Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 24 and 37 to 40, inclusive, together.

When EU and euro area leaders met on 26 October, they agreed a comprehensive package of measures to restore stability to the euro area. The deal covers all the key issues, including bank recapitalisation, debt sustainability for Greece, robust firewalls to prevent contagion, and improved governance within the euro area. In each area Irish interests have been fully protected.

The deal, together with the growth promoting measures agreed by the European Council on 23 October, constitutes a complete package that will allow the European Union to address the immediate challenges posed by the financial crisis, while also focusing on supporting the development of sustainable growth and jobs at national level. If implemented in good faith and in full, I am confident that this balanced and robust set of measures can provide the basis for a return of stability and confidence to the euro area and, more broadly, the European Union.

As well as addressing the immediate issues of concern, euro area leaders further agreed on 26 October that the President of the European Council, working closely with the Presidents of the European Commission and the eurogroup, would prepare a report for the December European Council on possible steps to further strengthen economic convergence within the euro area, improve fiscal discipline and deepen economic union. As part of that report, President Van Rompuy will explore the possibility of limited treaty changes. The December report is to propose a roadmap for how to proceed. This will, of course, be the subject of discussion in the run-up to and at the December European Council meeting. A further report with proposals on how to implement the measures agreed is to be finalised by March 2012.

The Government has consistently advocated that the first step is to examine what needs to be done and only then to identify how best to achieve it. I am satisfied that the approach being adopted is the right one. We continue to maintain that the existing treaties provide considerable potential which, as yet, remains untapped. We will continue to pursue this point. It should be noted that the principles of conferral, subsidiarity and proportionality remain critical foundations on which the relationships between member states and the European Union are built. I welcome the improvements the Lisbon treaty made in these areas and believe they are working well.

While new treaty changes will not form part of our response to the immediate crisis over the longer term, they comprise one of a range of possibilities that President Van Rompuy has been asked to explore. It should be clearly understood that although a particular treaty change may not have direct consequences for every member state, treaty change is always a matter for the 27 member states of the European Union and must be agreed on the basis of unanimity.

Together with the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and other members of Government, I will continue to engage proactively with our EU partners on every issue in respect of which Ireland's interests are at stake. In addition to my having met EU colleagues on the margins of regular European Council meetings, I have visited a range of European capitals for consultations and will be extending these bilateral contacts over the period ahead.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge that some of this subject matter was dealt with, by way of a tour de force, at the meeting of the joint committees earlier today. The prospect of treaty change, certainly treaty change that may require referenda, strikes fear into the hearts of all those who are pro-European.

I commend the Minister of State on what she said on the need for us to continue to maintain very strong, close and good relations with all our European partners. However, there is much concern among people in Ireland and across Europe about what is emanating from the Franco-German axis. In this regard, I was struck by two statements in the past two days. Ms Angela Merkel stated the political Community will not survive if it is not capable of changing, and President Sarkozy stated there will be two European gears, one focused on more integration in the eurozone and the other on a more co-federal response in the Union. I want to give the Minister of State the opportunity to say that while engaging in the hard work she is doing on this matter, which I acknowledge, she will not countenance, under any circumstances, this federalist type of approach.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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I do not necessarily share the view that a referendum on treaty change inspires fear. We must go through an important process in this country. If there is a question of changing the balance of competence between member states and the European institutions, a referendum is needed. We will engage in this process if or when the time comes. We should not fear this because it is a very democratic process and it enables us to have a very robust and meaningful debate on all these issues.

The proposed treaty change, which we know encompasses budgetary control and making the management structures more robust within this Union, is not one I fear in principle. However, if one opens up the prospect of treaty change, one must deal with something much broader. There ought to be a much more holistic response to how we approach the future of the European project and European Union. In this regard, of most direct concern to us at present is the eurozone. I stated the at the joint sitting of the committees earlier today that we must have meaningful engagement in our own Parliament. Other Parliaments need to engage also. This cannot happen overnight and will take time. President Van Rompuy is very mindful of that fact.

