Dáil debates
Tuesday, 15 November 2011
Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)
Programmes for Government
3:00 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the position regarding the Cabinet office that was set up to oversee the delivery of the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32721/11]
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the progress made in the implementation of the Programme for Government. [34019/11]
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to review the Programme for Government. [34020/11]
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to bring forward a new Programme for Government. [34021/11]
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will provide an update in the work done by his Department in coordinating the work of Government. [34071/11]
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if a Cabinet office has been set up to monitor and oversee the implementation of the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34187/11]
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 7, inclusive, together. The programme for Government states, "We will reduce the size of the Department of the Taoiseach, transforming it into a Cabinet Office that oversees the delivery of a new Programme for Government". Arising from this commitment, sections and posts in the Department which had been engaged in work that now comes within the responsibility of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform have transferred to that Department along with some support staff. The total number of staff that have transferred is 27.
A new EU co-ordination division in my Department was also established with personnel from my Department's existing European Union and international division and from the EU affairs division of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, which relocated to my Department. Under the new second Secretary General to my Department, the new division supports the Tánaiste in his responsibility for overall co-ordination of European policy, including his membership of the General Affairs Council and it also supports me in my membership of the European Council. In its co-ordination role, the division engages with all Departments on issues on the EU agenda.
A new office of the Tánaiste was also set up in my Department, comprising three special advisers and one personal assistant supported by 1.6 whole-time equivalent staff from my Department from within existing resources. The office is responsible for co-ordinating support for the Tánaiste in his whole-of-government responsibilities.
A new programme for Government office has been established in recent weeks, comprising of two staff from within existing resources. This office is currently in the process of developing a structure which will allow it to monitor programme implementation and to report to me and to the Cabinet on progress across all Departments. There are currently no plans to bring forward a new programme for Government.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. The Taoiseach must accept that the commitments made to dramatically and substantially reduce Department of the Taoiseach staffing numbers and to create a smaller cabinet office that would have an overseeing role simply has not happened. The Taoiseach's Department is, by and large, similar in size now to what it was prior to his taking office. Does the Taoiseach accept this basic truth?
Does the Taoiseach accept that the transfer of EU affairs to his office means fundamentally that he will answer all questions relating to EU affairs in future since the EU section is now within his Department? Does the Taoiseach accept that he should not transfer questions and that he should be anxious to answer questions on these issues, especially those related to the forthcoming Presidency of the European Union in 2013? Will the Taoiseach indicate his position on this matter, especially as the unit is preparing and briefing him on an ongoing basis with regard to European Council summit meetings?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Martin used to ask me if I was going to reduce the Department by one half.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No. That was the Taoiseach's own commitment.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The programme for Government stated it would be reduced and it has been reduced. There are now 179 whole time equivalent staff in the Department of the Taoiseach. I am willing to come before the House, as I have always done, before and after Heads of Government meetings and I am willing to answer questions in respect of meetings of that nature.
The co-ordination of European affairs is vested in the Department of the Taoiseach because of its overseeing responsibility. However, the new second Secretary General advises the Tánaiste in respect of his role as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and in respect of his responsibilities toward the General Affairs Council of the European Union. The Minister of State at the Departments of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Taoiseach with responsibility for European matters chairs the committee dealing with the preparations for the forthcoming Presidency to be held by Ireland in the first half of 2013. As Deputy Martin is aware from his experience, this is a remarkably busy post with technical requirements. It may well be that the Irish Presidency has to make decisions or finalise several important matters that will come to a head in the first half of 2013, including the possibility of finalising CAP reform.
4:00 pm
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Tá cuig cheist agam agus ba mhaith liom go leor ama. The Taoiseach stated there were no plans to bring forward a new programme for Government. This is very disappointing. Any review of his term so far would show that it has been marked by the number of times he has departed from the programme for Government. The Taoiseach promised to renegotiate the EU-IMF deal and instead he has implemented it. He promised no more blank cheques to banks but a fortnight ago he gave â¬700 million to unguaranteed bondholders.
He promised to prioritise job creation in what he described as a jobs budget, yet unemployment today is higher than when he came into power. Why is the Government failing to implement the programme for Government?
The Taoiseach said this would be an open Government, that there would be change at the top and an end to cronyism. Yet, a review of Government appointments shows 20 people with affiliations to Fine Gael and the Labour Party have been appointed since it took office. Half of Departments are still not recruiting board members by public advertisements and five of the six judges recently appointed by the Government have political affiliations to Fine Gael or the Labour Party.
