Dáil debates
Wednesday, 16 November 2011
Order of Business
11:00 am
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is proposed to take No. 15, statements on the Report on Infrastructure and Capital Investment 2012-2016, to adjourn on the conclusion of questions and answers today; No. 12, motion re Tribunal of Inquiry into the Fatal Shootings of Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Robert Buchanan; No. 4, Irish Film Board (Amendment) Bill 2011 - Order for Second Stage, Second and Remaining Stages; and No. 14, statements on the Report by the Interdepartmental Working Group on Mortgage Arrears (resumed).
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Private Members' business, which shall be No. 36, motion re mental health services (resumed), which shall be taken at 7.30 p.m. or on the conclusion of No. 4, whichever is the later and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes; (2) the following arrangements shall apply in relation to No. 15: (i) the opening statements shall be made by a Minister or Minister of State and by the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (ii) immediately following the opening statements a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 45 minutes; (iii) the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (iv) Members may share time; (v) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply, which shall not exceed five minutes; (3) the proceedings in relation to No. 12 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 25 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the speeches shall be made by a Minister or Minister of State and by the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share time and shall not exceed five minutes in each case; (ii) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply, which shall not exceed five minutes; and (4) Second and Remaining Stages of No. 4 shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the proceedings on Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. with the opening speech of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, not to exceed 15 minutes in each case and the speech of each other Member called upon shall not to exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; (ii) the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight, agreed to? Agreed.
Is the proposal for dealing with No. 15, statements on the Report on Infrastructure and Capital Investment 2012-2016, agreed to?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not agreed. We are extremely concerned that sufficient time is not being provided for a debate on the infrastructure and capital investment programme. We are surprised at the degree to which the Government has been resisting our calls for a wider, more expansive debate on these very important issues and on which many Members wish to contribute. A tendency and a pattern has been developing with regard to all the budgetary announcements. The fiscal plan was published outside the House as was this capital programme and the comprehensive spending review will be published outside the House. Despite all the talk of Dáil and parliamentary reform, nothing is changing in respect of these matters of such importance. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, signed that pledge and it was not just a case of a newspaper article. I would like to discuss this matter in the Dáil-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----under the comprehensive spending review which will be announced outside the Dáil. We want more time to discuss the capital programme and Members want more time and we do not want a guillotine.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We agree. We have raised this matter a number of times without any satisfactory commitment from the Government to have a proper debate on this issue.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not understand the objection. This item is not being guillotined today. The Opposition asked for a period of questions and answers to last approximately 45 minutes, as I understand, and this has been provided for today. The debate does not end today; it simply adjourns and it will be resumed at a future date.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Strong on questions or answers.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Members should read the Order Paper.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 91 (James Bannon, Tom Barry, Tommy Broughan, Joan Burton, Ray Butler, Jerry Buttimer, Catherine Byrne, Eric Byrne, Ciarán Cannon, Joe Carey, Paudie Coffey, Áine Collins, Michael Conaghan, Seán Conlan, Paul Connaughton, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Michael Creed, Lucinda Creighton, Jim Daly, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Robert Dowds, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Anne Ferris, Frances Fitzgerald, Peter Fitzpatrick, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brendan Griffin, Noel Harrington, Simon Harris, Brian Hayes, Tom Hayes, Martin Heydon, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Kevin Humphreys, Derek Keating, Colm Keaveney, Paul Kehoe, Alan Kelly, Seán Kenny, Seán Kyne, Anthony Lawlor, Ciarán Lynch, John Lyons, Michael McCarthy, Nicky McFadden, Dinny McGinley, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Michael McNamara, Eamonn Maloney, Peter Mathews, Olivia Mitchell, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Michelle Mulherin, Dara Murphy, Eoghan Murphy, Gerald Nash, Patrick Nulty, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Kieran O'Donnell, Patrick O'Donovan, John O'Mahony, Joe O'Reilly, Jan O'Sullivan, Ann Phelan, Ruairi Quinn, Pat Rabbitte, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Brendan Ryan, Alan Shatter, Róisín Shortall, Arthur Spring, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Joanna Tuffy, Leo Varadkar, Jack Wall, Brian Walsh, Alex White)
Against the motion: 41 (Gerry Adams, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Browne, Dara Calleary, Joan Collins, Niall Collins, Michael Colreavy, Barry Cowen, Seán Crowe, Clare Daly, Pearse Doherty, Timmy Dooley, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Tom Fleming, Noel Grealish, John Halligan, Séamus Healy, Michael Healy-Rae, Billy Kelleher, Michael Kitt, Charlie McConalogue, Mary Lou McDonald, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Sandra McLellan, Micheál Martin, Michael Moynihan, Catherine Murphy, Éamon Ó Cuív, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Willie O'Dea, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Shane Ross, Brendan Smith, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Robert Troy, Mick Wallace)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Michael Moynihan..
