Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach the progress made on the legislation proposed on Cabinet confidentiality; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32722/11]

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to bring forward legislation on Cabinet confidentiality. [34188/11]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 and 9 together.

The Deputies will be aware that Cabinet confidentiality is provided for in the Constitution. Any consideration of legislation would have to take this into account.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Taoiseach's reply indicate that he will not be bringing forward legislation on Cabinet confidentiality? There has been an epidemic of leaking of what is supposedly on the Cabinet's agenda, in terms of who is doing what. There was a good deal of it this morning, with participants in the Economic Management Council telling journalists how important their proposals are. We even had a leak in regard to the potential resignation of a member of Cabinet.

The problem is that while Ministers and advisers can and are willing to leak anonymously, there is no way for anybody here to ask any questions about it. Even in regard to freedom of information, the Taoiseach has taken a fairly aggressive approach of trying to hide the factual material behind many of his public claims. For example, we were denied freedom of information access to the formula put to the Taoiseach by President Van Rompuy at the European Council meeting last February. We sought that information from both the Office of the Information Commissioner in this State and its European Union counterpart. The latter indicated that the Government should provide that information but it has refused to do.

Has the Taoiseach issued instructions to his Ministers and advisers to respect Cabinet confidentiality and, if not, does he intend to do so? It is not good enough that we are being told in this House that we cannot, with due respect to the constitutional provisions in regard to Cabinet confidentiality, ask questions about particular Cabinet sub-committees, yet we hear every day, in the public domain, about what is going on at Cabinet. This information is coming from anonymous sources, either Ministers or advisers. It undermines Parliament and shows a fundamental disrespect for Parliament.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree that there should be no breach of Cabinet confidentiality. In the 36 years I have been in this House, I have seen it happen on different occasions, with different taoisigh trying to find out what was going on. I abhor any breach of Cabinet confidentiality. However, there is a big difference between fact and speculation. The media in general are entitled to their views, but I have read nothing in terms of the way the Cabinet conducts its business. I welcome that. People are well aware of the broad range of issues that must be discussed and decided upon by Cabinet at any one time or in due course. I share the Deputy's view in this regard. I have advised all Ministers, Ministers of State and advisers that they should keep their thoughts to themselves and that the process must move through Cabinet for decision before, in due course, being announced and the rationale behind decisions explained to the public, as is the responsibility and requirement of Government.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach repeat his response to Questions Nos. 8 and 9? I did not hear it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputies will be aware that Cabinet confidentiality is provided for in the Constitution. Any consideration of legislation would have to take this into account.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That response leaves me no clearer on the question of proposed legislation on Cabinet confidentiality. In an earlier response on another issue, the Taoiseach said that when he seeks information he cannot find it. I am in the same position. The Government's view on Cabinet confidentiality is set out in the programme for Government, which states: "We believe that in recent years an over-powerful Executive has turned the Dáil into an observer of the political process rather than a central player and that this must be changed". Those are the Taoiseach's words, not mine. This is particularly important when it comes to the work of the Economic Management Council which is the driving force behind Government policy on the economy and on Europe. Yet we cannot ask questions about its work.

I will repeat my question. Will the Taoiseach bring forward proposals in this regard? It would enlighten the debate and allow everybody to participate. Knowledge is power. Will the Government make proposals to allow greater scrutiny of the work of Government to ensure openness and transparency?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is what this is for. Obviously as an elected Member, Deputy Adams has an absolute right to ask his parliamentary questions and raise issues as he does as the leader of his party. He is aware that the Constitution did not always have an explicit provision on Cabinet confidentiality. Explicit provision was inserted in 1997 following a referendum. The Seventeenth Amendment to the Constitution Bill 1997 was published by the then Government on 1 May 1997 and following the general election was restored to the Order Paper by the incoming Government on 10 September 1997 and subsequently enacted on 14 November 1997. The relevant article is 28.4.3°, which states:

The confidentiality of discussions at meetings of the Government shall be respected in all circumstances save only where the High Court determines that disclosure should be made in respect of a particular matter -

i in the interests of the administration of justice by a Court, or

ii by virtue of an overriding public interest, pursuant to an application in that behalf by a tribunal appointed by the Government or a Minister of the Government on the authority of the Houses of the Oireachtas to inquire into a matter stated by them to be of public importance.

Clearly, when I say that when I go looking for information in respect of a particular matter that I was discussing with Deputy Martin and there is no information for me to find, either it was never there in the first place or it was done verbally, but the consequences have been quite devastating.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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May I ask - it is not really a question, it is more of an appeal-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is Question Time though.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I will put it as a question. Would the Taoiseach please read over the record of that little exchange between us? The Taoiseach should remember when he used to be over here trying to getting information in response to a question such as I asked. I am no clearer.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The question was about opening up Government decisions to greater scrutiny. That is what the House is for.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I asked for the Taoiseach's plans to introduce legislation on Cabinet confidentiality.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When I bring forward that legislation we will debate it here and the Deputy can have his-----

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Does that mean the Government will bring forward legislation?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will bring it forward in the context of the Article 28.4.3° of the Constitution, which refers to Cabinet confidentiality. I agree with Deputy Martin that it is very important that people would respect what they sign on for and I am quite sure they do. In the general course of events when the public at large know that decisions need to be made on particular issues, speculation always follows, but speculation is different from fact. Fact in this case in respect of the Cabinet leads to decisions. Those decisions have to be able to be debated here-----

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Meaningfully.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and commented upon and agreed with or disagreed with by people elected to the House such as Deputy Adams.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am somewhat unclear. My question asked about the progress made on the legislation proposed on Cabinet confidentiality. The Taoiseach proposed that he would change the situation on Cabinet confidentiality. He was very critical of what he may have perceived to have been excessive Cabinet confidentiality up to now. However, he is not clearly saying here that he will bring forward legislation to change the status quo on Cabinet confidentiality. Following the commitment to bring in legislation on this, is legislation being prepared? Is the Government bringing forward legislative change on the issue of Cabinet confidentiality or, beyond that, is it contemplating change to the constitutional provision on Cabinet confidentiality?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I hope to have discussion shortly with the Deputy and the other leaders about the constitutional convention. Obviously an issue of legislation in respect of confidentiality is a matter that could be considered by the constitutional convention. I have not advanced work to finality on this issue but any legislation that comes forward here will be in the context of Article 28.4.3°. I do not contemplate a referendum on this, but the constitutional convention might like to reflect on the requirement for Cabinet confidentiality except in the cases where the Constitution dictates that it should be breached or that information of public interest or on the direction of the High Court or in respect of a public inquiry authorised by the Houses of the Oireachtas should require that particular information should be made available.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is legislation being prepared now?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Not now, no.