Sinn Féin launched its pre-budget submission today. I sent a copy to the Office of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance. I urge the Taoiseach to consider the proposals. They may provide a better guide on how to get out of the economic recession. When the Taoiseach has read them I ask him to consider reviewing his announcement that he will not introduce a new programme for Government and do just that.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Adams seems to have missed the point that we have renegotiated substantial elements of the Memorandum of Understanding signed off with the troika. The reduction in PRSI and VAT in the hospitality sector, the changes and restructuring made in respect of the banks and the renegotiation, with European consent, of interest rates have brought about a saving of â¬10 billion for the Irish taxpayer.
We never made a commitment to paying blank cheques as was done before. The State has committed to paying such cheques and we have taken an alternative view as how to reduce the overall debt burden. What happened before was that a blank cheque was signed off without knowing what its extent would be. We now know the full extent of it and the Government has to work with European colleagues and everybody else to reduce that.
The emphasis has to be on creating jobs. I agree that a figure of over 440,000 unemployed is completely unacceptable but one will not deal with that unless one makes serious decisions about the cost, structure and governance of how business in this country has been run for a very long time. These decisions are not easy. The â¬18 billion deficit will not go away on its own. It has to be dealt with by reducing costs, growing our indigenous economy and continuing to have a thriving export market such as we have. As the Deputy is aware, in Greece exports account for about 20% of GDP, but here they account for 100% of GDP and the figure is expected to grow strongly next year.
The emphasis of the Government has been to meet the immovable budget deficit target of 8.6% of GDP next year and provide an opportunity for jobs to be created and for work to be seen to be rewarded. That means serious decisions must be made in respect of a range areas, such as in the structure of the health system, the methods of social protection and all of the other areas where the cost base has to be examined in order to be reduced. We also need to consider the cost of the entire public sector and the way to stimulate confidence in the indigenous economy.
The Deputy wants a new programme for Government. He will not get one. The Government has been in office just over eight months. We are at least entitled to make an effort to implement the programme for Government on which we have agreed. Every aspect of it has not been delivered in detail but I have a long list detailing progress which I could read out for the Deputy if he wishes.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I still want to commend our budget submission to the Taoiseach. If he takes the time to read it he might think it is of some assistance to him. Part of the problem is that the Taoiseach points out the things Fianna Fáil did wrong and then goes about doing exactly the same things all over again. The Taoiseach is trying to sell a very dead fish and it smells. He needs to be straight with people on these matters. He has only been in office for nine months but he is doing exactly what he blamed the Fianna Fáil and Green Party Government for doing.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I remind the Deputy that this is Questions to An Taoiseach.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I ask the Taoiseach to consider that point and the error of his ways. On the arrangement put in place last week, he said in four years time despite all the fiscal and other adjustments we will make there will still be almost 400,000 people unemployed. That is a signalling failure in advance.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not agree with the Deputy. We have not done the same things. We live in the land of reality. One cannot move into Government and change the entire country overnight. In times past a blank cheque was signed off to put the full extent of the bank debt onto the sovereign debt, which the citizens of this country have to pay for. Young people do not have the job opportunities I would like to see them have because of that.
In order to deal with the scale of the problem we have to reduce the debt burden and change the way the country has been run, including cost structures across a range of areas, which requires political decisions. No matter what one does, politics is always about people and political decisions affect their lives. From that perspective, when one talks about dead fish, I do not know whether the Deputy is referring to the famous English lord who gave his greatest insult to his mortal enemy by likening him to a rotten mackerel in the moonlight in that they shine and stink. I know the Deputy does not mean it that way but there are difficulties ahead. The Irish people are well capable of dealing with challenges and the Government will work with the people to get through this in order that young people can have a future in their own country if that is what they want.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have a supplementary question on the Cabinet office which was set up to oversee the delivery of the programme for Government. I ask the Taoiseach to accept no blank cheques were signed by anybody. Everything that was done with regard to engagement with the ECB and EU was transparent, brought before the House and with the full knowledge of everybody.
In terms of the fundamental pillars of banking, public finances or the four year plan, the Taoiseach has signed up and implemented the programme in broad measure. The major fundamental change from the situation which pertained nine or 12 months ago, when the various engagements with the ECB and EU took place, has come about by the acknowledgement by the EU heads of state of the Greek default and the utilisation of the EFSF to take on board some of the recapitalisation of banks in France and elsewhere as a result. That is the truth of the situation. We have not availed of the opportunity to press the case for a fundamental change-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Can we have a question, Deputy?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----in our bank debt which should occur in the context of a European-wide change in the approach to the restructuring of bank debt and the recapitalisation of banks. The programme for Government needs fundamental review in that context. Just two weeks ago, despite all that the Taoiseach said today, the State paid â¬700 million to unsecured and unguaranteed bondholders.