In the meantime, there is an immediate crisis that must be dealt with. There has been much criticism of the very prominent role of the German Chancellor and French President in this regard. I share some of the concerns. Consider the discussion on treaty changes in respect of a reversion to the sort of Community method that obtained in the past, which method served us very well and led to huge strides being taken in European society and the EU economy over many decades. That all happened through the Community method and through a robust European Commission. The European Commission, whether we like it or not, has been very much sidelined in this process. I would like to see the Commission, which represents all member states equally, returning to the centre of European decision-making. This is in our interest as a small member state. Many other member states share that view. Unfortunately, the current crisis occurred in a vacuum in that there was not a mechanism to deal with it. There was no sufficiently robust decision-making mechanism and, therefore, it was imperative that the French and German Heads of State stepped up to the plate and showed leadership. Many of us were complaining for months that there was no leadership from Germany and France. We saw some decisive leadership, particularly at the last meeting of the Heads of State and Government of the eurozone on 26 October and 27 October. That was welcome and I am glad we saw it. It puts us on a firmer footing for the future.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The policy of the Government is to cut the State's deficit to 3% by 2013, thereby returning to us our sovereignty, yet it is now supporting the potential of the European Central Bank to become the central bank and ruler of our banking system. Power is taken from our hands in any case. I would like the Minister of State to elaborate on this.

The policy of austerity will bring all countries to their knees, particularly Italy, Spain, Greece and Ireland. Deputy Shane Ross asked some days ago whether there is a plan B. Are Irish punts being printed? Having listened to Ms Christine Lagarde referring to ten years, or more, of austerity, I believe this must be asked. To what extent is the Government willing to put the people on its knees and impose further austerity measures?

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Does the Minister of State not acknowledge that the main players in Europe and many major economists are of the opinion that the Union, as currently arranged, will not keep the euro alive? Is it not pretty understandable that the Germans and French are talking about a two-tier union? They do not expect to get 27 countries to agree to the sorts of measures they regard as necessary to make the euro sustainable. Does the Minister of State not agree that we must either accept what the Germans want lock stock and barrel or end up in a second tier? I am not saying it would necessarily be the end of the world.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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On the question on the European Central Bank becoming the ruler of our banking system, Deputy Collins's view of the world is very distorted. We have a monetary union that has been in existence for over a decade. The euro is our currency, not somebody else's. It is not in some far-off, distant land and not just the preserve of Brussels; it is our currency and we need it to survive. It behoves the Deputy and every other Member to ensure it survives and to fight for its survival. The consequences of the disintegration of our currency would be unprecedented and unthinkable for the people of this State.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What about the consequences of austerity?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could the Deputy allow the Minister of State to continue? There is a time limit.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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What about the austerity that would mandatorily ensue next month or week if we pulled the plug on the funding coming into the State from both the European Central Bank and the EU-IMF programme? It would begin with a budget adjustment for 2012 of €11 billion. I would like the Deputy to suggest to this House where that money would come from. Who would she tax? Would it be the working people, who are finding it difficult to meet mortgage repayments and pay all their bills? Would it be the people in receipt of social welfare? Would she like to increase bin charges or water charges, about which she complains all the time?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What about the billionaires and millionaires?

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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We need to inject a little bit of reality into this debate.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Tax the billionaires, the developers and the bankers.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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I put on record that the European Central Bank is the solution to the euro crisis. It is our task to convince the German Chancellor and the German Government that we have to relax the rules on intervention from the ECB and we have to make the ECB the backstop for the EFSF to ensure that we can continue to fund the services we provide in this State, pay the people in receipt of social welfare their social welfare benefits every week and to pay the people in receipt of pensions from this State their pension payments. We have to ensure we can maintain that line of funding and protect services. That is the only option. I have not heard a credible alternative option from anybody on the other side of the House in that regard.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We have put forward many options, one of which is to tax the wealthy.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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In response to the Deputy Joan Collins's question as to whether there is a plan B, there is no plan B. We have one currency and plan, incorporating every letter of the alphabet, which is to save our currency. That is in the interests of Irish citizens, Irish business and everybody in the Chamber.

Finally to answer Deputy's Wallace's question-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to be brief as we are way over time.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I did not want to say it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are way over time.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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-----about whether Europe in its current arrangements-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is the trouble about letting people make supplementary questions.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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-----can save the euro, I believe that with more political will and pragmatic decision making, we can do so.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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I have outlined some of the ways in which we need to save the euro and the first is to start with the role of the European Central Bank. I firmly believe that if we can get our act together-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have to ask the Minister of State to conclude.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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-----in terms of spelling out the role of the ECB, we can-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister of State should have put that in her party's manifesto, that its priority was to save the euro.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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-----save the currency. I can tell the Deputy------

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Minister of State to ignore those comments

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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-----that when people go to the ATMs in this country-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Minister. I want to move on to Question No. 11.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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-----to withdraw money from their deposit accounts, they will be very glad that we have saved the euro.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What the Minister of State has said is not what President Sarkozy and Chancellor Merkel have-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Question No. 11.