reform. Both parties came broadly to the same conclusion, namely, that we must have a Department and a Cabinet-ranked Minister with control of expenditure in order to drive reform. That is why my Department was created. Within the Department we have a political reform unit which will deal with issues such as the freedom of information legislation, register of lobbyists and all of the other important political efforts to bring about transparency. In addition, we have the public service reform unit, which is led by a director who has worked largely in the private sector in bringing about change management there. We have set out a range of specific targets, described them and described the target date for their delivery. These measures will ensure our plan is effective.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The centrepiece of the announcement today is a significant increase in the number of workers who will be taken out of the public service. Is a serious analysis being done of the value for money of this measure in a context where agency or contract staff are often taking up the slack in the public service, Civil Service and local government? I have a later question the answer to which I have not yet seen. Do we know whether it is better for the Exchequer in terms of value for money and delivery of service if things are outsourced, done by agencies or contractors? I do not believe there are any figures or evidence to back that up.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am happy to be able to agree with the Deputy - I very seldom can in this House. I disagree with him on his first point. Downsizing is the pivotal point in the announcement. We need to downsize to achieve the payroll reductions we need. I do not believe the Deputy would wish me to start cutting the pay rates of the vast bulk of public servants.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Absolutely. The Minister should increase them.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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A tiny number have very significant pay, but the vast bulk have very ordinary pay. In order to protect pay rates we need to reduce the numbers and do things differently and more efficiently. The reform agenda is at the core of this, involving how to do things differently with smaller numbers. The public service has risen to that challenge, by and large, and is doing things differently by managing the considerable downsizing that has happened since 2008. Greater challenges will arise in the future.

I agree entirely with the Deputy on agency staff. There will be no savings in replacing pensionable full-time civil servants with agency staff. There might be occasions when that will be necessary when there are pressure points. By and large, we need to use the architecture of the Croke Park agreement to move people to fill the gaps and continue to provide a decent service.