I regret that the Taoiseach is not reviewing the job creation aspects of the programme for Government.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy, we do not make statements. You should ask a question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The provisions for jobs are wholly inadequate. The raid on pensions through the pensions levy was a scandalous decision which needs to be reversed. It was a straightforward raid on the pensions of people in the private sector who never expected it. It has not been allocated to job creation and the Taoiseach needs to own up to that. He has abandoned any commitment-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy, we are dealing with Questions to An Taoiseach. Will you please put a question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----contained in the programme for a Government and that is why I ask the Cabinet office which is overseeing it to have a fundamental and urgent review of its employment dimension.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have a fundamental difference of opinion with the Deputy. The Government of which he was part did sign a blank cheque. Minister after Minister came in here during the period in question and said the crisis would cost â¬6 billion, â¬7 billion, â¬14 billion or â¬20 billion. The fact of the matter is that the previous Government signed a blank cheque and crucified every taxpayer for years to come as a consequence. If one asked Deputy Adams if he would buy a house in west Donegal the first thing he would ask about is the price. Would one put a blank cheque on it? One would not, but that is what the previous Government did with the country. To the eternal shame of the party of which the Deputy is a proud member it signed off on a blank cheque without knowing the scale of-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am sorry-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy, you put a question and now you are getting an answer.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Your party voted for it.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Martin denies that his Government wrote a blank cheque, but that is what it did, because it did not know the scale of the situation and the outcome. That has crucified everybody in the country.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not accept that.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
When I seek information on what exactly happened in that regard, I cannot find it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Martin must address the Taoiseach only through the Chair.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, I cannot find it. The decision was taken in the middle of the night.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was taken here in the Dáil Chamber.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Martin's colleague, Deputy Willie O'Dea, said in the Sunday Independent the following Sunday that he was responsible for the idea and it was a brilliant one.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Taoiseach voted for that decision.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The evidence given by the Government of which Deputy Martin was a member was that there was a finite limit on this, but there was not. His Government signed a blank cheque.
We reviewed and published the capital programme only last week. Some â¬17 billion will go into capital programmes in the coming years. Against all of the recessionary trends we have still managed to provide clarity in respect of the national children's hospital, central mental hospital and a range of other necessary activities and infrastructure. I would love to say that all projects will be implemented but that is not possible. One must cut one's cloth according to one's measure. That will remain the situation until we get our public finances in order and our country headed in the direction, and to the extent, that we would like. We are not in control of our economic sovereignty. The fundamental reason for that is that somebody wrote a blank cheque without knowing the extent of the problems.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is not the reason.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett may put a brief supplementary question to the Taoiseach.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On the fish-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are not talking about fish.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was raised in the question.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy should not mind that.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does the Taoiseach agree with the saying which an old Jewish socialist comrade of mine used to say, that the fish rots from the head, that is, that responsibility lies at the top? In so far as the Taoiseach has put an emphasis on employment as a priority for this Government, in the programme for Government and in many statements in this House since, does he agree that if we do not make a serious dent in unemployment, of which there is no sign thus far, that he will have failed and that he is responsible? What precisely in the programme for Government or in the policies the Taoiseach has enunciated since will make a serious dent on the unemployment crisis and when will they do so?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have called the Taoiseach.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am baffled by the statement the Taoiseach made earlier. Somebody should analyse it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy must allow the Taoiseach to respond.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Please, a Cheann Comhairle, I am almost finished.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
These are questions tabled by Deputies Gerry Adams and Micheál Martin. I told the Deputy he could make a brief supplementary question.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This is unbelievable.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We do not want another statement.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have almost finished my question. The Taoiseach said that reducing costs in the health service - by which I presume he means staff cuts and so on - will improve our competitiveness and is somehow linked to our export recovery. That connection baffles me.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does the Deputy have a question?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How do cuts in health spending help our competitiveness, improve employment prospects or contribute to export-led recovery? It is a baffling assertion.
Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is clearly not a businessman.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is becoming expert at listening to his own words. What I said was that we need to change the structure under which services are delivered in our health system, because it is not working as it should. We must reduce the overall cost of the delivery of the public sector. That is why the programme for Government clearly sets out a reduction in personnel of up to 25,000 for the duration of the programme. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform is working with the trade unions, in accordance with the Croke Park agreement, to achieve those cost reductions.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How will that enhance competitiveness and exports?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am glad that the public sector itself recognises what needs to be done and is working in that regard. Any reductions in the overall cost and changes in the structure of the delivery of health services must be focused on the quality of service for the patient and the quality and capacity of front line services. I do not know whether the Deputy wants to understand that but that is what involved.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What does that have to do with exports?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy should not be baffled. I will be happy to give him further information.