Dáil debates

Wednesday, 16 November 2011

Other Questions

Departmental Expenditure

3:00 pm

Photo of Billy KelleherBilly Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 9: To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if the total allocation for his capital budget for 2011 will be spent this year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34770/11]

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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My Department's capital allocation this year is €501 million. This allocation is assigned to eight subheads of which the schools building programme and investment in higher education are the largest. At the end of October, €367 million or almost 75% of the allocation was expended. In terms of the overall allocation 83% is assigned to the school building programme and at the end of October this programme was €5m ahead of profile. The balance will be fully expended by year end. I have also agreed with my colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, that the outturn for capital expenditure will be close to €530 million and that the increased capital expenditure will be funded by savings found elsewhere in my Department.

The spend includes the €28 million primary schools minor works grant for the 2011-12 school year.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister's statement that the capital budget will be spent, and overspent. With the savings he is able to move around there must be plenty of money in other parts of his Department.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It is very good management.

Photo of Seán SherlockSeán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The Deputy is having a laugh.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Certain areas were generously funded. The Minister stated that 80% goes to the school building programme. Is the remainder for ICT?

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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No. In terms of the expenditure, the entire capital programme will be spent-----

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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-----but as regards the draw-down in chronological time, by the end of October, 75% had been committed and drawn down. In terms of the overall allocation, 83% is assigned to the school building programme. There will be capital allocations elsewhere but most of the capital is in the schools building programme. I am sorry. I may not have made that clear. The total capital allocation is €501 million. Some of that would be in the third level sector.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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It is a substantial programme-----

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It is.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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-----and we all know there is a huge amount of work going on throughout the country. The Minister gave approval for the minor works grant. That was a matter of concern to people throughout the country. School principals spoke to me about the importance of the minor works grant and I believe the Minister notified them last week that the grant would be paid for the year 2011-12, which I welcome.

My reading of the public capital programme is that there may not be a summer works or emergency works scheme. The Minister and I debated in the past the value to the taxpayer of the summer works and minor works schemes. I ask him to ensure that provision is made for the summer works and minor works schemes because all of us as public representatives, and the school community in general, have seen an excellent outturn for that State investment. I have seen schools being refurbished and extended under the summer works scheme with a relatively small amount of grant aid. Those schemes have given a terrific return and I appeal to the Minister to continue those schemes if at all possible.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I understand what the Deputy is saying and support his sentiments but we are in a different place now. We have the fastest growing birth rate in Europe. In the first quarter of this year the population grew. New infants born to this State amounted to 50 short of 20,000. I have to start building almost immediately 20 new post-primary schools each of which will accommodate 1,000 pupils when completed. We have to build 20 new primary schools of a scale that the Deputy would not be used to in Cavan. I am talking about 600 and 700 pupils in a primary school. We have to extend the existing accommodation provision in another 180 schools to meet this demographic demand, and I am not sure that we will have enough capital to do it. I have argued strongly with my colleague in Cabinet that this is what we need and because we have had to focus on the demographic cohort which is increasing - good news for all of us - we must ensure there is a school place for every child in this State. We cannot allow some children to remain outside the school system while we renovate and improve existing schools. This is the hard choice I have had to make. I would be pleased to discuss the matter in detail with the relevant committee of the Houses.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I share the Minister's attitude towards the increase in population. We all fully appreciate and are heartened by this positive development. The Minister must obtain a better return on taxpayers' money. A better system for delivering new schools is available. I am sure the Minister has available to him the prototype for delivery in regard to design. Many of the unnecessary costs and blockages have been removed from the system in recent years, which is a welcome development. There is no reason a 600 pupil primary school in north Dublin should not use the same design as a school in south Dublin, south Cork or any other major urban centre. I hope all unnecessary costs are minimised and the best possible return is achieved in the provision of additional classroom capacity.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Deputy may be interested to learn that since June of this year, when I became aware in discussions with senior officials of the scale of the demographic challenge we confront, the Department has completely changed the method of procurement and management. We brought in additional assistance from other State agencies which had surplus professional capacity, for example, the now defunct National Building Agency, with which the Deputy may be familiar. We are discussing with the vocational education committees the possibility that they will act as agents on the ground to deliver work. There are excellent examples of this type of delivery in County Monaghan and I am sure Deputy Smith is familiar with them. We must streamline and speed up the traditional form of procurement between the client, namely, the Department, the patron and the construction industry. The traditional method is not sufficiently fast to deliver on the time lines with which we are confronted. This is the reason I introduced the changes.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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The case in Monaghan to which the Minister referred is a great example of what can be achieved in a speedy manner. County Cavan VEC is also delivering new school buildings for the Department from a delegated function.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Did the Deputy indicate that in many respects he thought Monaghan was better than Cavan?

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I got a few second preference votes in Monaghan.