Question declared carried.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 12 agreed to?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not agreed.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not agreed. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett, on behalf of People before Profit.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The remark is made only in regard to parties that have a right to speak. I am obliged to say that.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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As I am sure the Tánaiste is aware, up to 40,000 students will take to the streets today.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, no. We are talking about a tribunal of inquiry.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I ask the Tánaiste, out of respect for students who are concerned-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, resume your seat, please.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----about rumours that grants are to be cut and registration fees increased----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat, please.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----if he will allow for statements today so that the Minister for Education and Skills can give clarification-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett, please resume your seat.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am asking about the schedule.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You can raise this on another occasion. Sit down.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On a point of order----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will you explain it to me?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will if you resume your seat. This is a particular proposal in regard to a matter on the Order of Business which is being put to the House for agreement on a time motion. The Deputy is trying to introduce an entirely different matter.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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No, I am trying-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Excuse me, will you resume your seat? If you do not, you will be outside the gate.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat. I warn you, Deputy. You will go.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am trying to raise the matter of grants.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You can do it on the Order of Business. Resume your seat.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I suggest that-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You can do that on the Order of Business.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am suggesting that this different matter be put on the schedule.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat, please. Do you hear me?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am asking a question.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Not about this topic.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Why not? That Deputy was allowed to question-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I do not understand.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will explain it to you if you will sit down.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies, will you please read Standing Orders-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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-----as they relate to the Order of Business?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Following an alteration to Standing Orders, individual matters have to be put to the House for its approval. This is one of them. We are dealing with No. 12, motion re Tribunal of Inquiry into the Fatal Shootings of Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Robert Buchanan. We will deal with any other matters after we have dealt with this.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On a point of order-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is your point of order?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The point of order is that I am opposing the proposal-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----and proposing an alternative.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What proposal are you opposing?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The third proposal.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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On what grounds?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am suggesting that instead-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am requesting that the Government instead allow for statements on the concerns of the students who are on the streets today.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, this is purely a time motion
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not a time motion.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a time motion.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste is going to sign the pledge.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the matter agreed?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not agreed.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 118 (Gerry Adams, James Bannon, Tom Barry, Tommy Broughan, Joan Burton, Ray Butler, Jerry Buttimer, Catherine Byrne, Eric Byrne, Dara Calleary, Ciarán Cannon, Joe Carey, Paudie Coffey, Áine Collins, Niall Collins, Michael Colreavy, Michael Conaghan, Seán Conlan, Paul Connaughton, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Barry Cowen, Michael Creed, Lucinda Creighton, Seán Crowe, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Pearse Doherty, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Robert Dowds, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Dessie Ellis, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Anne Ferris, Martin Ferris, Frances Fitzgerald, Peter Fitzpatrick, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Noel Grealish, Brendan Griffin, Noel Harrington, Simon Harris, Brian Hayes, Tom Hayes, Martin Heydon, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Kevin Humphreys, Derek Keating, Colm Keaveney, Paul Kehoe, Billy Kelleher, Alan Kelly, Seán Kenny, Michael Kitt, Seán Kyne, Anthony Lawlor, Ciarán Lynch, John Lyons, Eamonn Maloney, Micheál Martin, Peter Mathews, Michael McCarthy, Charlie McConalogue, Mary Lou McDonald, Nicky McFadden, Dinny McGinley, Joe McHugh, Sandra McLellan, Tony McLoughlin, Michael McNamara, Olivia Mitchell, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Michelle Mulherin, Dara Murphy, Eoghan Murphy, Gerald Nash, Dan Neville, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Willie O'Dea, Patrick O'Donovan, John O'Mahony, Joe O'Reilly, Jan O'Sullivan, Ann Phelan, John Paul Phelan, Ruairi Quinn, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Brendan Ryan, Alan Shatter, Róisín Shortall, Brendan Smith, Arthur Spring, Emmet Stagg, Brian Stanley, David Stanton, Peadar Tóibín, Robert Troy, Joanna Tuffy, Liam Twomey, Leo Varadkar, Jack Wall, Brian Walsh, Alex White)
Against the motion: 13 (Richard Boyd Barrett, Joan Collins, Clare Daly, Tom Fleming, John Halligan, Séamus Healy, Michael Healy-Rae, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Shane Ross, Mick Wallace)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Richard Boyd Barrett and Thomas Pringle.
Question declared carried.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The fourth proposal I have to put to the House is the proposal for dealing with No. 4, Order for Second Stage and Second and Remaining Stages of the Irish Film Board (Amendment) Bill 2011. Is that proposal agreed? Agreed. As the time for the Order of Business has expired, we have to move on to the next item on the agenda.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, we agreed with the Government amendment to Standing Orders, but it was never intended that the time taken for votes would count towards the 30 minutes allowed under Standing Orders. I ask the Government to examine that situation as a matter of urgency.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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That is very sensible.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not acceptable that Taoiseach's questions are being taken just once a week and that the Order of Business is being curtailed if a vote is called on it, as is the legitimate right of parliamentarians.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If Dáil reform is to mean anything, at least 30 minutes should be allowed for the Order of Business.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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It is a fair request.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I think it is a fair request.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can make a request through his Whip at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Ceann Comhairle is as interested in this Parliament as anybody else. That is not what was intended and it should be changed immediately.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am now moving on to the Private Members' Bill, Advertising-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have to get on with the business.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I had two issues I wanted to raise on the Order of Business.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry but the time has expired. I have no control over this.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Maybe so but I am only applying the rules as they stand. If the Committee on Procedure and Privileges wants to make a recommendation to the House for changes, so be it. I will apply the rules as they are laid down.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Do Standing Orders state that-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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They state the time allowed for the complete order of business is half an hour.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Does that includes votes?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That includes votes.